Elderly woman racist to us at starbucks, what would you do?

[NetWareHead]

Summary - If you truly were from "her" neighborhood you wouldn't have had such thin skin where you run to the manager after asking some crotchety old lady to hit the road.

:thumbsup:

 

[Exterous]

Wait - so you admit the place was packed and you begrudge an elderly lady a place to sit? Maybe I'm just old fashioned but if an elderly person or pregnant lady needs a place to sit I give up my seat and certainly wouldn't ask them to leave if they were in an open seat near me. Even if I am doing an interview if I am in a crowded place like a packed starbucks I would assume that someone might have to sit next to me. If the interview is actually "personal and confidential" I seriously question the judgement of having it in a public space thats already crowded. When I think 'Hey I don't want people to know this as its personal and confidential' I don't think 'Hey lets go have this conversation in front of a bunch of strangers in a very public space where they could easily overhear everything I am saying'. I mean having a confidential conversation in a starbucks strikes me as an oxymoron without the rest of the story

Why should I let you decide what is racist and what is not, why not let the victim decide?

There is a growing feeling that letting the victim decide when they have been wronged is leading us down a path that we may not want to go down. Not saying that is the case there but a blanket 'let the victim decide' doesn't seem to be working out so well

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

The manager asking US to move was him being a coward and wanting to avoid confrontation, him offering us free grub meant he knew he was in the wrong.

I think you are being too harsh on the manager. I notice that you fail to confront the lady but you are expecting the manager to fight this for you? You want him to interview witnesses and make a decision in a he said vs she said situation? This is pretty far outside of what I would expect a Starbucks manager to do

You also seem overly sensitive to the free stuff offer. Offering free grub absolutely does not mean he knew he was in the wrong. As someone who has been in a few of those roles I can assure that it is common practice to do that even when we knew we were in the right. $10 in free stuff or whatever it was is better than being right and causing a scene.

Regardless of right and wrong he was following in the tradition of a huge section of customer facing roles where giving people free stuff is a way to calm them down and make them happy. Take his intent for what it was - to try and make you less upset. Honestly getting upset about someone making a gesture to try and placate you seems very dickish to me. He doesn't have magical mind reading powers to know that you fall in (in what my experience shows to be) the minority of people who would get more upset about being offered free stuff.

Exactly, and my kids have some plump to them - they were noshing through expensive bakery items and the woman most likely to buy a discount cup of coffee, if that. It's illogical from a business perspective, hurtful when the only recourse was waiting outside for 40 minutes (there were no other tables big enough for all of them and it was 50ish out, fine for us but not the 18 month old)

So you assume its illogical but how do you know she hasn't spent thousands of dollars there already over the course of the year? Not saying thats the case but if you want to try and make an 'illogical business' argument you are going to need information that you don't have

 

[SunnyD]

I was not rude or snide, there was single seating elsewhere. I said "excuse me, this interview is of a personal and confidential nature, do you mind moving?" I shit you not, a voice recorder was going on me so I was not dropping the f-bombs. You ASSUMED I was being snide. My wife is the one who alerted me to the waspy subversive racism, I thought she meant i looked poor (my wife said "i'm wearing a $400 scarf, how do we look poor? she means you look black and don't belong here." I was naive to the insult and focused on the interview). The more this woman said it directly to me and no one else (remember, my wife was calling her f-bombs, i was not and instead went straight to management) the more I think it had to do directly with my complexion.

Definitely a snide remark. You didn't offer her a hug!

 

[Exophase]

Anyways, it was him offering us free Starbucks grub that pushed me to complain. That's a very insensitive thing to do when the original aggression was a non-customer saying that we're too poor/black/whatever to be in that neighborhood... We could afford $6 coffees, thanks. I asked starbucks corporate not to send me free stuff as compensation, just to have a chat with him about being more sensitive to customer concerns.

I think you're taking this the wrong way. Managers give free things to customers as compensation for them being wronged, not some kind of charity because they think you can't afford it. Trust me, this stuff happens all the time. Sometimes you get free stuff just because the place was taking too long.

Given your appearance I think there's very little chance that anyone thought you were impoverished and needed a handout, and even if they did I doubt they'd do so out in the open like that (if at all).

Getting free stuff shows that the manager understood you were wronged. Could he have done more? He could have kicked the woman out, but there's a good chance that would have caused a scene and there's always the risk that she actually did nothing wrong and you were misunderstanding the situation. I can see how he wouldn't want to take that risk.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Why should I let you decide what is racist and what is not, why not let the victim decide?

Well...I don't think this is right. If people get to choose when they've been victimized then they'll all happily be victims whenever there's something in it for them. That's aside from the fact that leaving such an assessment to the imperfect judgement of a single individual who may be misinterpreting events due to their own hangups and biases is unwise.

There is an objective truth involved here. How it made you feel isn't necessarily the most relevant factor. Intent on the part of the perpetrator is the most relevant factor. I mean TRUE intent, not your likely flawed perception of it. It's entirely possible that you came away from the situation absolutely certain that the woman was being racist when race was actually the furthest thing from her mind. I'm not saying that's the most likely scenario, but it's a possibility that must be considered.

Relax, just because nobody was being racist necessarily doesn't mean you weren't wronged. You had the right to that table by simple fact of being there first and this woman was clearly an asshole about it. It could just be that, and nothing else. That's bad enough though. There's no real need to throw every other possible malevolent motivation into it to prove that you were in the right.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Old people were raised differently and when they get older their mind starts to go. Her brain mind filter is getting screwed up.

FWIW: My mom is 83 and having problems keeping her mouth shut about who might be cooking the food in the kitchen. She would not have done this 5 years ago (pre cancer treatment). She is going downhill.

Just give old people the benefit of the doubt and move.

 

[pauldun170]

My wife and family (and a student who was interviewing us) were at a Starbucks yesterday when an elderly woman...sat at the table

NYC, the place was PACKED

I said "excuse me, this interview is of a personal and confidential nature, do you mind moving?"

Her reply was "this is my neighborhood, you don't belong here and I have a right to be here and you don't."

I walked to report this to the manager.

 

[brianmanahan]

it is a little weird to conduct an interview at a starbucks instead of in an office

but i have seen other people do it before

 

[JulesMaximus]

My wife and family (and a student who was interviewing us) were at a Starbucks yesterday when an elderly woman rudely sat at the table we were already sitting at. We were paying customers and she was not - I asked her if she minded because this was a personal conversation and she was literally 3 inches away from me.. Her reply was "this is my neighborhood, you don't belong here and I have a right to be here and you don't." As a person of color I was livid by her assumption (based on the color of my skin, I assure you) and calmly walked to report this to the manager. Instead of hearing the 3 witnesses the manager instead took the white woman's side and suggested that I find another table, he did not speak to her at all. When my wife was obviously livid by the suggestion that WE move, he then offered us free stuff, adding insult to injury. We didn't take the free stuff, obviously.

What would you do in this situation? I knew I couldn't lose my temper because the older white woman will always get the sympathy from onlookers..

Remind her that she will be dead soon and the world will be yours.

Don't waste your time on ignorance... it's not worth it and you can't change her anyway.

 

[KeithP]

Her reply was "this is my neighborhood, you don't belong here and I have a right to be here and you don't." As a person of color I was livid by her assumption (based on the color of my skin, I assure you)

So you know it was a racist comment because she was a different race than you? LOL. Let me guess, you are part of the Pot family and the woman's name was kettle?

-KeithP

 

[Linux23]

That's a very insensitive thing to do when the original aggression was a non-customer saying that we're too poor/black/whatever to be in that neighborhood...

welcome to my world.


/thread

 

[Ns1]

"go fuck yourself lady"

i find old people racism hilarious

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Remind her that she will be dead soon and the world will be yours.

Don't waste your time on ignorance... it's not worth it and you can't change her anyway.

Brown person living in Florida, I use this line regularly.

 

[midwestfisherman]

Racism exists in every state, it is also not exclusive to white people

+1!!

 

[pauldun170]

"go fuck yourself lady"

i find old people racism hilarious

Nothing like sitting back and listening to 30 minute rant that starts off as
"I know not all coloreds are like that but........"

"Mr. Wong is a nice man but the rest of those damn Orientals are taking over the neighborhood!!!"

"Hey Jose or whatever your name is. Go back to your own country!!! "

"Stay away from those Puerto Ricans. Do you remember when they raped all those poor girls at the parade that year?"

"I gotta a guy in the Diamond District that can get you a good deal...<insert comment about Jews and Money>"

"Whenever I call support I can never understand those bobble heads!! I can't wait to retire"

"What do you mean you don't go to church? When was the last time you went to confession? WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE NOT CATHOLIC! (turns away with a look of disgust)"

 

[zinfamous]

The only more entitled feeling demographic than teenagers are old people. Just write it off as a crotchety old woman and move on. Lots of old people are racist as shit. Just what it is.

There is no standing up to them. They aren't going to change their opinion at this point in their life. It's just a question of how big of a scene do you want to make.

This. Racism and verbal toiletry scales positively with transience and substance:blood ratio, as well as age.

It makes for some entertaining bus rides from time to time.

 

[Brian Stirling]

My guess is she is a known kook and the staff didn't want to start a scene with her and took the easier course and blew you off. Sucks, but disturbed people exist in many places and are quite common in urban areas -- I've witnessed just such people many times.

So, while it could be racism my guess is it was choosing to offend one group that might or might not get pissy about it versus someone they knew would get pissy about it. Lesser of two evils...


Brian

 

[Kelvrick]

I think you're taking this the wrong way. Managers give free things to customers as compensation for them being wronged, not some kind of charity because they think you can't afford it. Trust me, this stuff happens all the time. Sometimes you get free stuff just because the place was taking too long.

Given your appearance I think there's very little chance that anyone thought you were impoverished and needed a handout, and even if they did I doubt they'd do so out in the open like that (if at all).

Getting free stuff shows that the manager understood you were wronged. Could he have done more? He could have kicked the woman out, but there's a good chance that would have caused a scene and there's always the risk that she actually did nothing wrong and you were misunderstanding the situation. I can see how he wouldn't want to take that risk.

Agreed with this. The manager wanted to give you something for the bullshit you had to deal with that was the crazy woman. I was on your side until you decided to get offended by something that was probably standard operating procedure for customers who aren't happy for some reason.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So you know it was a racist comment because she was a different race than you? LOL. Let me guess, you are part of the Pot family and the woman's name was kettle?

-KeithP

You need her to call him a ni**er to convince you?

It seemed pretty clear to me what she was saying.

 

[slackerinabox]

I think you're taking this the wrong way. Managers give free things to customers as compensation for them being wronged, not some kind of charity because they think you can't afford it. Trust me, this stuff happens all the time. Sometimes you get free stuff just because the place was taking too long.

Given your appearance I think there's very little chance that anyone thought you were impoverished and needed a handout, and even if they did I doubt they'd do so out in the open like that (if at all).

Getting free stuff shows that the manager understood you were wronged. Could he have done more? He could have kicked the woman out, but there's a good chance that would have caused a scene and there's always the risk that she actually did nothing wrong and you were misunderstanding the situation. I can see how he wouldn't want to take that risk.

I know, well, the full way he said it was what bothered me - "come back in a bit and we'll work it out" sorta deal, like he wanted us to leave to avoid any drama for some biscotti in exchange for our dignity. I know he meant well, but at the moment it came off as hush money (and I felt that we had a right to finish our drinks and the interview, not leave)

 

[SP33Demon]

I know, well, the full way he said it was what bothered me - "come back in a bit and we'll work it out" sorta deal, like he wanted us to leave to avoid any drama for some biscotti in exchange for our dignity. I know he meant well, but at the moment it came off as hush money (and I felt that we had a right to finish our drinks and the interview, not leave)

This thread just took an interesting turn. /popcorn

 

[JEDIYoda]

That's ok -- Jesus still loves -- red or yellow black or brown they are precious in his sight -- Jesus Loves all the little children of the world!@!

 

[A Casual Fitz]

My guess is she is a known cook and the staff didn't want to start a scene with her and took the easier course and blew you off. Sucks, but disturbed people exist in many places and are quite common in urban areas -- I've witnessed just such people many times.

So, while it could be racism my guess is it was choosing to offend one group that might or might not get pissy about it versus someone they knew would get pissy about it. Lesser of two evils...


Brian

What does she cook you?

 

[waffleironhead]

I know, well, the full way he said it was what bothered me - "come back in a bit and we'll work it out" sorta deal, like he wanted us to leave to avoid any drama for some biscotti in exchange for our dignity. I know he meant well, but at the moment it came off as hush money (and I felt that we had a right to finish our drinks and the interview, not leave)

Just like the old lady knew, exactly, what you were saying when you told her she wasn't wanted at "your" table. She knew full well what you meant. You were asking her to leave a seat she had every right to sit at, at the expense of her dignity.

 

[Ns1]

Just like the old lady knew, exactly, what you were saying when you told her she wasn't wanted at "your" table. She knew full well what you meant. You were asking her to leave a seat she had every right to sit at, at the expense of her dignity.

no, she doesn't have a right to sit down at a private table and drop unsolicited racist comments. fuck that.