Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion ?Chuck? Patch

[atybimf]

Can you enable AA in, say, ATI Tray Tools instead of CCC?

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
The way things are shaping up lately ATi may as well use the TWIMTBP program too - in their case it's "The Way It's Meant To Be Patched"...

Like the way nvidia release beta drivers left and right? oh wait, wasn't their an nvidia driver released just for oblivion? Wanna tell me the last time ati released a beta driver? I think it was back in the Cat4.11 days. Idiot.

What the hell does beta drivers have to do with ATi needing to patch (hack is a more appropriate term) support for features that are supposed to just work anyway (ATi claims that their HDR AA is orthagonal to all the other rendering the chip does - farcry, SC-CT & now Oblivion all tell a different story...)

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
The way things are shaping up lately ATi may as well use the TWIMTBP program too - in their case it's "The Way It's Meant To Be Patched"...

Like the way nvidia release beta drivers left and right? oh wait, wasn't their an nvidia driver released just for oblivion? Wanna tell me the last time ati released a beta driver? I think it was back in the Cat4.11 days. Idiot.

What the hell does beta drivers have to do with ATi needing to patch (hack is a more appropriate term) support for features that are supposed to just work anyway (ATi claims that their HDR AA is orthagonal to all the other rendering the chip does - farcry, SC-CT & now Oblivion all tell a different story...)

Here's a story there perhaps someone didnt' tell you. HDR+AA is working on Oblivion. As an end user, I rather they please me (and many others like me) by releasing a patch or any other means to get the feature working vs. trying to please you by not releasing such "hack jobs." It's funny that once again you're the about the only one who still can't give Ati credit when deserved.

 

[Gstanfor]

HDR+AA is only working on ATi after an ATi driver hack to force it to work. Same for farcry & SC:CT (SC:CT still uses the SM2 path ATi specifically wrote into its drivers for it).

According to ATi's advertising HDR is orthagonal to all other rendering, and therefore things like AA etc should "just work" just like they do for non-hdr modes. This isn't the case so far.

 

[Barkotron]

You can call it a hack all you like. The fact is it's there, it works, and it's not possible on anything else other than X1k. Whichever way you want to belittle it, that's still a great big win for ATI on the year's hottest title.

If the devs for the game won't put the ability to do this in (which, apparently, would have needed about 2 lines of code from Bethesda - http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5282), I presume you'd rather no-one did? Why are you against getting better image quality?

 

[Sable]

Originally posted by: Barkotron
You can call it a hack all you like. The fact is it's there, it works, and it's not possible on anything else other than X1k. Whichever way you want to belittle it, that's still a great big win for ATI on the year's hottest title.

If the devs for the game won't put the ability to do this in (which, apparently, would have needed about 2 lines of code from Bethesda - http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5282), I presume you'd rather no-one did? Why are you against getting better image quality?

It's not that he doesn't want better image quality, it's just that if he can't have better image quality then no one should be allowed it.

I'm pretty sure TWIMTBP money played a part in HDR+AA not working straight out of the box.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
HDR+AA is only working on ATi after an ATi driver hack to force it to work. Same for farcry & SC:CT (SC:CT still uses the SM2 path ATi specifically wrote into its drivers for it).

According to ATi's advertising HDR is orthagonal to all other rendering, and therefore things like AA etc should "just work" just like they do for non-hdr modes. This isn't the case so far.

What classes it a hack job?

Wouldnt all the nvidia drivers which are beta hack jobs. Like maybe the 84.25 drivers, they arent official but supposedly they increase peformance in Oblivion, but in fact degrade quality in pretty much every other game!

 

[Barkotron]

Originally posted by: Sable

Originally posted by: Barkotron
You can call it a hack all you like. The fact is it's there, it works, and it's not possible on anything else other than X1k. Whichever way you want to belittle it, that's still a great big win for ATI on the year's hottest title.

If the devs for the game won't put the ability to do this in (which, apparently, would have needed about 2 lines of code from Bethesda - http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5282), I presume you'd rather no-one did? Why are you against getting better image quality?

It's not that he doesn't want better image quality, it's just that if he can't have better image quality then no one should be allowed it.

I'm pretty sure TWIMTBP money played a part in HDR+AA not working straight out of the box.

I hate to think something like that as I'm normally really opposed to conspiracy theories (I generally belong to the "cock-up more likely than conspiracy" school of thought), but I can't understand why something this easy wasn't implemented by Bethesda. 12 hours of work - total - to get it working, doing something which is present and documented in the DX9.0c API? Unless the Bethesda devs just totally misunderstood the capabilities of the X1k series, or decided it would be too hard without even beginning to look into it, I personally can't think of a non-conspiracy-based reason, whether TWIMTBP or Xbox-exclusive-featureness or whatever.

Shame really.

Oh well, at least NV's next generation will probably be able to do FP16 MSAA, and with any luck everyone will make their engines able to do it from the get-go.

 

[Gstanfor]

It's a hack because support has to be specifically added, when the GPU should require no added support at all in order to use the feature. Farcry, SC:CT & Oblivion should all have been capable of running HDR & AA without ATi so much as having to lift a finger or anyone needing to write a patch if what they claim about R5xx series is correct. The "It's not that he doesn't want better image quality, it's just that if he can't have better image quality then no one should be allowed it." comment is just outright retarded, but it does illustrate the fanATic mentality quite nicely...

As for nVIDIA's beta's, I can show you far more beta/unofficial/oem drivers that have top notch IQ & performance than you can show me questionable drivers, 84.30 & 84.43 spring instantly to mind as pertinent examples...

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
It's a hack because support has to be specifically added, when the GPU should require no added support at all in order to use the feature. Farcry, SC:CT & Oblivion should all have been capable of running HDR & AA without ATi so much as having to lift a finger or anyone needing to write a patch if what they claim about R5xx series is correct. The "It's not that he doesn't want better image quality, it's just that if he can't have better image quality then no one should be allowed it." comment is just outright retarded, but it does illustrate the fanATic mentality quite nicely...

As for nVIDIA's beta's, I can show you far more beta/unofficial/oem drivers that have top notch IQ & performance than you can show me questionable drivers, 84.30 & 84.43 spring instantly to mind as pertinent examples...

lol at bolded text. You are the funny

 

[Gstanfor]

What's so funny about it? ATi claim HDR on r5xx is orthagonal to all other rendering modes. In other words you can use it and AA without problem. At least that's the claim. The reality doesn't match the claim so far...

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
It's a hack because support has to be specifically added, when the GPU should require no added support at all in order to use the feature. Farcry, SC:CT & Oblivion should all have been capable of running HDR & AA without ATi so much as having to lift a finger or anyone needing to write a patch if what they claim about R5xx series is correct. The "It's not that he doesn't want better image quality, it's just that if he can't have better image quality then no one should be allowed it." comment is just outright retarded, but it does illustrate the fanATic mentality quite nicely...

As for nVIDIA's beta's, I can show you far more beta/unofficial/oem drivers that have top notch IQ & performance than you can show me questionable drivers, 84.30 & 84.43 spring instantly to mind as pertinent examples...

A gpu cant just force a feature that needs explicit support from the application, hence the need for a driver workaround. If NV claimed that the gf6 series supported HDR and soft stencil shadows, how come you can't just force any game to use those features? This kind of ridiculous demand is just absurd. At any rate, I'd rather have a hacked driver that added more eye candy which the dumba$s developers should have added in the first place, than a hacked driver that artificially boosts 3dmark scores by introducing static clip planes.

 

[5150Joker]

Gstanfor, I think you're the only nV troll that's worried about how HDR+AA was implemented to work with Oblivion (and soon other titles).

 

[PingSpike]

LOL @ this thread.

 

[Gstanfor]

Actually Munky in this case, it can. The application can ask for AA and it can ask for hdr rendering. It already knows how to ask for both in isolation. That's all it should take providing the drivers work right.

 

[Barkotron]

You're making yourself look more ridiculous every time you post. Just accept that the cards you appear to love so much for some bizarre reason can't do this, whether "a hack" or not, and move on. Is that really all you've got to hang on to, a stupid assertion that it's "a hack"?

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Actually Munky in this case, it can. The application can ask for AA and it can ask for hdr rendering. It already knows how to ask for both in isolation. That's all it should take providing the drivers work right.

But the application itself does not allow you to select HDR and AA at the same time. It's explicitly coded to NOT support HDR and AA simultaneously.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Barkotron
You're making yourself look more ridiculous every time you post. Just accept that the cards you appear to love so much for some bizarre reason can't do this, whether "a hack" or not, and move on. Is that really all you've got to hang on to, a stupid assertion that it's "a hack"?

Exactly, what a useless debate...

If you don't own an ATI card why do you care?

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Barkotron
You're making yourself look more ridiculous every time you post. Just accept that the cards you appear to love so much for some bizarre reason can't do this, whether "a hack" or not, and move on. Is that really all you've got to hang on to, a stupid assertion that it's "a hack"?

No kidding, who is he trying to convince? Fact is nV cards can't do FP 16 + MSAA and ATi cards can. Whether it takes driver magic or application programming to do it, the end result is the same and that's all that matters. It beats sitting on the sidelines with an nV card being green with enVy.

 

[Gstanfor]

I don't own Oblivion and I don't plan on purchasing it after being bitten by Daggerfall and Morrowind (two of the most boring RPG games ever written), so I can assure you I'm hardly green with envy - I'm waiting for Gothic3.

In theory it's possible to have AA + HDR on nVIDIA - just force SSAA, not MSAA. I haven't tried, and the performance hit would likely be tremendous.

Don't why my "being envious" is being discussed at all here though - I've never once mentioned nVIDIA in this debate - the fanATics (as per usual) have dragged that into the thread (when you're looking bad try to deflect attention...)

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I don't own Oblivion and I don't plan on purchasing it after being bitten by Daggerfall and Morrowind (two of the most boring RPG games ever written), so I can assure you I'm hardly green with envy - I'm waiting for Gothic3.

In theory it's possible to have AA + HDR on nVIDIA - just force SSAA, not MSAA. I haven't tried, and the performance hit would likely be tremendous.

Don't why my "being envious" is being discussed at all here though - I've never once mentioned nVIDIA in this debate - the fanATics (as per usual) have dragged that into the thread (when you're looking bad try to deflect attention...)

So, why do you care?

 

[Barkotron]

Wow, it's like talking to a creationist...

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I don't own Oblivion and I don't plan on purchasing it after being bitten by Daggerfall and Morrowind (two of the most boring RPG games ever written), so I can assure you I'm hardly green with envy - I'm waiting for Gothic3.

In theory it's possible to have AA + HDR on nVIDIA - just force SSAA, not MSAA. I haven't tried, and the performance hit would likely be tremendous.

Don't why my "being envious" is being discussed at all here though - I've never once mentioned nVIDIA in this debate - the fanATics (as per usual) have dragged that into the thread (when you're looking bad try to deflect attention...)

Deflect attention how? You think it is a hack and well 99% of the people would disagre including programmers.

 

[Gstanfor]

Most people wouldn't even know what HDR mode it was doing. As I said before SC:CT still uses the SM2.0 path. So far as I'm concerned there has been no conclusive proof that ATi is using FP16 HDR, most likely they are using the cheesy FX10 mode of theirs which is why they have to hack the hell out the drivers to make it work.

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: Barkotron
Wow, it's like talking to a creationist...

excuse me?

anyway Gstanfor, I don't think this is a hack. If you consider this a hack then you might as well consider all video drivers are hacks. If you look at all driver releases from ATI and nvidia, pretty much in every single one there is specific fixes for specific games.