Early 45nm Deneb Spotted

[Odysseus145]

TechConnect has spotted a 45nm Deneb on a Chinese website. Overclocked to 3.4ghz too.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Holy back in the competition!

 

[bharatwaja]

Sounds promising.... but it still doesnt come close to the C2Qs clock for clock right???
I mean, my QX9650 does 1M SuperPi in 17.6 secs at stock setting and at my current OC it does at about 11.4......
At 3.4 GHz it should do somewhere in between.....
hope AMD gets their architecture right on the money next time around and gives intel a run for their money, like they did to NVidia with HD4870.....
That would be gr8 for the consumers....

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Absolutely! Did you see the price drops on the NV cards!? That would be great for us!

 

[Idontcare]

sPI is rather sensitive to the memory subsystem timings, not what I'd consider a great benchmark to run unless you are positive that the memory timings are tight and reflective of actual capability.

The reason folks like to run it when they have access to early beta hardware is because the runtime is so short that your beta hardware system is less likely to crash within the timeframe of the test. (which is no doubt the reason the test was limited to 1M rather than doing 8M tests)

So even if these aren't faked, and nearly 100% of all sPI runs on early CPU's turn out to be faked it seems, then we still can't say jack squat about Deneb vs. Yorkfield because we have no idea just how crippled this particular Deneb's memory sub-system was for these sPI runs.

 

[bharatwaja]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
So even if these aren't faked, and nearly 100% of all sPI runs on early CPU's turn out to be faked it seems, then we still can't say jack squat about Deneb vs. Yorkfield because we have no idea just how crippled this particular Deneb's memory sub-system was for these sPI runs.

True.... but AMD seems like they're starting to come off good in the GFX market, and some of that is bound to rub into the processor side too.... its like saying....
"its one small step for processors, but its one giant leap for AMD-Kind" or something like that....

All AMD needs is some hope, and it can run right into the competition by just building on it.... I would love to see that happen, real competition would always benefit us, the consumers....

 

[OCGuy]

I dont have to go to a chinese website to spot a 45nm....I just need to open my computer case....like 7 months ago.

 

[Odysseus145]

I was pretty excited about it too, until I saw they had to overclock it to get there. The way intel's going AMD would almost have to release it at 3.4ghz to be competitive (at the high end at least).

 

[Gikaseixas]

looks better than existing 65nm stuff. Hopefully they'll improve it till launch time so (clock per clock ) it can be closer to Intel

 

[bharatwaja]

isnt it the same architecture as the phenoms??? i.e. jus a die shrink of the existing phenoms?? if thats the case, then we cant expect much clock per clock advances if any....

Although, i dont know, i havent been reading up on chip news lately... can anyone tell me, is it the same architecture as the phenoms??

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: bharatwaja


Although, i dont know, i havent been reading up on chip news lately... can anyone tell me, is it the same architecture as the phenoms??

Havent you heard? This whole time AMD has just been lieing in wait....All you have to do is connect 2 of the pins with some bondo, and you can clock up to 6ghz on air.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: bharatwaja


Although, i dont know, i havent been reading up on chip news lately... can anyone tell me, is it the same architecture as the phenoms??

Havent you heard? This whole time AMD has just been lieing in wait....All you have to do is connect 2 of the pins with some bondo, and you can clock up to 6ghz on air.

I hear that won't work unless you have the newest super magical southbridge.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I think AMD's processors have always been slower in SuperPi. I wouldn't put too much stock into the scores even if they are real... for whatever reason SuperPi has always been much faster on the Intel stuff. I think a Pentium M would be an A64 in SuperPi if I remember right.

 

[Odysseus145]

I'd love to see more tests on this. I'm pretty interested in how much heat it puts out.

 

[bharatwaja]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: bharatwaja


Although, i dont know, i havent been reading up on chip news lately... can anyone tell me, is it the same architecture as the phenoms??

Havent you heard? This whole time AMD has just been lieing in wait....All you have to do is connect 2 of the pins with some bondo, and you can clock up to 6ghz on air.

oh man, this is why i love AT..... :laugh:

 

[aigomorla]

now lets compare this to a yorkfield. @ 3.6 aka Neha Stock.

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...igomorla/superpi36.jpg

AMD is in trouble. When they dont have a chip even OVERCLOCKED that cant meet up with a neha @ STOCK.

You guys see now why i gave up on erinyes?
ive been getting a lot more info then you guys are getting. Only i cant tell you guys what i heard.

 

[Gikaseixas]

yes they're in trouble but the situation could be different in the future. I hope that they succeed so we can have some competition resulting in lower prices for everybody.

Look at what they did for the video card market, the best card is no longer over $600, it is under $500.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Gikaseixas
yes they're in trouble but the situation could be different in the future. I hope that they succeed so we can have some competition resulting in lower prices for everybody.

Look at what they did for the video card market, the best card is no longer over $600, it is under $500.

if i was AMD i would work on reducing the power of there quads.

45W Quad doesnt need to be super fast like intels. It needs to be fairly powerful and quiet and cool

Something AMD does have an advantage over intel on.

AMD needs to show us wattage numbers and not performance numbers. We already know how these guys do in a ball park sense. What we want is it to do what it does only with less power!

then AMD has winner.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: Gikaseixas
yes they're in trouble but the situation could be different in the future. I hope that they succeed so we can have some competition resulting in lower prices for everybody.

Look at what they did for the video card market, the best card is no longer over $600, it is under $500.

if i was AMD i would work on reducing the power of there quads.

45W Quad doesnt need to be super fast like intels. It needs to be fairly powerful and quiet and cool

Something AMD does have an advantage over intel on.

AMD needs to show us wattage numbers and not performance numbers. We already know how these guys do in a ball park sense. What we want is it to do what it does only with less power!

then AMD has winner.

But for the volume mainstream market segment ASP's for SKU's tend to be tiered relative to absolute performance and not really performance/watt.

Power consumption comes into play for modulating ASP's in the mainstream really only when there is an appreciable amount of competitive overlap in the performance offerings.

I agree there is a niche market (with good margins) for low-power SKU's but it's nothing (total annual dollar volume) to support a $2B capex budget let alone the R&D budget needed to stay on a 2yr process technology cadence (45nm -> 32nm -> 22nm).

Were AMD to shrink their goals to such low-volume SKU lineups then there would be a dramatic reduction in the size of the company in just about all aspects (headcount, fabcount, annual sales, etc).

By the way I am not against the idea of AMD doing such (hunkering down, slimming down, and shooting for the moon with Bulldozer and 32nm) but I just don't see such a ballsy move coming from the current regime in control of AMD.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: bharatwaja


Although, i dont know, i havent been reading up on chip news lately... can anyone tell me, is it the same architecture as the phenoms??

Havent you heard? This whole time AMD has just been lieing in wait....All you have to do is connect 2 of the pins with some bondo, and you can clock up to 6ghz on air.

I can think of at least two people that post here that will now take this as fact

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
now lets compare this to a yorkfield. @ 3.6 aka Neha Stock.

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...igomorla/superpi36.jpg

AMD is in trouble. When they dont have a chip even OVERCLOCKED that cant meet up with a neha @ STOCK.

You guys see now why i gave up on erinyes?
ive been getting a lot more info then you guys are getting. Only i cant tell you guys what i heard.

You're comparing SuperPi benchmarks between AMD and Intel CPUs.... and telling us that actually means something?

SuperPi is a useless benchmark in the modern world. If it accurately reflected real world performance, then that would make Intel's C2D 2x faster than Phenom per clock when it is really 10% or so (Kentsfield vs Agena).

In this SuperPi bench, Deneb is around 12% faster than Agena, in line with expectations of a ~10-15% increase in per clock performance. A 10-15% boost will put 45nm Deneb in line with Kentsfield, and in some cases Yorkfield, in terms of per clock performance. Deneb will launch at up to 2.8GHz, which means that if it launched now, it would be capable of competing with most of Intel's lineup.

On the desktop, AMD has nothing to worry about when it comes to Nehalem for quite some time. Nehalem is going to be high-end only for quite some time, from the latest roadmaps I would not expect to see LGA1160 out in full force till this time next year. AMD has to worry about Nehalem in the server space. When it comes to servers, AMD still has the edge but they will lose that when Nehalem comes out. They will still have a lead in the 4P+ market because Nehalem will not penetrate that market till late next year. Intel's 6-core Dunnington will be able to compete with Shanghai to an extent, but when it comes to 4P+ scaling, AMD is so much better that even a 6-core CPU may not be able to keep up with AMD's quad.

All that AMD has to do is really provide competition for Yorkfield this year. And it looks like Deneb will provide competition; it will not be superior to Yorkfield, but it will be very close. AMD will definitely be in a better position than they are now when Deneb launches. We will see 2.8GHz this year and 3.0GHz or more next year, when AM3 / RD890 will be out and available.

 

[aigomorla]

WOW.

okey i cant tell you guys more besides that without VOLATING my friends NDA.

So, you can argue all with me you want.

All i have to say is I OWNED both.

Erinyes went down after i got to play with my friends neha rig a little.

And all i need to say, is if your looking at AMD now, your gonna be EXTREMELY disapointed once Dell brings out there budget neha, and IT RAPES YOUR OVERCLOCKED phenom @ stock.

What more proof you want? You wanna go 3dmark with me? PCMark? You name it, YOUR PHENOM WILL GET RAPED.

Originally posted by: Extelleron

All that AMD has to do is really provide competition for Yorkfield this year. And it looks like Deneb will provide competition; it will not be superior to Yorkfield, but it will be very close. AMD will definitely be in a better position than they are now when Deneb launches. We will see 2.8GHz this year and 3.0GHz or more next year, when AM3 / RD890 will be out and available.

Now where the hell are you pulling this out of? There is absolutely NO CHANCE at amd even catching up to yorkie.

Why do people blow up AMD processors more then they are?

DUDE AMD HAS NO CHANCE IN PERFORMANCE. Just accept it and live with it.



Okey before you argue with me. I HAD BOTH. Please read sig. I have overclocked BOTH, and I realized Phenom is just CRAP.

Sorry but i really gave AMD a shot, and it was CRAP in performance. I dont have any loyalties to ANY COMPANY besides the Forum. If intel was crap, i would be telling everyone INTEL is CRAP.

Im very objective, and i dont have any fanism. AMD is seriously crap.
And i totally understand this statement.

Phenom + BS = SMOOTHER.

There is no easier way to say this.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
WOW.

okey i cant tell you guys more besides that without VOLATING my friends NDA.

So, you can argue all with me you want.

All i have to say is I OWNED both.

Erinyes went down after i got to play with my friends neha rig a little.

And all i need to say, is if your looking at AMD now, your gonna be EXTREMELY disapointed once Dell brings out there budget neha, and IT RAPES YOUR OVERCLOCKED phenom @ stock.

What more proof you want? You wanna go 3dmark with me? PCMark? You name it, YOUR PHENOM WILL GET RAPED.

Originally posted by: Extelleron

All that AMD has to do is really provide competition for Yorkfield this year. And it looks like Deneb will provide competition; it will not be superior to Yorkfield, but it will be very close. AMD will definitely be in a better position than they are now when Deneb launches. We will see 2.8GHz this year and 3.0GHz or more next year, when AM3 / RD890 will be out and available.

Now where the hell are you pulling this out of? There is absolutely NO CHANCE at amd even catching up to yorkie.

Why do people blow up AMD processors more then they are?

DUDE AMD HAS NO CHANCE IN PERFORMANCE. Just accept it and live with it.



Okey why do people argue with me on a comment like this? I HAVE HAD BOTH. Please read sig. I have overclocked BOTH, and I realized Phenom is just CRAP.

Sorry but i really gave AMD a shot, and it was CRAP in performance.

So, we're going to be disappointed in a years time? Sounds fine to me. In the meantime, we can enjoy AMD having a (more) competitive product.

Also, please 'invest' in Firefox. It has a built in spellcheck.
(And try and be less of an obvious Intel fanboy who needs to scream it from the rooftops, and behave in a slightly more respectable way befitting a moderator on the forums).

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Also, please 'invest' in Firefox. It has a built in spellcheck.
(And try and be less of an obvious Intel fanboy who needs to scream it from the rooftops, and behave in a slightly more respectable way befitting a moderator on the forums).

how in anyway am i showing fanism?

Show me a phenom that truely does perform.

Also show me a AMD that performs remotely close to its competition.

Bah, seems like you people just dont get it do you.

Okey, i wont say anymore, buy your phenoms. Ive had one. 9850BE. Was fairly nice, clocked at 3.015ghz, ran a bit too hot, consumed roughly the same electricty as a kentsfield @ 3.45ghz.

Sure i threw it on tests, was very disapointed, however all my friends knew this. I took all the flames from my friends when i bought it. But Hey, if im suposed to know CPU's i need to buy one and play with it right?

But once again, what would i know right?


And im gonna ignore your spell checker comment. I have done very well for myself with my gramer level.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
WOW.

okey i cant tell you guys more besides that without VOLATING my friends NDA.

So, you can argue all with me you want.

All i have to say is I OWNED both.

Erinyes went down after i got to play with my friends neha rig a little.

And all i need to say, is if your looking at AMD now, your gonna be EXTREMELY disapointed once Dell brings out there budget neha, and IT rapes your OVERCLOCKED phenom @ stock.

I'm not looking at AMD CPUs anymore.... I am done with them for now. But AMD will have a place with Deneb & Propus.

Budget Nehalem is well into 2009, and I still think the prices will be fairly steep on the quad-core models. Dual-core Nehalem will probably be at mainstream prices by that time.

Propus is going to compete with dual-core Nehalem in terms of performance. Deneb will sit at a slightly higher tier and compete with Yorkfield. Depending on how Propus performance w/o L3, AMD may focus mostly on it for the desktop market. Propus will be much cheaper to manufacture and since Deneb won't compete well enough to sell for high prices, it may be a worthless SKU for AMD. AMD will have nothing to compete with Nehalem, but as I said, it is not necessary. I do not see Nehalem quad becoming mainstream until 32nm. Intel is no longer focused on expanding market share, but increasing or at the very least maintaining margins. That is what shareholders are looking at, and thus that is what Intel management is looking at. Selling Nehalem at the same prices Yorkfield is currently selling at is not very good for marings. Remember Nehalem is a 246mm^2 die, Yorkfield is 2x 107mm^2. While total die size is similar, the difference in yields will be huge.

Remember that Nehalem performance varies from good to exceptional depending on the application. Nehalem will excel in server applications because of SMT, which can be easily utilized in that kind of workload because it is highly multi-threaded. In that kind of workload, Nehalem will be in another league as compared to Yorkfield or Shanghai.

But on the desktop, it is a different story. Quad-core Nehalem will be faster than Yorkfield because of the archiectural overhauls, but not nearly as much as on the server side. SMT is mostly useless on the desktop, because so few apps support 8 threads. For those that do rendering or extreme multi-tasking, it will be good for them, but those are the extreme minority. For the guy who plays games and runs basic apps, Nehalem's SMT will be useless. In that case, it is not more than 20% faster than Yorkfield on average.

What will probably be interesting for the desktop market is dual-core Nehalem. With 4 threads, DC Nehalem will be much more in touch with where software is right now. Much more apps support 4 threads versus those that support 8 threads. With a much more managable die size, DC Nehalem may arrive at similar prices to where the higher end Wolfdales are now.

Now where the hell are you pulling this out of? There is absolutely NO CHANCE at amd even catching up to yorkie.

Why do people blow up AMD processors more then they are?

DUDE AMD HAS NO CHANCE IN PERFORMANCE. Just accept it and live with it.

Okey before you argue with me. I HAD BOTH. Please read sig. I have overclocked BOTH, and I realized Phenom is just CRAP.

Sorry but i really gave AMD a shot, and it was CRAP in performance. I dont have any loyalties to ANY COMPANY besides the Forum. If intel was crap, i would be telling everyone INTEL is CRAP.

Im very objective, and i dont have any fanism. AMD is seriously crap.
And i totally understand this statement.

Phenom + BS = SMOOTHER.

There is no easier way to say this.

You're the one sounding like the fanboy here. I don't think you are one, but you seem to have a fanatical hatred of Phenom.

I too have owned both a Phenom 9500 & now an E8400. The E8400 is an unquestionably better CPU in every regard imaginable. Overclocked vs. Overclocked, it is faster in both multi-threaded & single-threaded apps, it uses much less power, and it is much easier to overclock. But I wouldn't say the Phenom is "crap." It just isn't an enthusiast CPU.

Right now Phenom's problem is pricing. AMD simply cannot afford to price Phenom at competitive levels because of the manufacturing costs and the competition from Intel. Right now, Phenom is simply not competitive. The Q6600 costs less than both the 9850 & 9950 yet performs faster on average. The 9950 establishes parity with the Q6600 in certain areas, but it is certainly not worth $30-40 more.

AMD will not get close to Nehalem in performance with K10 architecture. But they will get close to Yorkfield. Deneb will establish per clock parity with Kentsfield on average, and Kentsfield is maybe ~5% slower than Yorkfield. That's competition to me.

Propus will allow AMD to actually price Phenom at budget prices, where it belongs. It will be <200mm^2 in die size and much more affordable than Agena to manufacture.