Education is a joke

[OS]

At an early age (starting in freaking elementary school), I was fed lies about how education is the true path to success, and that we should study our asses off to make it. Perhaps it is an asian culture thing, but whenever I got a poor grade in something, parents and people around me made it seem as if the sky was falling. So in HS, I worked my ass off and got into Berkeley thinking everything would be ok.

However, as a senior in college now and having dropped out of berkeley, in retrospect that all seems like bull. All of the people I knew in HS who worked their asses off have nothing to show for it today. I can comfortably say that half of them are drifting around within the educational system with no vision of what they want to do. In fact, I know berkeley graduates who cannot find jobs.

Ironically, many of the people who jerked off in hs are making an ok living doing just whatever. Even if I graduate, the going rate for a starting electrical engineer is ~45k-ish per year. Which is not very much today in all reality, I mean garbage men, UPS delivery men, car salesmen, etc. make that much and you can do that with no higher education.

The fact that many of the most successful men in the world do not have college degrees does not help. Bill Gates and Michael Dell are both college drop outs. In fact, supposedly 25% of the billionaires in the US do not have college degrees.

In the light of this, education seems like a waste. On an intrinsic level, I get nothing out of going to school. In fact, from my point of view, I lose alot from going to school, time, money and wasted effort. All for a promiseless piece of paper that says I muddled my way through college. I am quite close to giving school the finger and just dropping out and just going straight looking for a job.


Comments or additional stories are appreciated

 

[jadinolf]

Take it from someone who has been around a long time. Finish college!

Those college dropouts who have been very successful are the rare exceptions.

 

[GoldenBear]

Great post..it is totally true that if you do well in high school, it totally doesn't mean you'll get anywhere in the real world. Most people that earn super high grades typically have little social lives, and have little people skills, and that is probably the most important skill of them all.

And those people typically have the mindset that, whatever the teacher tells me to do, I'll do it. And without the ability to think for oneself, you won't get too far.

 

[khaosspawn]

You're right to an extent. But an EE at 45K can work up the management chain, discover something, patent it and make millions. What can the garbo do? Collect more garbage?

 

[OS]

<< Those college dropouts who have been very successful are the rare exceptions. >>




Anyone who is very successful is a rare exception regardless of their educational level. I'm just saying that not having a college degree isn't necessarily detrimental to one's chances at success.




<< And those people typically have the mindset that, whatever the teacher tells me to do, I'll do it. >>




Back in hs, I didn't have a problem telling a teacher I thought he/she was wasting my time making me learn stupid sh!t. There were quite a few teachers in hs who did not like me.




<< But an EE at 45K can work up the management chain, discover something, patent it and make millions. >>




Anyone who can do all that almost certainly had the talent to begin with. Education didn't necessarily bring it out.

 

[sharkeeper]

UPS driver salary: $38k
Fedex driver salary: $41k
Stepvan: $60k
Missing stop sign: PRICELESS!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

ALL YOUR STOP SIGNS ARE BELONG TO UPS

 

[trmiv]

I smell a moonbeam post coming on.........

 

[PistachioByAzul]

I'm a Senior at Berkeley High (maybe it's something in the air here) and I feel the same disillusionment with our societies idea of &quot;education&quot; beyond basic levels being absolutely vital. That concept is purely a social construct.

Granted if you know specifically what it is you want to pursue than education can be valuable. But most people don't, and yet there is so much pressure to go to college right after HS, but what is the point if you have no aim? That's why so many people crash and burn in the first couple of years. Being an Undergrad is damn sure a waste of time.

 

[khaosspawn]

<< But an EE at 45K can work up the management chain, discover something, patent it and make millions. >>



It might not take education to discover something, but you will definately need it to keep your money. Assume that random discoveries are equally likely to happen to the educated and uneducated.

So Joe Stupid can trip and discover oil. Then Joe Smart who has a law degree (etc.) can then rip him off big time. So Jeo Stupid has got lucky and then lost most of it to the educated lawyer who ripped him off. I'm sure you can come up with a similar example for an EE.

 

[Dameon]

The greeater problem is that our education system teaches people how to be professional regurgetators, and not thinkers. They are not taught to assemble &amp; craft ideas on their own, merely to recite the answers.

 

[Comp10]

If education is a joke, then whats ignorance? But seriously, i'm also in college and often feel similar. However, where I believe the key lies is in majoring in a field that you really enjoy. Thats where I believe the benefit of education comes in, you have a choice of choosing your future, rather than being forced into a future simply because of a lack of options. If you're just going to college to make a lot of money, then I think maybe you should stop and consider if attaing wealth is really what you want to be the goal of your life.

In my opinion education is only a waste if you are attaining it for the wrong reasons, and not doing what you really think you should be doing with your life (but of course, education can also help you figure out an answer to that question).

 

[PistachioByAzul]

The greeater problem is that our education system teaches people how to be professional regurgetators, and not thinkers. They are not taught to assemble &amp; craft ideas on their own, merely to recite the answers.

That hit the nail right on the head.

 

[SackOfAllTrades]

I think the most important thing you learn in college are the social skills. Look at these posts and you can tell which ones have it and which ones need it. Plus you'll never be in any other area concentrated with so many chicks...


One more thing: Just because you realize that education teaches people to be regurwhatevers...doesn't mean thinking the exact opposite we'll get you out of hive thinking.

 

[OS]

<< If education is a joke, then whats ignorance? >>



I'm not saying that learning is a joke and ignorance is the answer. I'm saying the educational system is a sham. I do enjoy learning, but the thing is, most of my learning doesn't take place from going to school, it comes from what I read on my own. To me, school has only taught me how to turn a crank and grind out answers. In all reality, to succeed in school, ultimately the only way to do that is to satisfy the teacher. Which is very different from actually learning anything. I cannot count the number of times, I am taught a new calculus method, that even though I can consistently get the right answer, I really don't know what I just did.



<< In my opinion education is only a waste if you are attaining it for the wrong reasons, and not doing what you really think you should be doing with your life (but of course, education can also help you figure out an answer to that question). >>



My hope was that the educational system would help me become a better person, to teach me new insight that I would otherwise be unable to see on my own. I hoped that education would show me a better way to learn and to refine my thinking. But on all those counts, education has completely and utterly failed me.



<< Plus you'll never be in any other area concentrated with so many chicks... >>



Hah! There are ZERO chicks in EE!

 

[trmiv]

<< But most people don't, and yet there is so much pressure to go to college right after HS, but what is the point if you have no aim? That's why so many people crash and burn in the first couple of years. >>



True, true. You don't know how badly I wish that I would have taken a year off after HS to just travel Europe or Asia, and learn some things on my own. But, I went straight to school not having a clue why I was going, and not having a plan of what I was going to do.

I've become pretty disillusioned with school lately as well. Unfortunetly, it seems to me, a lot of education is just memorization of facts. It's like you're studying to be on Jeopardy or something. I have had many classes where the professor's objective was to shove as much information down student's throats as they could, but they didn't take the time to help the students learn. For example, my finance prof last semester, this guy would stand in front of the class and read *directly* from the book, for an hour and fifeteen minutes, then we would go home. And this guy wasn't the only professor I've had that has done this.

Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of inert facts.
-Henry Brooks Adams

 

[SackOfAllTrades]

haha you guys are upset because you're stupid

 

[OS]

<< haha you guys are upset because you're stupid >>



Experience has taught me that those who are the most eager to point out other people's supposed stupidity usually aren't too bright themselves. Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawkings never walked around calling other people stupid

 

[SendTrash]

well if you are taking education as a means to just money, then it is a joke.

but enducation as a means to discovering new things, learning about yourself and being involved in matters greater than yourself and your isolated world, then it is pricesless....

 

[Elledan]

<<I'm not saying that learning is a joke and ignorance is the answer. I'm saying the educational system is a sham. I do enjoy learning, but the thing is, most of my learning doesn't take place from going to school, it comes from what I read on my own. To me, school has only taught me how to turn a crank and grind out answers. In all reality, to succeed in school, ultimately the only way to do that is to satisfy the teacher. Which is very different from actually learning anything.>>

And that's what it's about. Education is a way to reach understanding, not to memorize as many facts, words and other things you'll most likely forget in the next few years.

Look at it this way: When you build something, you first create the frame, then you start to attach things on that frame.
The frame is known as understanding, the things you attach to the frame information.

For example, learning a new language: at school they teach you some basic grammar, but after that, the only thing you do is learning sentences and words. This is wrong. Compare it to how you learned your first language as a child: you picked up tiny bits of conversations and constantly tried to communicate using those bits. The 'funny' things children are constantly saying is not because they find it amusing to do so, but it's their brain, trying to figure out how that language 'works'.
By learning only sentences and words, you're not doing yourself a favour. It's therefore totally wrong to force students to learn long lists of words, and give them a test on it, for this isn't called 'learning', but 'memorization'. Matching words. And because those words are learned in such a short period, they will be only available in your short-term memory, therefore you'll forget them, unless you use one or more of those words within a short period.

If there's nothing to attach information to, then you can't learn. That's why currently, education on schools is an excellent example of how you should not learn.

 

[toph99]

It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
-- Albert Einstein

 

[GaryTcs]

H.S. is stupid. If I knew then what I know now, I would have dropped out at 16 ang got a GED. There is nothing in life that a H.S. diploma can get you that a GED can't.

College is a bit different. That message on reciting facts is exactly correct. The thing is, tht not being a college graduate disqualifies you for a lot of the best jobs. It doesn't really matter if you are working in the field you study, as long as you have that diploma! So I guess my advice is, endure one more year. Your options are either to lose one more year, or to lose your last three.

 

[Whitedog]

All that about a &quot;piece of paper&quot; isn't what it's all about. You'll find that out in time.

It's all about learning and developing your mind. It really doesn't hit you until you are in your 30's (well, it didn't for me).

&quot;Education is a Joke&quot; No, it's not. Education is priceless. Thinking Education is your ticket to success... that could be a joke? You have to make yourself whatever it is you want to be. An education is just a step in getting there.

Yes, you have to work hard at getting a good education. Then again, you have to work hard at succeeding in your career too.

Few people are &quot;handed&quot; their careers just because of a &quot;piece of paper&quot; they have. In most cases, that &quot;piece of paper&quot; tells the employee that you've taken good measure to prepare yourslef for the job you're applying for. THEN, you have to put your &quot;education&quot; to work. I've seen many people with Masters degree's Fired because they wouldn't live up to their jobs...

 

[Windogg]

School is what you make of it. If you cruise through then it was all just a waste of time. I took classes with teachers and professor that most people thought were hard asses. Why? Because they helped me develop myself. Sure it's easy to sign up for some bird watching class or pottery but do you get out of it? Nothing that can be useful in the real world. I signed up for those extra math and history courses. For electives I took classes that made me a better person. I used to hate standing up infront of a class. So what did I do? I took theatre. Yea I nearly crapped my pants the first time I had to get on stage infront of 1000 people but after that it was easy.

In college I did the same thing. I took the toughest accounting and law classes I could find. Yea it was humbling to see a few awful grades but it forced me to work harder. Those four years of theatre really helped. I was shocked at how many people could barely stand infront a two people and give a speech. What will happen when they need to present something to a Board or Directors or team they are managing? English Lit can also be useful. It's amazing how many people have got awful writing skills that could potentially hold them back from a good position.

I know for a fact I'm not the smartest person but I beat out many people for my current position. I owe it all to a good education. Careerwise, I am in a position that is usually filled by someone five years my senior.

Windogg

 

[seewhy]

Yap, it is really the people that determines if you will be successful, not the school or education. BUT college does help you to go places if you want to yourself. People like Bill Gates and M. Dell dropped out of college because they knew what they were doing and they knew if they stay in college, the opportunities would have gone. They did not dropped out of school because they were wondering aimlessly. People who doesn't know what they are doing in college because they don't use the resource in college, or because they are too lazy. (don't flame me for that, it is true, I was one of them) But eventually, when people learn their lessons, hopefully earlier than later, college will be very useful in their life.

You say EE graduate only makes 45k?? Well you have to look at the future growth, and you got to plan your career yourself. If you have a good college degree in CS/EE with good grade, you can join one of the big consulting firm after graduate with salary around 5xK, stay for about 2~3 years, go to a top 10 MBA program, and after that you get about 100k coming out....and you will be what around 27 years old. Imaging the rest of your life with 6 figure salary with potential to go 7 figure or more, and that's very possible with good planning and using the resources in school. Let's see a UPS delivery man beats that.

Well, of course, if you got the talent like Bill Gates or M. Dell, and you are passionate about something and you know you will do will with that, hey, go ahead and drop out. It is true that there are many ways to be successful. But for the rest of us who don't have that much talent (or not enough guts to try it out), school is a good way to make a decent living.

 

[Noriaki]

If you don't like school don't go, that's fine it's your choice.

I've seen many many occasions where someone that has a degree gets a job or a promition over someone that doesn't. High School is a joke, and a waste of time.

But putting in the effort to get a degree shows commitment on your part and says something about your character. If you start college and drop out, then it shows upper management that you are the type to quit becuase you don't like something. If that's the message you want to send about yourself then so be it.

Personally I'm putting in the effort.

If you'd rather be a garbage man or a UPS deliver man than an EE that's great do so. The world needs all types. Personally I'm in computer science, and I very much enjoy the work. At salary in the company I work for I don't make anymore money than anyone else, but I do enjoy my work alot more than I would enjoy collecting trash.

There are many more ways to measure the quality of life than how many digits are on your pay check, in fact that is one of the least important in my life. I like my job, and my university education helped me get in the company. The director of information and technolgy systems at this company doens't even have a computing degree. But he has a degree in something, which like I says shows his commitment to what he has to do.

Alot of us couldn't get the jobs we have an enjoy without university. If you can good for you, save the money and enjoy life, because that's what it's really all about, right?


And as to your comment about lack of social and people skills, that's not always true. In this case you are posting on a message board of 45,000+ computer geeks, so probably most of us have no people skills at all (myself included). But I know lots of people that get good grades and have well developed social skills as well.
Natural talent can go along way, I get A+s in my Software Engineering courses without ever opening textbooks, just like my friend Allen can right an A+ english paper without ever bothering to back read or edit. University has never been a strain on my social life, if you are working so hard you don't have time to relax maybe you are studying the wrong thing!

Edit: oh and besides University can be alot of fun if you are studying the right thing. Alot of getting good grades in courses is just rote memorization and dull stuff like that (hence natural abitlity can get you good grades very easily). But if you really enjoy something, you have to push and dig and you can learn alot of interesting stuff. Maybe not in courses, but I leach knowledge from a lot of my instructors.