ebay protocol question

[ZippyDan]

here is an exact copy of a description for an item I bought on ebay

"
******SURGE DAMAGED****** ALLWORX 6x with 3 phones

This unit has surge damaged to 2 FXO ports. The other remaining FXO ports seem to work OK. This auction also includes 3 damaged 9112 phones. I do not know the details or the extenet of the damage to the phones. There are handsets for each phone and there are only 2 power cubes for the phones.

SOLD AS IS!! no refunds

Will ship UPS Ground service to the lower 48 only!
"

The number of FXO ports basically equates to the number of external telephone lines that the PBX can handle. A 6x box normally supports 6 lines, so with 2 damaged, there are 4 lines working. I purchased this on the cheap (relatively) for an office that only has 4 outside lines so it was just what I needed.

When the product arrived and I tested it, only 3 of the FXO ports were working, rendering the product completely useless to me (I would not have bid on it had it said 3 FXO ports were damaged), as I need to be able to hook up all 4 of my lines.

What recourse do I have here? Granted, the description says SOLD AS IS. However, the description also specifically states that only two ports are damaged and the other four seem to be fine. My interpretation of this is that the product is SOLD AS IS, where AS IS = the details given in the description AT LEAST.

I'm not even asking for a return or a full refund, I took the risk here and I will resell the item on ebay to someone else who has use for only 3 working ports, BUT I will have to resell it with an accurate description (which apparently the seller was unable to investigate and verify as I did with about 15 minutes of work) that says only 3 ports are working and will likely lose money on the deal. I have asked for a 25% refund since the product only arrived 75% as described (3 out of 4 ports working), but the seller has basically told me "too bad".

Thoughts? I'm perfectly fine with being told I'm in the wrong here, as I've never run into this situation before and just need some guidance.

 

[Malak]

Sold as-is. Declared damaged, the extent of which was uncertain. You gambled and lost.

 

[olds]

Seem is not a definitive word. You lose.

 

[Crono]

"SOLD AS IS!! no refunds"

Once you see that statement you should automatically realize you are taking a risk and that you won't necessarily get what you are hoping for.

 

[Soundmanred]

Sold as-is. Declared damaged, the extent of which was uncertain. You gambled and lost.

Unfortunately for you, this is the case.

 

[rudder]

Leave a negative. Move on with your life.

 

[ZippyDan]

Sold as-is. Declared damaged, the extent of which was uncertain. You gambled and lost.

ok

The only damage which was clearly uncertain was the damage to the 3 phones that came with the box.

"I do not know the details or the extenet of the damage to the phones."

the description of the damage to the box was definitive

"This unit has surge damaged to 2 FXO ports."

I would've added "at least" or "or more"

"The other remaining FXO ports seem to work OK."

To me this implies they were tested and nothing was OBVIOUSLY wrong. There is no way someone could have confused the actual condition with "seem to work OK" as there are 3 ports that don't work AT ALL.

 

[krylon]

Sold as-is

How many times do you have to hear it? It was a gamble, sir.

 

[ZippyDan]

Perhaps I just misunderstand the meaning of Sold as-is then. I'll admit I've not purchased many or any Sold as-is items. What is the point of any description then if it could be completely incorrect? It seems to me the seller must have some responsibility to provide a best-effort accurate description even in a Sold as-is situation.

 

[Malak]

You purchased a known to be damaged product due to an electric surge, the extent of the damage uncertain. He said "seems" to be ok. That is not a technical way of stating they are working perfectly fine, nor does it imply in anyway that he tested them to the extent that would declare them in working order.

Not that any of this matters because the bottom line was, you bought an electronic device known to have been damaged in an electric surge. You made your mistake long before you clicked the buy now button.

 

[ZippyDan]

You purchased a known to be damaged product due to an electric surge, the extent of the damage uncertain. He said "seems" to be ok. That is not a technical way of stating they are working perfectly fine, nor does it imply in anyway that he tested them to the extent that would declare them in working order.

Not that any of this matters because the bottom line was, you bought an electronic device known to have been damaged in an electric surge. You made your mistake long before you clicked the buy now button.

to clarify:

To address your last paragraph, I own two more of these boxes one of which also lost an FXO port due to surge and has worked fine since for months. These boxes therefore are known to have weak FXO ports, so I purchased the item fully aware of the unit's capabilities and weaknesses (namely that the ports can die to mild surges that do not affect the rest of the box). This is bared out in the fact that an hour of fully testing all the capabilities on the box with three damaged FXO ports reveals that all of its other functionality works fine.

Secondly, to address your first paragraph, what exactly does "seem to be OK" mean in this situation? An FXO port is a telephone jack. The fried ports appear no different externally than a working port. No lights indicate that a port is functioning or not. The only way to judge whether a port is OK is to plug a line into it and see if you get a dial tone. This is a simple 1 minute test. What else could seems to be OK mean?

Now you could have problems beyond that which I would not expect to be tested.

Edit: Even though I don't like your answers I appreciate the advice

 

[ScottyB]

Eat your crow and move along.

 

[Newbian]

You could probably win your money back since paypal loves buyers but then you would be one of the many douches that does that.

 

[JS80]

better alternative to ebay http://glyde.com/

 

[Q]

As is always means no returns, no refunds.

 

[Mike Gayner]

DAMAGED. SOLD AS IS. NO REFUNDS.

Love how this is so hard to understand for some people. People who like to think they can buy something which is damaged without exposing themselves to any risk whatsoever, regardless of the clear wording used in the advertisement.

 

[frostedflakes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As-is

Sorry OP, but these guys are right. In the future, just stay away from "as-is" items.

edit: It is kind of ambiguous, though. Since the seller stated that four ports are working, you may be right here. Now, had he stated that the item had been damaged in a surge and said nothing about how many ports may or may not be working, that's a different story. But he did kind of "guarantee" that four of the six ports should work.

 

[ZippyDan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As-is

Sorry OP, but these guys are right. In the future, just stay away from "as-is" items.

edit: It is kind of ambiguous, though. Since the seller stated that four ports are working, you may be right here. Now, had he stated that the item had been damaged in a surge and said nothing about how many ports may or may not be working, that's a different story. But he did kind of "guarantee" that four of the six ports should work.

this is exactly the gray area i was trying to clarify

People who like to think they can buy something which is damaged without exposing themselves to any risk whatsoever, regardless of the clear wording used in the advertisement.

lies. there are a million other functions that this box performs. if any of those were not working, i would have said - "well, must have been damaged from the surge, sux to be me." the point is that i was willing to accept the risk on any of the other functions that were not discussed in the description. the only thing i expected was that the description that was given would be accurate.

From the "as-is" wikipedia article linked above:

On the other hand, the phrase "as is" does not disclaim express warranties, such as those created by the seller's description of an item. In other words, the item may be sold "as is," but if the item does not conform to the seller's description, the buyer has a right to reject it.

 

[datwater]

Even if 4 ports are working ... it took surge damage ... it's likely only a matter of time before none of them are working. IMHO - reselling it is asking for trouble as well.

 

[manlymatt83]

OP is right. From the wikipedia page:

On the other hand, the phrase "as is" does not disclaim express warranties, such as those created by the seller's description of an item. In other words, the item may be sold "as is," but if the item does not conform to the seller's description, the buyer has a right to reject it.

 

[xalos]

I would've wondered why the device only had 2 fried ports but came 3 fried phones..

 

[ZippyDan]

Even if 4 ports are working ... it took surge damage ... it's likely only a matter of time before none of them are working. IMHO - reselling it is asking for trouble as well.

As I've said, I have experience with this problem. I have another identical device with 1 fried port that has worked fine for months. I am reselling the device with an accurate description based on my testing and a 7-day guarantee that my description is accurate.

I would've wondered why the device only had 2 fried ports but came 3 fried phones..

You would've wondered that because you are not familiar with the device. The phones do not plug into the ports in question. If they did, it would only support 6 phones and that is not the case. The FXO ports are analog ports that receive the outside phone lines from the Telco company. The box then connects to your LAN via an ethernet cable. Hundreds of IP phones can then talk to the box and share those Telco lines via the LAN. The symptoms are unrelated (except for the fact that the seller is located in Lightning-crazy Florida, I'm not even sure the phones were damaged by lightning and are not just defective).

 

[krylon]

OP is right. From the wikipedia page:

On the other hand, the phrase "as is" does not disclaim express warranties, such as those created by the seller's description of an item. In other words, the item may be sold "as is," but if the item does not conform to the seller's description, the buyer has a right to reject it.

The seller listed "no refunds"

No refunds should raise an alarm that you are taking a gamble when you place your bid.