Economy:1-1-09 Microsoft planning big layoffs for January?

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

This whole idea that we need to prop up RE values to keep the tax base up is ridiculous. Here's an idea, STOP WASTING MONEY! Look at NY, Patterson is hacking and slashing in every corner of the government to avoid taxes, and he's a fricking democrat. If we focused on "essentials" rather than bridges to nowhere, we'd be in a better position. Not to mention reductions in government boondoggles in foreign countries.

Money won't solve the issue with education anyway.

Agreed. Some of the best funded schools are some of the worst schools, see most inner cities for a good example. Well, I know Baltimore is like that, I'm assuming it's the same across the country, I could be wrong.

Yes, it's a hard balance. I think NY state pays something like third most per student but is only 20th nationally. I know there are other factors, but one for example a local school district has recently approved an 18% increase over 4 years for their teachers. While private sector is bleeding they are getting more-than-inflation raises. And NY state has the highest property taxes in the nation. I pay over $6k/year on a house worth less than 200k. Don't worry about their income, though; don't for a second think that although my house is probably worth 6-10% less now than it was 18 months ago that my "appraisal" value has gone down; they'll still get their money.

the issue here is the inefficient way in which funds are currently being used

And the loser kids/their loser families. Private schools do much better with much less money.

I have to ask what happened to all the money they collected for the years home values were skyrocketing?

Raises!

Inner city schools get much less in funding compared to schools in suburban towns. And I know in MA, the best public school systems are in the suburbs.

Not here in Rochester. Inner City actually gets a smidgen more than suburbs and yet cannot even muster a 50% graduation rate vs 90% or more in the suburbs. The kids are losers and their families suck and no amount of money will change that.

 

[BoomerD]

You can throw all the money in the world into education, but if the kids don't want to learn, don't want to be in school, or are in some way stopped from learning by things in their environment, all that money just goes down the crapper. Inner city schools are prime examples of this. Many of the kids there either don't see the value in an education, (fo shizzle, a pimp don't needs no math) or because of the crime and other factors in their environment, they're prevented from learning. Can't spend that away either.

IMO, the teacher's union is a very small part of the problem, (if any part at all) you can NOT hold a teacher responsible for the students who don't want to learn, nor for the parents who refuse to get involved with their kids' education.

I do agree that not all kids are "college material," and many should be tested for vocational training, BUT, with so much of our industry being sent to other countries, what would they do with that training?

Here in Kahleeforneeya, a huge part of the schools' problems stem from having to fund ESL classes and educating the children of illegal immigrants.

To me, another huge drain on Kahleeforneeya's education budget is the building of schools that have large sprawling campuses and are more esthetically pleasing than functional.
Go back to the era of building plain utilitarian brick (or reinforced masonry) buildings that are less pleasing to the eye, but are geared to educate kids...that is after all, there SOLE reason to be there. It's a terrible waste to spend $15-$50 million dollars for a dammed high school or jr. high school when it COULD be built for much, much less.


I live right in the center of "Housing Meltdown Central." My county (Stanislaus) was #3 in total foreclosures, just behind #1, (San Joaquin) and #2 (Merced), and in the northern San Joaquin Valley, we had 20,000 foreclosures in the past 12 months...

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/390658.html

In addition to a high foreclosure rate, our unemployment rate hovers around 10-11%, and neighboring Merced county's jobless rate runs about 13%. (tough to pay your bills when you have no job and no job prospects.) We've seen hundreds of businesses, large and small, fold here in the valley over the past couple of years. It's getting downright dismal...

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

If we are suddenly seeing a shortage of funds in the public school system due to a lack of property tax revenue I have to ask what happened to all the money they collected for the years home values were skyrocketing?

I've had the same question for years.

Side note on economy: Inflation came in at it's highest level (year over year) in 17 years at 5.6%. Of course, strip out the things that we don't need (food and energy) and it was a still uncomfortable (for the Fed) 2.5% core.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Side note on economy: Inflation came in at it's highest level (year over year) in 17 years at 5.6%. Of course, strip out the things that we don't need (food and energy) and it was a still uncomfortable (for the Fed) 2.5% core.

Not sure if you're joking about the "don't need" category, but core is created as a more base-line inflation level, excluding the two most volatile items, allowing for better modeling and assumption of base good price increases.

It's hard to speculate and/or see huge price run-ups in refrigerators or clothes, but food and energy are different matters.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

This whole idea that we need to prop up RE values to keep the tax base up is ridiculous. Here's an idea, STOP WASTING MONEY! Look at NY, Patterson is hacking and slashing in every corner of the government to avoid taxes, and he's a fricking democrat. If we focused on "essentials" rather than bridges to nowhere, we'd be in a better position. Not to mention reductions in government boondoggles in foreign countries.

Money won't solve the issue with education anyway.

Agreed. Some of the best funded schools are some of the worst schools, see most inner cities for a good example. Well, I know Baltimore is like that, I'm assuming it's the same across the country, I could be wrong.

Correct, you are wrong. Inner city schools get much less in funding compared to schools in suburban towns. And I know in MA, the best public school systems are in the suburbs.

The best public school systems are pretty much always in the suburbs. Here is the best info that I could find Text

As stated here, Text DC has the third highest spending per student in the nation, and I seriously doubt that they are 3rd when it comes to performance, graduation rates, etc...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

If we are suddenly seeing a shortage of funds in the public school system due to a lack of property tax revenue I have to ask what happened to all the money they collected for the years home values were skyrocketing?

I've had the same question for years.

Side note on economy: Inflation came in at it's highest level (year over year) in 17 years at 5.6%. Of course, strip out the things that we don't need (food and energy) and it was a still uncomfortable (for the Fed) 2.5% core.

Here is the link:

8-14-2008 Inflation jumps to 17-year high as consumer prices soar

Consumer prices shot up in July at twice the expected rate, pushed higher by surging energy and food costs. The latest surge left inflation running at the fastest pace in 17 years.

And it leaves inflation rising by 5.6 percent over the past year, the biggest 12-month gain since January 1991.

The big rise in inflation left consumers even more squeezed. The Labor Department said that average weekly earnings, after adjusting for inflation, fell by 3.1 percent in July compared to a year ago, the biggest year-over-year decline since November 1990.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The big rise in inflation left consumers even more squeezed. The Labor Department said that average weekly earnings, after adjusting for inflation, fell by 3.1 percent in July compared to a year ago, the biggest year-over-year decline since November 1990.

My adjusted wages after inflation will suck worse next month: Sad economy = 5% pay cut for me (and everyone else working at the same company) starting Saturday. Also, no more overtime pay (although they want you to work it). Fuck that.

<---- Looking for a new job.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The big rise in inflation left consumers even more squeezed. The Labor Department said that average weekly earnings, after adjusting for inflation, fell by 3.1 percent in July compared to a year ago, the biggest year-over-year decline since November 1990.

My adjusted wages after inflation will suck worse next month: Sad economy = 5% pay cut for me (and everyone else working at the same company) starting Saturday. Fuck that.

That can't be

They have always claimed wages are rising faster than inflation here.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The big rise in inflation left consumers even more squeezed. The Labor Department said that average weekly earnings, after adjusting for inflation, fell by 3.1 percent in July compared to a year ago, the biggest year-over-year decline since November 1990.

My adjusted wages after inflation will suck worse next month: Sad economy = 5% pay cut for me (and everyone else working at the same company) starting Saturday. Fuck that.

That can't be

They have always claimed wages are rising faster than inflation here.

Wages, after inflation, have been down for about 4 out of 6 years, IIRC. Median wages are worse yet (IIRC again).

 

[Xavier434]

I cannot speak for other school counties and I do not know what is going on up in state, but I can speak for the budget department in my county because that is where I work. Trust me when I tell you guys that here in Florida we are scrapping by with whatever we can get from both the little things to the big things. We got major budget freezes, hiring freezes, no raises to little raises to decreases in pay for everyone, it is mandatory to practice things which save electricity, we recycle printing paper by flipping it around to print on the other side, every single department is working with a skeleton crew, teachers are barely hanging on by thread here and are being forced to buy their own materials to teach, etc. The list just goes on and on and on.

I know a lot of you guys will never get over the idea that money is being wasted, but the reality is while it most certainly is being wasted in certain areas of our federal government and various areas amongst the states, it is not being wasted everywhere. It most certainly is not being wasted in Florida's public school system here in my county. The kids are suffering this year as a result and most likely it will get worse this year and the following. My county alone got cut 70 million dollars last year.

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

If we are suddenly seeing a shortage of funds in the public school system due to a lack of property tax revenue I have to ask what happened to all the money they collected for the years home values were skyrocketing?

In Florida, all that extra money was not going towards the school system. I can tell you that much. I do not know where it went instead since I do not work in state. On a side note, a lot of you guys sound like the typical nonsense American who just wants more money in their pockets. You want the good education but you don't want to pay for it. It makes me sick. Reducing government waste is not proving to be enough to solve the education funding problems in my state so what's next?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The big rise in inflation left consumers even more squeezed. The Labor Department said that average weekly earnings, after adjusting for inflation, fell by 3.1 percent in July compared to a year ago, the biggest year-over-year decline since November 1990.

My adjusted wages after inflation will suck worse next month: Sad economy = 5% pay cut for me (and everyone else working at the same company) starting Saturday. Fuck that.

That can't be

They have always claimed wages are rising faster than inflation here.

Long-term wages have increased faster than inflation. Unless you have data to disprove that.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
You can throw all the money in the world into education, but if the kids don't want to learn, don't want to be in school, or are in some way stopped from learning by things in their environment, all that money just goes down the crapper. Inner city schools are prime examples of this. Many of the kids there either don't see the value in an education, (fo shizzle, a pimp don't needs no math) or because of the crime and other factors in their environment, they're prevented from learning. Can't spend that away either.

There is some truth to what you say and I am not claiming that money will completely solve the problem, but lack of money most certainly contributes a lot to that problem. No matter how you slice it, quality public education costs a lot of money. Without the money, the quality can, will, and has been dropping in many places in the US and especially Florida.

If you don't have money, you cannot hire let alone attract quality teachers.
If you don't have money, you have to cram more students into a single classroom.
If you don't have money you cannot purchase up to date classroom teaching materials.
If you don't have money you cannot afford maintenance in the schools.
If you don't have money, you cannot afford to offer some very useful and educational elective classes and extra curricular activities.

None of this is free folks. It all costs money and while many corners can be cut you eventually end up cutting off full pages that none of us want to see go down the drain if there isn't enough funding. That is exactly what is happening in Florida right now. Florida was never exactly prime time when it comes to education, but that doesn't mean that it could not get worse and it most certainly has recently due to funding issues.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The big rise in inflation left consumers even more squeezed. The Labor Department said that average weekly earnings, after adjusting for inflation, fell by 3.1 percent in July compared to a year ago, the biggest year-over-year decline since November 1990.

My adjusted wages after inflation will suck worse next month: Sad economy = 5% pay cut for me (and everyone else working at the same company) starting Saturday. Also, no more overtime pay (although they want you to work it). Fuck that.

<---- Looking for a new job.

You suck! I got a huge raise, 1% this year, so my salary is only down by 4.6%!

Actually, in truth it's not quite that simple. My mortgage, for example, costs the same it did last year as does my car payment, remaining student loans, etc. so in terms of things that can actually raise against me by inflation my pay is probably very close to what it was give or take.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

If we are suddenly seeing a shortage of funds in the public school system due to a lack of property tax revenue I have to ask what happened to all the money they collected for the years home values were skyrocketing?

I've had the same question for years.

Side note on economy: Inflation came in at it's highest level (year over year) in 17 years at 5.6%. Of course, strip out the things that we don't need (food and energy) and it was a still uncomfortable (for the Fed) 2.5% core.

Here is the link:

8-14-2008 Inflation jumps to 17-year high as consumer prices soar

Consumer prices shot up in July at twice the expected rate, pushed higher by surging energy and food costs. The latest surge left inflation running at the fastest pace in 17 years.

And it leaves inflation rising by 5.6 percent over the past year, the biggest 12-month gain since January 1991.

The big rise in inflation left consumers even more squeezed. The Labor Department said that average weekly earnings, after adjusting for inflation, fell by 3.1 percent in July compared to a year ago, the biggest year-over-year decline since November 1990.

http://www.researchrecap.com/i...-ethanol-under-attack/

Yea, that whole government "green" energy program pushing ethanol has really done wonders...

So lets see... government mandates increased ethanol blend mixes in gasoline. They heavily tariff imported sugar based ethanol effectively shutting it out of the market. Domestic corn based ethanol production skyrockets due to significant subsidies and incentives rather than market demand. Corn prices skyrocket due to increased demand directly impacting food costs worldwide.

So the taxpayer gets it twice without lube - first they get to subsidize an inefficient form of energy that a majority of them don't directly benefit from. (Good for agribusiness and anyone investing in corn based ethanol production though!) Then they get to pay more for food because the artificially high demand for corn increases food production costs and thus the consumer price.

This isn't a R vs. D issue - this is a classic example of the interests of a few lobbyists and their influence over elected officials who put their own position ahead of the good of their electorate.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Correct, you are wrong. Inner city schools get much less in funding compared to schools in suburban towns. And I know in MA, the best public school systems are in the suburbs.

and you've got a giant selection bias between inner city and suburban schools which accounts for the vast majority of any difference. the parents in the suburbs care. the parents in the inner cities do not. that is the number 1 factor in a child's performance in school.

Originally posted by: yuppiejr
http://www.researchrecap.com/i...-ethanol-under-attack/

Yea, that whole government "green" energy program pushing ethanol has really done wonders...

So lets see... government mandates increased ethanol blend mixes in gasoline. They heavily tariff imported sugar based ethanol effectively shutting it out of the market. Domestic corn based ethanol production skyrockets due to significant subsidies and incentives rather than market demand. Corn prices skyrocket due to increased demand directly impacting food costs worldwide.

So the taxpayer gets it twice without lube - first they get to subsidize an inefficient form of energy that a majority of them don't directly benefit from. (Good for agribusiness and anyone investing in corn based ethanol production though!) Then they get to pay more for food because the artificially high demand for corn increases food production costs and thus the consumer price.

This isn't a R vs. D issue - this is a classic example of the interests of a few lobbyists and their influence over elected officials who put their own position ahead of the good of their electorate.

and we're about to get a corn state president. awesome.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Correct, you are wrong. Inner city schools get much less in funding compared to schools in suburban towns. And I know in MA, the best public school systems are in the suburbs.

and you've got a giant selection bias between inner city and suburban schools which accounts for the vast majority of any difference. the parents in the suburbs care. the parents in the inner cities do not. that is the number 1 factor in a child's performance in school.

I can't exactly speak for any county but my own, but here it doesn't matter where the school is located when it comes to funding. It depends on many factors, but the main one is how many students are zoned for the school. One of the bigger reasons why the schools in suburbs tend to be better is because those areas are filled with more students that come from families with more money. These students are often better behaved and the parents are much easier to deal with. That sort of thing attracts the higher quality teachers which makes a huge difference when it comes to the quality of the school.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

I can't exactly speak for any county but my own, but here it doesn't matter where the school is located when it comes to funding. It depends on many factors, but the main one is how many students are zoned for the school. One of the bigger reasons why the schools in suburbs tend to be better is because those areas are filled with more students that come from families with more money. These students are often better behaved and the parents are much easier to deal with. That sort of thing attracts the higher quality teachers which makes a huge difference when it comes to the quality of the school.

respect is not limited to people with money.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Xavier434

I can't exactly speak for any county but my own, but here it doesn't matter where the school is located when it comes to funding. It depends on many factors, but the main one is how many students are zoned for the school. One of the bigger reasons why the schools in suburbs tend to be better is because those areas are filled with more students that come from families with more money. These students are often better behaved and the parents are much easier to deal with. That sort of thing attracts the higher quality teachers which makes a huge difference when it comes to the quality of the school.

respect is not limited to people with money.

Of course not, but that isn't the point. The point is that the odds of these schools having more kids which are better behaved and more eager to learn is higher. All you need to do is talk to several teachers from several different schools to discover that this is the truth in most areas. When choosing a school, this is one the main things quality teachers look for. The other thing they look for is how much money they will be paid. Quality teachers have a very large and direct impact when it comes to the quality of the school. Obviously they are not the only impact and they cannot hold the fort on their own, but they are still a cornerstone.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Of course not, but that isn't the point. The point is that the odds of these schools having more kids which are better behaved and more eager to learn is higher. All you need to do is talk to several teachers from several different schools to discover that this is the truth in most areas. When choosing a school, this is one the main things quality teachers look for.

and that comes back to a selection bias that has nothing to do with how much money the district/state/fed throws at problems. spending money doesn't help when the students and particularly parents have no respect or care for education. maybe the best teachers in the world can get some of those kids on the right track, but most teachers get burnt out and depressed teaching kids who don't care and have parents who don't care.

The other thing they look for is how much money they will be paid. Quality teachers have a very large and direct impact when it comes to the quality of the school. Obviously they are not the only impact and they cannot hold the fort on their own, but they are still a cornerstone.

right, better people will always gravitate toward better jobs, and pay is a factor, but i don't know if any k-12 teacher anywhere is paid enough to take a job that makes them question whether humanity is worth it.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Of course not, but that isn't the point. The point is that the odds of these schools having more kids which are better behaved and more eager to learn is higher. All you need to do is talk to several teachers from several different schools to discover that this is the truth in most areas. When choosing a school, this is one the main things quality teachers look for.

and that comes back to a selection bias that has nothing to do with how much money the district/state/fed throws at problems. spending money doesn't help when the students and particularly parents have no respect or care for education. maybe the best teachers in the world can get some of those kids on the right track, but most teachers get burnt out and depressed teaching kids who don't care and have parents who don't care.

You correct in the sense that simply throwing money at a problem will not always solve a problem. However, one can also say that not throwing enough money at a problem can prevent an effective solution from being used. Schools systems everywhere have many problems. Some can be solved much more easily with more money while others cannot. Right now, lack of funding for schools in Florida is contributing to a lot of problems because our previous solutions which we used to prevent certain problems are no longer affordable. This is mostly due to the lack of property taxes which are being collected combined with how little Florida's government makes education a priority when they are planning their budget.

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Xavier434
The other thing they look for is how much money they will be paid. Quality teachers have a very large and direct impact when it comes to the quality of the school. Obviously they are not the only impact and they cannot hold the fort on their own, but they are still a cornerstone.

right, better people will always gravitate toward better jobs, and pay is a factor, but i don't know if any k-12 teacher anywhere is paid enough to take a job that makes them question whether humanity is worth it.

Most teachers that I know that have voluntarily chosen teaching as their main profession are doing it at least partially to improve and/or maintain humanity in some way. Obviously money was not their top priority when they chose their profession. They know that it isn't the best paid profession. However, they also know that there are places which pay more than others so they often choose these places to live after they graduate college.

If they question that humanity is not worth the effort then they should not be teaching. These teachers tend to be the ones who are teaching because they do not know what else to do. These people are often the lower quality teachers. Also, one of the main reasons why so many schools accept lower quality teachers is because there are not enough teachers to choose from. This often has a lot to do with how much they are paid. Many people who could excel at teaching and might enjoy the profession often do not even consider it as a possibility due to how much money it will bring them. That is a big problem in many states. States that pay more money for the wages of their teachers tend to attract better teachers which produces a positive result in terms of the quality of education that the kids have the potential of getting.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

If we are suddenly seeing a shortage of funds in the public school system due to a lack of property tax revenue I have to ask what happened to all the money they collected for the years home values were skyrocketing?

Look at all the new crystal palaces that the school boards built over the past 10 years.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Our country really needs these housing issues to stop. It is causing so many issues including having a major impact on our education since a great amount of funding for education comes from property taxes. The overall impact is far worse than the .coms. Tons of counties are having a really hard time funding even the basics for their schools. It's bad enough that the US is ranked 22 in the world when it comes to education. We are right under Belgium...

If we removed the impoverished children in the nation's ghettos, how would the U.S. stack up? I bet that the public schools in the middle class and upper middle class suburbs would be doing just fine.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: LegendKillerpart of the problem is gearing all education towards a standardized test. It doesn't work for our system. If we had something akin to Germany's system, whereby kids were slotted a bit easier (which is, IMHO, not a great way of working the system), then it might work. However, now we have teachers not teaching what should be a well-rounded curriculum and, instead, focusing on passing the exams, which are narrow.

Ah...but we can't and won't do "slotting" in this country because we don't recognize the concept of IQ or g-factor and we like to maintain the touchy-feely belief that all kids are about equal and that they have the potential to learn just about any subject.

In my state, the politicians think they can save the state's economy with better education, so they increased the math requirements for graduation, which in practice will mean that more kids will drop out. They would be much better off if they were "slotted" into vocational education. Ditto for most of the poor children in the ghetto.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

There is some truth to what you say and I am not claiming that money will completely solve the problem, but lack of money most certainly contributes a lot to that problem. No matter how you slice it, quality public education costs a lot of money. Without the money, the quality can, will, and has been dropping in many places in the US and especially Florida.

If you don't have money, you cannot hire let alone attract quality teachers.
If you don't have money, you have to cram more students into a single classroom.
If you don't have money you cannot purchase up to date classroom teaching materials.
If you don't have money you cannot afford maintenance in the schools.
If you don't have money, you cannot afford to offer some very useful and educational elective classes and extra curricular activities.

None of this is free folks. It all costs money and while many corners can be cut you eventually end up cutting off full pages that none of us want to see go down the drain if there isn't enough funding. That is exactly what is happening in Florida right now. Florida was never exactly prime time when it comes to education, but that doesn't mean that it could not get worse and it most certainly has recently due to funding issues.[/quote]


I do not disagree with you in the slightest. Educating the children is and should be one of the most important things we can spend $$$ on in this country. The money does need to be better managed and better spent however. I see administrators here getting huge 6 figure salaries, principals who make into the 6 figures, and waste, waste, waste, all the while, the school district (s) fight to avoid giving teachers raises, they short the schools on supplies, (which the teachers are expected to pay for out of their pockets) and let maintenance go to shit.

Kahleeforneeya spends a lot of money on education, yet we're still below the national average in $$ spent per child.

http://californiaschoolfinance...tabid/183/Default.aspx

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: LegendKillerpart of the problem is gearing all education towards a standardized test. It doesn't work for our system. If we had something akin to Germany's system, whereby kids were slotted a bit easier (which is, IMHO, not a great way of working the system), then it might work. However, now we have teachers not teaching what should be a well-rounded curriculum and, instead, focusing on passing the exams, which are narrow.

Ah...but we can't and won't do "slotting" in this country because we don't recognize the concept of IQ or g-factor and we like to maintain the touchy-feely belief that all kids are about equal and that they have the potential to learn just about any subject.

In my state, the politicians think they can save the state's economy with better education, so they increased the math requirements for graduation, which in practice will mean that more kids will drop out. They would be much better off if they were "slotted" into vocational education. Ditto for most of the poor children in the ghetto.

Agreed with that.