Effective cancer cure is found, except you can't have it because of the FDA fraud

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adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
You still don't understand that any patent application will (or should) include citations of any earlier work that might be related.

This can be used to narrow a patent or to deny it based on prior art, but citations appearing do not mean the new patent is "stealing" or "infringing" anything from the existing patents.

An application for mousetrap 20 might list citations for mousetraps 1-19 from 19 other inventors, then (to be granted) the new application must explain why it is new and different -- but then only the new and different parts will be protected by the patent.

Patents 1-19 keep all of their existing strength.

Why then quote Dr. B at all if his ideas do not work and he is a quack and fraud that warrants 60 million $ investigation?
Also, what business the US govt has to even sponsor a patent?
Furthermore, why Dr. B's potential has not been used appropriately?
All of these patents are related to Dr. B's work yet he is not given a full credit or an opportunity to develop his research further...
Yet someone else - who used to work with Dr. B comes along and "magically" gets grants and research lab and financial resources - related to the US govt and "comes" up with all these patents; one of them is over 100 pages long...

Tow people work on the same field...One of them is labeled a quack and second of them is labelled a "respected scientist" even though the field of work is identical...
Oh and in one of the cases
" The invention described herein may be manufactured used and licensed by or for the Government for governmental purposes without the payment to us of any royalties thereon"

WTF, this is very unusual case by itself.
I hope that I have managed to convince you that case of Dr. B is actually not as clear cut as: quack and pseudo-science...
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
It's pretty clear you have no idea how the patent system works, how the new drug application process works, or why the FDA has the power to tell someone that they cannot commercially advertise a particular treatment for a particular disease without proven efficacy, or having gone through the approval process.

You haven't shown anything that that actually hints the FDA is trying to sabotage his work or reputation. Instead you've shown that they, and the state's medical board, have sanctioned him for not following the fucking rules, by commercially advertising, and billing insurance, for his unproven treatment....which is fraud.
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
It's pretty clear you have no idea how the patent system works, how the new drug application process works, or why the FDA has the power to tell someone that they cannot commercially advertise a particular treatment for a particular disease without proven efficacy, or having gone through the approval process.

You haven't shown anything that that actually hints the FDA is trying to sabotage his work or reputation. Instead you've shown that they, and the state's medical board, have sanctioned him for not following the fucking rules, by commercially advertising, and billing insurance, for his unproven treatment....which is fraud.

I am sure that you can navigate such a system with a speed and efficiency of a Japanese bullet train....
.....I don't have to show you fucken anything, if you want, click on the links that I've provided, shut up and draw your own conclusions.

Edit: The guy who sanctioned his ability to advertize in the state of Texas is a fraud himself. He spend time in jail for taking a bribe...so...I wouldn't trust this guy's judgment...sorry
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/News/burzynski.html
Rules as ordered by a fraud render your argument invalid...
 
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Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
If you reference a researcher on your patent app, how come you are also trying to discredit him and put him to jail?
It does not make any sense...
Do you know how does the patent application work?
If you are quoting someone in your patent app, you base your patent claims partially on the quoted person's work...
Right?
Again, stop and see the movie
THX

You reference an existing patent on a new patent app because they have published something that makes a claim on some related subject. It may be directly related (maybe your patent improves on their idea) or it could be something that claims to be another method to do the same thing you're trying to do. Notice the word "claims" in that last sentence. To get a patent you don't have to provide a single shred of proof that your idea actually works, you just need to show that it's sufficiently different from things other people have claimed to invent in the past.

There's thousands and thousands of absolute junk patents that don't work. Yet people still legally have to cite them in new patent applications to show that they've looked at them and found that their new idea does not infringe. You can't just ignore the related patents that you don't think work, you need to present them all and make it clear that your idea is different.
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
You know that quackwatch.org is not a helpful citation for your argument?

Yes it is, because it shows that Dr B's opponents are desperate...
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/burzynski1.html

the "quackwatch" is desperate enough to questions Dr. B's PHD's credentials...

Then he performs the "Analysis of Antineoplaston Biochemistry" yet fails to mention that a government sponsored bitch got like a bunch of patents (see my links above) approved in the identical field dealing with the identical subject and citing/referring to Dr. Burzynski's research...
So there...
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
You reference an existing patent on a new patent app because they have published something that makes a claim on some related subject. It may be directly related (maybe your patent improves on their idea) or it could be something that claims to be another method to do the same thing you're trying to do. Notice the word "claims" in that last sentence. To get a patent you don't have to provide a single shred of proof that your idea actually works, you just need to show that it's sufficiently different from things other people have claimed to invent in the past.

There's thousands and thousands of absolute junk patents that don't work. Yet people still legally have to cite them in new patent applications to show that they've looked at them and found that their new idea does not infringe. You can't just ignore the related patents that you don't think work, you need to present them all and make it clear that your idea is different.

How many of them are sponsored by the gov (not many)...?
Also, the bio-chem patents are not "junk" patents...Typically there is a multimillion dollar research grant involved either by a gov or a big pharma company...
Read these, especially the first one...Over 100 pages of hard-core bio-chemistry. Serious research, lab, lab animals, equipment, staff, computers, payroll, time spent, statistical analysis, typically an institution is involved too. No one would throw these kind of resources on ideas that do not show a great promise...In the field of research pioneered by Dr. Burzynski btw...
 
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DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
adlep, perhaps I can attempt to explain this part of the patent process to you. What if we were back in the horse riding days and someone patented a particular 4 wheel vehicle that was powered by a motor that it turns out, ended up exploding within 2 to 3 weeks, killing all passengers in the vehicle? If someone else came up with a 4 wheeled vehicle with its own power source, they WOULD list that prior patent within their own. There are plenty of things that have been patented which turned out to be ineffective; but improvements on those inventions HAVE been fruitful.

Now, on to a bit of logic:
He claims that the FDA is stopping him? The F in FDA stands for "within the United States." He's free to go to Europe, or anywhere else on this planet to promote his drugs. And, like many others, you claim that big pharmaceutical companies are all out to stop him. That defies all logic and common sense. Imagine if I found a 100% certain cure for all types of cancer, or hell, even just for a handful of common cancers - do you have any idea how much that cure would be worth? Pharmaceutical companies would be FIGHTING over purchasing that patent from me. It would be worth hundreds of billions of dollars (lol at him being a mere billionaire) if not trillions. The annual global cost of lung cancer alone is 188 billion dollars (just google for economic cost of lung cancer.) If it cured more than one type of cancer, do you have any idea how much that would be worth?!

However, you claim that it's an effective cancer CURE, but seem to have completely sidestepped the fact that in the only real clinical test that's been done, ALL of the patients died. Could you please address that issue, please??
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
...do you have any idea how much that cure would be worth? Pharmaceutical companies would be FIGHTING over purchasing that patent from me. It would be worth hundreds of billions of dollars (lol at him being a mere billionaire) if not trillions...

Plus you could sell cigarettes on the side for even more profit, considering you can cure lung cancer.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Plus you could sell cigarettes on the side for even more profit, considering you can cure lung cancer.

Excellent point -- the tobacco companies would pay billions to sponsor this wonder cure, to improve their image, their sales, and reduce taxes and settlements for health care costs.
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
adlep, perhaps I can attempt to explain this part of the patent process to you. What if we were back in the horse riding days and someone patented a particular 4 wheel vehicle that was powered by a motor that it turns out, ended up exploding within 2 to 3 weeks, killing all passengers in the vehicle? If someone else came up with a 4 wheeled vehicle with its own power source, they WOULD list that prior patent within their own. There are plenty of things that have been patented which turned out to be ineffective; but improvements on those inventions HAVE been fruitful.

Now, on to a bit of logic:
He claims that the FDA is stopping him? The F in FDA stands for "within the United States." He's free to go to Europe, or anywhere else on this planet to promote his drugs. And, like many others, you claim that big pharmaceutical companies are all out to stop him. That defies all logic and common sense. Imagine if I found a 100% certain cure for all types of cancer, or hell, even just for a handful of common cancers - do you have any idea how much that cure would be worth? Pharmaceutical companies would be FIGHTING over purchasing that patent from me. It would be worth hundreds of billions of dollars (lol at him being a mere billionaire) if not trillions. The annual global cost of lung cancer alone is 188 billion dollars (just google for economic cost of lung cancer.) If it cured more than one type of cancer, do you have any idea how much that would be worth?!

However, you claim that it's an effective cancer CURE, but seem to have completely sidestepped the fact that in the only real clinical test that's been done, ALL of the patients died. Could you please address that issue, please??

Can you provide me with a source...?
Also, why would you spend billions of dollars on patents when you can bypass them or steal them?
Look what happened with facebook,
The Winkovi tools provided Zuck with a concept and preliminary site and he took the idea, run with it, made it work, and then paid the Winkovi off for cheap...
That is the modus operanti these days...Why buy patents?
Also, what will happens with the existing treatment options if the Dr. B's option becomes a common practice? The important source of income for these drug companies will dry off...

Why can't we buy cheap drugs from Canada?
Ans: The "FDA" is here to protect us from "potentially dangerous drugs" distributed by a 3rd world country of Canada...

The purpose of the FDA and pharma is to maintain the status quo...Obviously they will not do anything bluntly stupid, but they will also do everything they can to maintain the status quo, the drugs from Canada fiasco is an important precedence and proof of that...
 
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Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Yes it is, because it shows that Dr B's opponents are desperate...
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/burzynski1.html

the "quackwatch" is desperate enough to questions Dr. B's PHD's credentials...

Then he performs the "Analysis of Antineoplaston Biochemistry" yet fails to mention that a government sponsored bitch got like a bunch of patents (see my links above) approved in the identical field dealing with the identical subject and citing/referring to Dr. Burzynski's research...
So there...

They found that while he claims to have a PhD the schools that he went to did not give them during the time he was there. They aren't questioning the validity of his credentials that he claims to have, they are questioning if they even exist.

As for the patents, you still seem to be confusing citing a patent with infringing on or even suggesting another patent is valid. If it is something that has any relation at all, even if it is just superficial, it needs to be cited. Citing a patent does not mean that they are infringing or even saying that his idea works. They're just saying that it has something to make it similar.

For example, I actually have filed a few patents for high speed seals (my name is on the patent, my company holds the rights). The design of the seals that I work with is completely different from competing seal technologies that are used for similar applications. That means I can patent my design without infringing on the patents of people that make competing seal designs. While my patent in no way infringes on theirs I still cited their patents. I did it because my invention is a seal and their invention is a seal. Citing their patent is a way of saying that I am aware of their patent and mine does not infringe on it.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Pretend for a minute that this cancer cure works, and all of the world governments have not met in a back room to decide to keep letting millions suffer and die. That is, at least one nation doesn't hate its citizens and want them to suffer.

Let's pretend it is Canada, because they're stereotypically nicer than us.

Unlike the US, there is no FDA, so he is allowed to cure tens of thousands of Canadians, and is given millions of their almost-dollars.

What happens next?

Tens of thousands more people fly in to Canada for a "vacation", bringing suitcases full of gold, euros and real-dollars!

Everyone is cured, the doctor is very wealthy, and all of the other evil countries shake their fists.

Why hasn't this happened? Perhaps they're all in on it, every country including all of the ones with socialized medicine and all of the ones that don't even have a big pharma to call their own.

Or maybe the "cure" doesn't work as well as you think?

The Winkovi tools provided Zuck with a concept and preliminary site and he took the idea, run with it, made it work, and then paid the Winkovi off for cheap...

One key difference is that Facebook exists and is used by hundeds of millions of people and generates billions in revenue. Why hasn't anyone "copying" this "cure" made a working cure of their own? Why no "Cancer is Cured!" headlines in the news?
 
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Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
How many of them are sponsored by the gov (not many)...?
Also, the bio-chem patents are not "junk" patents...Typically there is a multimillion dollar research grant involved either by a gov or a big pharma company...
Read these, especially the first one...Over 100 pages of hard-core bio-chemistry. Serious research, lab, lab animals, equipment, staff, computers, payroll, time spent, statistical analysis, typically an institution is involved too. No one would throw these kind of resources on ideas that do not show a great promise...In the field of research pioneered by Dr. Burzynski btw...

1. There are huge amounts of patents filed by the government.
2. I'm not saying that the patent you linked to was a junk patent, I'm saying that the doctor you're trying to defend has junk patents.
3. Just because somebody cites another patent doesn't mean the method that they're doing has anything to do with the citation. In fact, citing a patent is a way of saying "I am aware of this prior work and my patent does not infringe on it". It's typical to cite patents that claim to accomplish the same goal in completely different ways.
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
For example, I actually have filed a few patents for high speed seals (my name is on the patent, my company holds the rights). The design of the seals that I work with is completely different from competing seal technologies that are used for similar applications. That means I can patent my design without infringing on the patents of people that make competing seal designs. While my patent in no way infringes on theirs I still cited their patents. I did it because my invention is a seal and their invention is a seal. Citing their patent is a way of saying that I am aware of their patent and mine does not infringe on it.

I have no doubt that your seal is better that your competition's seal, and I could even accept the fact that the patented new cancer treatment option is a better that the new cancer treatment option patented by Dr. Burzynski. That is called a scientific progress. Still, it proves my point. There is a theoretical and experimental basis for Dr. Budzinski claim because it has now been explored and improved upon by other research team that is sponsored by the government. Yet one party is receiving grants and patents while the other party is receiving threats and constant legal actions...
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
Blah,
I rest my case, this is exhausting...
Here is the official transcript of the movie with bunch of supporting documentation available to download...

http://www.burzynskimovie.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103&Itemid=85

I'd give Dr. B few more years of enthusiasm, but this is no way a blind enthusiasm. Given what I've seen I am optimistic that his medicine can become an important tool in the fight against cancer...
Lets hope that the guy succeeds...
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
But I came in here for an argument . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Well, we were going on back and forward for a while, but this was a nice argument to have. At least we were not arguing about something stupid like Kim Kardashian tits or some other bullshit...
What I was trying to do is to show an interesting documentary move - at least to me.
Cheers...

Edit: If I am a troll, I wish for these forums to have more "trolls" like me...
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
I have no doubt that your seal is better that your competition's seal, and I could even accept the fact that the patented new cancer treatment option is a better that the new cancer treatment option patented by Dr. Burzynski. That is called a scientific progress. Still, it proves my point. There is a theoretical and experimental basis for Dr. Budzinski claim because it has now been explored and improved upon by other research team that is sponsored by the government. Yet one party is receiving grants and patents while the other party is receiving threats and constant legal actions...

You still don't understand. Citing another patent doesn't mean that your work is based off theirs. By citing a patent you aren't saying "I improved on this", you are saying "I am aware of this and my patent does not infringe".

For example, my seal's design has absolutely nothing to do with my competitors' design. Zero. Zilch. Nada. My design can in no way be considered just an improvement on their work because the designs are so different. They accomplish the same thing (they are both seals) but that's about it. Yet I still cited the competing seals in my patent because they claim to reach the same goal. By citing them I'm not saying that I am building off their research, or even saying that their ideas works.

I believe that the doctor's patent that you're claiming is being "stolen" falls into the same boat. He made some claims about treating cancer, so other patents for claimed cancer treatment will end up citing it even if the way they go about the treatment is completely unrelated.
 
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