EBOLA!!! *10/6* Spain, you a goner.

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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I just want one of you to explain how this is going to work.

I'm not talking about getting people to stay at home, thats fine. But you seem to be talking about proper, full on quarantine.

If you take a bunch of people into a hospital because they might come down with Ebola then you are going to have to treat them as if they do have Ebola.

I really, really doubt that Texas has that many beds set up for that, and any beds they do have set up for that will be needed for real cases of Ebola if they do turn up.


OK I think I have the sense of things.

First we must have a basic understanding of a meaningful exposure and how it relates to rational isolation.

Let's take the current case as an example. It would be wrong from any educated and scientifically valid perspective to quarantine the passengers of the flight he was on because transmission simply does not occur during incubation. If someone isn't sick yet they are safe and that's all there is to it.

In the case where contact is made after disease presentation, there is a genuine risk. Technically the same things are true, in that asymptomatic individuals are not a threat, but here is where public safety trumps other considerations. It is established fact that people will not always stay where they can be monitored and treated if needed. They disappear or delay until after overt onset and that's when you have disaster.

Regarding the use of dedicated treatment facilities- that again isn't logical. It subjects individuals to needless confinement in unfamiliar and stressful conditions at great cost without need. That does not mean "ignore until sick", far from it. Those unfortunates who are factually at risk are closely monitored and the idiotic references to Perry and Texas are just that. They'll be watched over because this is what we do and how this is contained. The CDC will bring to bear whatever resources are required and no nation can do this as well as us. I think that's pretty much the bottom line.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,058
8,769
136
OK I think I have the sense of things.

First we must have a basic understanding of a meaningful exposure and how it relates to rational isolation.

Let's take the current case as an example. It would be wrong from any educated and scientifically valid perspective to quarantine the passengers of the flight he was on because transmission simply does not occur during incubation. If someone isn't sick yet they are safe and that's all there is to it.

In the case where contact is made after disease presentation, there is a genuine risk. Technically the same things are true, in that asymptomatic individuals are not a threat, but here is where public safety trumps other considerations. It is established fact that people will not always stay where they can be monitored and treated if needed. They disappear or delay until after overt onset and that's when you have disaster.

Regarding the use of dedicated treatment facilities- that again isn't logical. It subjects individuals to needless confinement in unfamiliar and stressful conditions at great cost without need. That does not mean "ignore until sick", far from it. Those unfortunates who are factually at risk are closely monitored and the idiotic references to Perry and Texas are just that. They'll be watched over because this is what we do and how this is contained. The CDC will bring to bear whatever resources are required and no nation can do this as well as us. I think that's pretty much the bottom line.

I'm going to broadly agree with that, its pretty well balanced.

Addressing the bolded: You have to remember that this is still one individual. Yes its a scary disease but its not like you dont already have endemic haemorrhagic diseases in NA. To enforce quarantine on unwilling people when there isnt (yet?) an outbreak is going to be expensive both politically and logistically. You want the population on your side to combat a disease and you want to be focused on combating the disease not chasing rabbits.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I'm going to broadly agree with that, its pretty well balanced.

Addressing the bolded: You have to remember that this is still one individual. Yes its a scary disease but its not like you dont already have endemic haemorrhagic diseases in NA. To enforce quarantine on unwilling people when there isnt (yet?) an outbreak is going to be expensive both politically and logistically. You want the population on your side to combat a disease and you want to be focused on combating the disease not chasing rabbits.


When I talk about quarantine I realize that entails a loss of freedom of movement which is one reason why I wouldn't have people shoved into specialty wards in what must be frightening circumstances. I'd bet those who are effectively homebound without choice are probably being treated better than they have in their lives. Is it desirable? No, but from a medical and health policy it's necessary and not abusive. Gitmo it's not.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
this family man, what the fuck

Dallas officials said that relatives of the man infected with Ebola left their apartment after agreeing not to, which prompted officials to issue a confinement order overnight.

“They were noncompliant with the request to stay home,” Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins, the county’s highest elected official, said at a news conference Thursday.

He said the individuals needed to stay home so that they could be tested at the same time daily, to ensure they have not been infected with the Ebola virus that sickened Thomas Eric Duncan, the Liberian who traveled last month to Texas and began to show symptoms during his visit.

Officials said food was being supplied to those in the apartment and that a service would be cleaning the area where linen and clothes used by Duncan remained.

At an earlier news conference, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Tom Frieden said Duncan was free of symptoms and did not have a fever when he left Liberia on Sept. 19 by plane, an effort to reassure passengers on the several flights that they were unlikely to contract the infection. Ebola can only be spread from an infected person who has symptoms.

When he departed, Duncan allegedly told Liberian officials that he had had no contact with anyone who was infected with Ebola, though it was later learned that he had helped a pregnant woman who was infected seek medical treatment.

It was unclear if Duncan knew the woman was ill with Ebola. Liberian officials have said they have yet to make a final decision on whether to charge Duncan.

Texas officials said they broadened their search for possible contacts who might have been exposed to Ebola from the original 12 to 18 people to about 100.

There is a core group, people who lived in the apartment where Duncan stayed, and the rest who may have come into contact with him or the core group. Those people may also have had contacts who are among the 100.

The most stringent surveillance is on those who lived in the apartment where Duncan visited.

Under the order, the family must stay in the apartment where they are have their temperatures taken once a day by health officials, and are expected to test themselves a second time daily and report the results, officials said.

Jenkins said local and state officials were forced to weigh personal freedoms against the common good, and decided the order was necessary, although the four individuals “are part of Dallas County and they will be treated with ultimate dignity and respect.”

Officials have said five children were exposed and attended classes at four Dallas public schools.

“I’m concerned about those children in that apartment, but I’m concerned about all the other children in the county,” Jenkins said.

Dallas Police and sheriff’s deputies have been dispatched to the complex in the northeast section of the city to enforce the order, officials said.

Mayor Mike Rawlings said said police were “embedded” at the complex “to create a safe environment.”

“It was clear to me, a Democrat, and to Governor [Rick] Perry, a Republican, that the actions that we took, while unusual, were appropriate,” Jenkins said.

cComments
Ebola is a serious issue. These people need to be quarantined in a secure facility, so that it is not their *choice* as to whether or not they obey the quarantine.
JHKLAT
AT 3:51 PM OCTOBER 02, 2014
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Zachary Thompson, director of Dallas County’s health department, said he and Dr. Christopher Perkins, the department’s medical director, met with the four individuals at the apartment late Wednesday, reviewed the order with them and ensured they understood.

“They emphatically said they would comply,” Thompson said.

He declined to discuss conditions in the apartment, although he did say Duncan's belongings and sheets he had used were placed in a sealed plastic bag.

Officials sent several days' worth of food to the apartment, and contracted with cleaners used by the county and area hospitals to handle other blood-borne illnesses such as HIV/AIDS, Jenkins said.

“We have some hygiene issues in that apartment,” Jenkins said.

But the county judge said the confinement order and monitoring were for the four individuals’ own good.

“It’s to their benefit,” he said.

Meanwhile, new details and questions continued to emerge about Duncan’s time in Africa and how he was exposed to Ebola.

A young pregnant woman in Paynesville, Liberia, is believed to be the Ebola contact who infected Duncan.

Duncan was in direct contact with Marthalene Williams, 19, who died Sept. 16. The day before, Duncan helped the family in a fruitless search for medical treatment for the sick woman.

Williams’ parents, Amie and Emmanuel Williams, left home early Thursday to seek medical treatment a day after their son and a neighbor died.

Binyah Kessely from the Liberian Airport Authority told the Associated Press on Thursday that Duncan would be prosecuted on his return to Liberia for making a false declaration on his airport form.

However, Steve Jackson, spokesman for the Justice Ministry, told the Los Angeles Times he knew of no plans to prosecute Duncan and said the solicitor general would make any decision on the matter.

The form requires people to state whether they touched or treated an Ebola patient, and Duncan denied having done so.

Duncan's neighbors said no one in the area knew that Marthalene Williams had died of the virus, and people believed she died of pregnancy complications.

Neighbors accused the family of hiding Williams' symptoms, but her treatment form from the local Blessed Home Clinic -- where she went the morning before she died -- indicated she was diagnosed with malaria and found to have very low blood pressure.

As her condition declined, they referred her to a hospital.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,058
8,769
136
When I talk about quarantine I realize that entails a loss of freedom of movement which is one reason why I wouldn't have people shoved into specialty wards in what must be frightening circumstances. I'd bet those who are effectively homebound without choice are probably being treated better than they have in their lives. Is it desirable? No, but from a medical and health policy it's necessary and not abusive. Gitmo it's not.

Its going to be expensive. You are going to have to deliver everything to them without contact and treat all the waste coming from the house. Its pretty much just for show.
Are you going to have armed police at both the front and back doors? Good luck with the "Obama puts innocent people under armed house arrest" stories.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Unless I missed something new I don't think the guy lives here in the States. His sister lives here in Dallas. She went to visit him back in Sept and shortly after he quit his job out of the blue. This isn't confirmed but I bet during her visit they planned on him fleeing the country to the US and possibly hide out with her. He just never planned on getting infected before his flight.

Ya, I didn't read up well enough. Sounds like he's Liberian and came to the US of A to visit family.

The more I read, the more pissed I get. And he allegedly lied about his exposure to someone infected with Ebola. Thanks an effing lot, dude.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
how about let's not go to fucking ebola central.

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 11m11 minutes ago
American cameraman working for NBC News in Liberia has tested positive for #Ebola, the network says. http://cnn.it/ZxNQCS
 

BeeBoop

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2013
1,677
0
0
how about let's not go to fucking ebola central.

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 11m11 minutes ago
American cameraman working for NBC News in Liberia has tested positive for #Ebola, the network says. http://cnn.it/ZxNQCS

How do two American doctors and a camera man get Ebola? Where they not wearing protective gear?
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
How do two American doctors and a camera man get Ebola? Where they not wearing protective gear?

Protective gear probably isn't 100%, especially if they're not completely sealed, positive pressure suits with self-contained breathing apparatuses. Even if it is, you have to take it on/off at some point, and you may touch the "dirty" side. Disinfection isn't perfect and in field conditions in a developing country, no way it's perfect.

And people, in general, in both developed and developing countries are dirty dirty people. People cross-contaminate all the time, everywhere. From meat to toxic chemicals to the toilet. Most people don't even know how to wash their hands properly -- experience in public washrooms.

Long story short, highly contagious disease + enough traffic = someone gets lucky. More people there are, the more people there are to get lucky.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Its going to be expensive. You are going to have to deliver everything to them without contact and treat all the waste coming from the house. Its pretty much just for show.
Are you going to have armed police at both the front and back doors? Good luck with the "Obama puts innocent people under armed house arrest" stories.

I'm not sure if we are communicating. When I refer to being at home that is while non infectious. Life continues in a familiar setting and yes leaving is prohibited. Detainment is the alternative. If symptoms development of course they would be moved to appropriate facilities. Yes of course it's expensive but of course the cost of doing nothing is extraordinary.

As far as Obama, I'll say that so far he hasn't inserted himself into the way of proper practice. If he gets grief then he can put on his big boy pants but complaints have been that he hasn't taken aggressive enough action, not by following correct procedures.

Speaking of, following correct and established procedure kept Nigeria from turning into Liberia

Protocol exists for a reason and has shown time and again to be safe and effective. Convenience does not take priority.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
how about let's not go to fucking ebola central.

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 11m11 minutes ago
American cameraman working for NBC News in Liberia has tested positive for #Ebola, the network says. http://cnn.it/ZxNQCS

Jesus Christ. I don't care what they say. This shit is easy to get. I'm sure that camera man wasn't all eager to go wiping people's noses for them, yet he got it.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
Jesus Christ. I don't care what they say. This shit is easy to get. I'm sure that camera man wasn't all eager to go wiping people's noses for them, yet he got it.

He got it from a mosquito bite. Just spray deet and you would be safe.
 
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