Economy: America is Regressing into a Developing Nation for Most People

[Jhhnn]

The duh-version into immigration is standard right wing denial, complete with the usual inaccurate projections of what Libs want & a general disregard for the facts at hand. Nobody has suggested that we should allow more illegal immigration or that we shouldn't improve border security. Trump's stupid fucking wall won't give us that. It's like Pigpen's security blanket.

The truth is that the so-called invasion of illegals ended some years back. 2/3 have been here 10 years or more. Other than the traditional Ag workers their populations are concentrated in urban areas, anyway, not Trump country. They didn't steal your jobs- they went to the jobs in ways that small town Americans didn't.

Just say thanks to the Job Creators for making it that way. They've been provided with every opportunity to do what they want, to invest as they see fit & now their voters get to enjoy the results.

 

[sandorski]

All you gotta do is open your eyes and see the world in front of you.

I see white dudes in their 20-30's as bums now who look like they were raised middle class. Unnerving.

The opiate epidemic... people have given up on life and can't meet societal expectations so they turn to drugs for refuge.

Dating... is a clusterfuck, and the current dating scene is very reminiscent of 2nd world countries. More cheating, divorce, children out of wedlock, teen pregnancy etc. all on the rise in areas that have been hit hard economically.

Wrong. Except, "children out of wedlock", because that's a stupid thing to whine about anyway.

 

[Jhhnn]

All you gotta do is open your eyes and see the world in front of you.

I see white dudes in their 20-30's as bums now who look like they were raised middle class. Unnerving.

The opiate epidemic... people have given up on life and can't meet societal expectations so they turn to drugs for refuge.

Dating... is a clusterfuck, and the current dating scene is very reminiscent of 2nd world countries. More cheating, divorce, children out of wedlock, teen pregnancy etc. all on the rise in areas that have been hit hard economically.

It's the world the Job Creators made for us. It's what happens when the welfare of the stockholders, the bankers & the executives is placed above the welfare of the people.

 

[Exterous]

Thats what happens when you spend 600 billion on defense and fiddy bucks on education.

Only 4 countries in the world spend more on education per pupil than we do. We have a lot of problems with education but how much we spend on it isn't one of them

 

[shortylickens]

Only 4 countries in the world spend more on education per pupil than we do. We have a lot of problems with education but how much we spend on it isn't one of them

OH FINE THEN!

 

[VirtualLarry]

Wrong. Except, "children out of wedlock", because that's a stupid thing to whine about anyway.

I don't know. "Children out of wedlock", is just another chisel chipping away at the fabric of a stable, productive, well-knit society. Even irrespective of the strong religious arguments in favor of marriage, I'm sure that there are statistics on crime, that most criminals did NOT come from a strong home situation.

Edit: The question I have is: Is this the disease, or the symptom?

 

[sandorski]

I don't know. "Children out of wedlock", is just another chisel chipping away at the fabric of a stable, productive, well-knit society. Even irrespective of the strong religious arguments in favor of marriage, I'm sure that there are statistics on crime, that most criminals did NOT come from a strong home situation.

Edit: The question I have is: Is this the disease, or the symptom?

There's a difference between Single Parent and Out of Wedlock. In many jurisdictions the difference between Married and Living Together is so small it hardly matters. Add in that many don't want all the formalities of Marriage and it has become quite popular.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Trickle down will solve this, less taxes for the rich is what works!

 

[J.Wilkins]

I don't know. "Children out of wedlock", is just another chisel chipping away at the fabric of a stable, productive, well-knit society. Even irrespective of the strong religious arguments in favor of marriage, I'm sure that there are statistics on crime, that most criminals did NOT come from a strong home situation.

Edit: The question I have is: Is this the disease, or the symptom?

This is so fucking stupid, I've got two children out of wedlock, both employed in high paying jobs and both got their doctorates, meanwhile jack smack of VA fucks his daughter that he had in wedlock nightly and mother gets a punch in the throat if she tries to stop it.

Being a good parent matters a trillion times more than having your children within the confines of marriage you utter twit.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Being a good parent matters a trillion times more than having your children within the confines of marriage you utter twit.

Agreed, being a good parent is the critical component for the kid's future success. Having an involved parent is more valuable than anything else.

 

[ch33zw1z]

america is just becoming great again. we gotta hit rock bottom, so up looks that much better.

 

[feralkid]

All you gotta do is open your eyes and see the world in front of you.

I see white dudes in their 20-30's as bums now who look like they were raised middle class. Unnerving.

The opiate epidemic... people have given up on life and can't meet societal expectations so they turn to drugs for refuge.

Dating... is a clusterfuck, and the current dating scene is very reminiscent of 2nd world countries. More cheating, divorce, children out of wedlock, teen pregnancy etc. all on the rise in areas that have been hit hard economically.

"2nd world" doesn't mean what you think it does.

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm

 

[J.Wilkins]

Agreed, being a good parent is the critical component for the kid's future success. Having an involved parent is more valuable than anything else.

On this, we agree.

 

[bradly1101]

. Also which car companies have moved manufacturing to the US?

I didn't say they moved manufacturing here. When I said "located" I didn't mean all their manufacturing, but Toyota, BMW, Honda, Mercedes, and maybe some others I don't know about all manufacture cars here. I realize I'm advocating "protectionist" principals, but why did "protection" become an evil term? Trade is good, but when it impacts an economy so drastically, is all of it?

Our unemployment numbers don't tell the whole story:

https://qz.com/877432/the-us-unemployment-rate-measure-is-deceptive-and-doesnt-need-to-be/

Forcing multi nationals to decrease their profits is the antithesis of capitalism.

So apparently is good jobs. Without those jobs fewer and fewer can afford the products, decreasing profits. That's offset somewhat by lower prices, but how long can that be sustained without consumers going into massive debt. ($12.73T at last count - most of that is for housing, but with less in their pockets, more debt all around)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/household-debt-united-states.html

I know what's good for corporations, but what's good for society?

 

[J.Wilkins]

I didn't say they moved manufacturing here. When I said "located" I didn't mean all their manufacturing, but Toyota, BMW, Honda, Mercedes, and maybe some others I don't know about all manufacture cars here. I realize I'm advocating "protectionist" principals, but why did "protection" become an evil term? Trade is good, but when it impacts an economy so drastically, is all of it?

Our unemployment numbers don't tell the whole story:

https://qz.com/877432/the-us-unemployment-rate-measure-is-deceptive-and-doesnt-need-to-be/



So apparently is good jobs. Without those jobs fewer and fewer can afford the products, decreasing profits. That's offset somewhat by lower prices, but how long can that be sustained without consumers going into massive debt. ($12.73T at last count - most of that is for housing, but with less in their pockets, more debt all around)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/household-debt-united-states.html

I know what's good for corporations, but what's good for society?

If I would buy a car there is three nations that would be exempt from manufacturing, India, China and the US.

Why? Substandard materials are used in those three nations compared to the rest of the world.

The US used to be great with sheet metal but now you import it from China to make your cars which makes it flimsy high carbon crap that wouldn't stand up to any EU rules which is why BMW's sold in the US cannot be imported to the EU, as an example.

You've gone with profits first for your manufacturing but here's the kicker, I don't even blame you for it, you had no choice in the matter... You were forced to do that to get the production and you were forced to lower standards to get the deals.

I'm just saying that no other nation other than China and India would even consider doing that.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

LMAO you ever apply for an overseas visa? If you ever looked at a US visa form you'd know your entire argument was baseless.

I on the other hand have for my spouse. And I have 5 binders of stuff I needed to present to the embassy and the government to get the "yes" and it included list of vaccinations, medical history, education records, job history, recommendations, income, bank accounts, entire history of relationship and they took a year to vet it all before they said yes ok they qualify for the visa.

But it didn't take you any research to make up shit out of your ass like you usually do. Fake argument, Fake news, Fake propoganda. Guess what it makes you look like an untrained, uneducated, unvaccinated idiot who talks shit without vetting it.

What part of "illegal aliens" went over your head?

 

[Indus]

What part of "illegal aliens" went over your head?

Someone gets a visa to come here and then get a green card, it takes over a year. During that time they are "illegal". One of my friends had to wait for 13 years since they lost his file.

So shut the fuck up bitch.

 

[UglyCasanova]

So shut the fuck up bitch.

Woah an internet badass

 

[Triloby]

So the only practical way of helping affected U.S. citizens to become productive and self-reliant members of society again is to have a strong social safety net? The same social safety net that may or may not involve: Universal Basic Income, universal healthcare, a system involving national ID cards to replace the horribly insecure Social Security Numbers, and possibly an overhauled tax system? The same kind of social safety nets that already exist in other countries (except for UBI)?

You know what would actually be nice? For the average American to hold their government accountable. But we can't do that since most Americans don't seem to value the power of an individual vote, or the fact that we have a political system based around two parties and the "winner takes all". Then we have Americans who are willing to vote against their self-interests for purely short-sighted or selfish reasons. Being misinformed is one thing that can be fixed, but being intently malicious is something that cannot be fixed. Voting to take away someone's healthcare, while ignorantly believing that you won't be affected by it, is a perfect example of misinformation and malicious intent.

It would be nice to have all of these things, but it's not going to happen anytime soon, because people aren't whipped up into a big enough frenzy to actually want to go for it. Those that want to destroy it all have the power to do so, and those that want to save it have no power or motivation to do so.

 

[urvile]

It's not so much the costs of labor as the availability and flexibility of it.

If Apple needs to step up production of the latest iPhone to meet demand, for example, it has an easy time doing that in China. Need 3,000 factory workers? No problem; there are tons of them with just the right level of qualifications, and they'll be ready to start in a week or two.

In the US, however, you may have trouble finding anywhere close to that number of workers, and it'll probably take months to get them all up and running. Those who are qualified at all tend to be overqualified and aren't going to settle for factory jobs. To 'fix' this situation would require a dramatic shift back to that '50s-'60s emphasis on trades over higher education, and that's not going to happen. Trump is certainly too short-sighted and ignorant to consider that: his solution is to blame brown people.

And then there's the inevitable rise of automation. Oh, companies will gladly stop offshoring large chunks of their manufacturing... as soon as they can get robots to do nearly everything. Chinese companies are starting to do it, too. So the notion that the US can revive the middle class based on manufacturing is silly -- at best, it'd be a temporary shift before many of those people lost their jobs. Any recovery has to involve giving the middle-class more sustainable career paths, and making sure their money stretches further.

Cost is still a big factor in that and unions. There aren't any unions in china. Foxconn plants actually have suicide nets to catch employees jumping off buildings. Sounds like a fun place to work. I suppose corporates could just raise the price of their goods to keep the margins intact? Maybe we could end up with a two tier system.

Where cheaper versions of the iPhone are made in china and the premium version (which is exactly the same) is made in the US. It's been done that way in the watch world for a long time now. Where the same seiko watch can either be made in malaysia, the phillipines, china or japan. The version made in japan costs more simply because it was made in japan. Higher wages and costs.

I didn't say they moved manufacturing here. When I said "located" I didn't mean all their manufacturing, but Toyota, BMW, Honda, Mercedes, and maybe some others I don't know about all manufacture cars here. I realize I'm advocating "protectionist" principals, but why did "protection" become an evil term? Trade is good, but when it impacts an economy so drastically, is all of it?

Our unemployment numbers don't tell the whole story:

https://qz.com/877432/the-us-unemployment-rate-measure-is-deceptive-and-doesnt-need-to-be/



So apparently is good jobs. Without those jobs fewer and fewer can afford the products, decreasing profits. That's offset somewhat by lower prices, but how long can that be sustained without consumers going into massive debt. ($12.73T at last count - most of that is for housing, but with less in their pockets, more debt all around)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/household-debt-united-states.html

I know what's good for corporations, but what's good for society?

Nope. It's not good for society but then that's the governments problem. Even just reading this forum it's obvious there are americans who seem to view the US through rose coloured glasses. I read this article about rexnord and how when they offshored jobs to mexico and moved the rest to business friendly texas. All of the original employees lost their jobs. While the CEO made 40 million dollars for significantly reducing costs and that's how corporations work it's all about the shareholders.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/us/union-jobs-mexico-rexnord.html

Hope I am not sounding to militant. I have seen what employees mean to multi nationals. As soon as they aren't profitable anymore they are gone.

EDIT: The scary thing is it makes perferct sense to me that the CEO would make 40 million. It's his job to increase the company's profitability and that's exactly what he did.

 

[OverVolt]

"2nd world" doesn't mean what you think it does.

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm

Haha, yes you're correct on all counts there lol.

 

[bradly1101]

EDIT: The scary thing is it makes perferct sense to me that the CEO would make 40 million. It's his job to increase the company's profitability and that's exactly what he did.

Sometimes everything feels upside-down. Er, I mean all the time.

 

[OverVolt]

This is so fucking stupid, I've got two children out of wedlock, both employed in high paying jobs and both got their doctorates, meanwhile jack smack of VA fucks his daughter that he had in wedlock nightly and mother gets a punch in the throat if she tries to stop it.

Being a good parent matters a trillion times more than having your children within the confines of marriage you utter twit.

Hmm, are you in the UK?

Family units are stronger there.... marriage or not.

Well #outofwedlock is apparently a trigger word, but I was mostly referencing standard nuclear families, which in my mind is married.

Just the fact that nobody agrees on what constitutes a functioning family anymore is all the evidence you need. Thats what I mean by there are those with the rose tinted glasses on and those without.

 

[zinfamous]

so about 50 years of unending American exceptionalism, success, growth and all those wonderful middle class things that Democrat administrations gave us, then Reagan showed up and things have been "terrible!" since then. ...but not because of Reagan. No no, because of stuff that started, oh, 12 years later, right?

....yet it's the dem's fault.

How is it that republicans became so fundamentally ignorant?

 

[bshole]

Leftists want everybody to own a home. Leftists change laws such that people that shouldn't qualify for mortgages suddenly do. Eventually the house of cards collapses taking the economy down with it. Leftists, unable to admit they fucked it up, blame their enemies.

The root cause of the problem is leftists.

Explain to us all how the law the Republicans are pushing right now that removes property taxes/mortgage interest as deductible federal tax items is going to help ANYBODY own a home.

Did leftists put a gun to the banking industry's temple and force them to write 50 year, interest only loans? Of course it couldn't be the bankers fault, it was our fault, thus we as a nation had to bail them out. Privatize profit and socialize loss, that is the conservative mantra isn't it?