Election 2004

[alchemize]

Excellent post Jerome.

Didn't take long for some to come represent exactly what you say.

The era of Michael Moore is over, They've been exposed as frauds. The past, present, and future of America is not going to be determined by those who screech longest and loudest. Arnold is the future democrat, if they would only recognize it.

 

[cwjerome]

Robor, you do not understand the issues, much less the Republican Party or me.

Morality isn't same sex marriage or abortion. Morality is a code of values to guide our actions, and it affects ALL issues. You can try and take apart morality from something like economy or foreign policy, but it doesn't work. It's a lesson you and many others have yet to understand. Morality comes first... it's the core issue from which all others are derived. Most mainstream people intuitively understand this.

As long as you think simple thoughts like morality is religion, and morality doesn't actually effect people's lives and is unimportant, you will not understand what I am saying.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Polls showed that many people thought Iraq was going badly. Polls showed Americans were concerned with education, jobs, healthcare, and security. Polls showed a small majority believing that America was heading in the wrong direction! Yet amazingly, Bush was still elected.... why?? Some people around here have a clue, but they don't have a remedy. The overriding factor comes down to a very simple concept: morals and attitude.

The campagin is based upon advertising morals and values. The election is won by convincing that you have more or better values than the other canadiates. It doesn't matter if you're attitude is better than your oppenent, what matters is that you get more electoral votes. Without any doubt, George Bush had a hell of a lot more money to spend than Kerry.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
This is because the Democratic Party may have legitimate ideas, but they are damaged goods. The Dems align themselves with Al Sharpton, Michael Moore, and Hollywood. The Dems embrace creepy websites like MoveOn.Org. The Dems are doomed to failure and are basically rudderless because of the vocal minority within their party that repulses moderate Americans. This dramatic shift to the left -while America remains basically conservative- is killing their chances at connecting with people and spreading their ideals. It's almost like how some radical extremists have hijacked moderate Islam, and taints any goodness that it has to offer. And like with that example, the reasonable Muslims are almost complicit in allowing for the dangerous fringe to fester and hurt the cause... such is the position of the Democratic Party. I call these extremists the arrogant elitists.

What? You're view of liberals is focused on 3 groups? The Republicans have plenty of extreme-right wings figureheads such a Ann Culter, Sean Hannity and Faux News.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
They think middle America is stupid.

In general most of those with a average education are conservative, however those with less of a education and those with a higher education are liberal. Statisically, middle america has less of a education than high America.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
They think our flag-waving is stupid and our churchgoing is stupid.

If you force your own personal religious beliefs amoung others, you're not stupid just a bigot. I don't support any anti-military protests personal. Bringing down the morale of troops is what kills them.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
They think having more than 2 kids is stupid and driving SUVs is stupid. They think where we live is stupid, our guns are stupid, and our undying belief in America's goodness is stupid.

Driving a SUV is stupid. Honestly, do you want to drive something thats top heavy and doesn't have to have a re-enforced roof. You don't need to own a fricken M-60. America's history isn't that great. The world can survive without America Policing the world.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
They think our beliefs are stupid, they think our votes are stupid, and they definately think GWB is stupid. Welcome to the land of the arrogant elites.

George W Bush still believes there are WMDs in Iraq. He even consistantly jokes about it.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
They can label tens of millions of Americans as racist with the drop of a hat. They malign and impune 100+ million Americans as fundamentalist nuts without blinking. They demean our most basic foundations and institutions by saying they allow for Nazi leaders. They show contempt for the people by labeling whole populations fascist. They corrupt our history by viewing it as one American atrocity or failure after another. They are doom and gloom pessimists, and cynical to the core. Their hand-wringing, conceited, negative, "can't do" attitude is fundamentally un-American. They brains are too big for America... they have outgrown her and are ashamed of her.

There are a lot of funamentalists nutcases, the Patriot Act is a move towards a facist Goverment.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Excellent post Jerome.

Didn't take long for some to come represent exactly what you say.

The era of Michael Moore is over, They've been exposed as frauds. The past, present, and future of America is not going to be determined by those who screech longest and loudest. Arnold is the future democrat, if they would only recognize it.

If Arnold is the future of Democrats in general than that does not bode well considering how things are going. Remember he is socially liberal and fiscally conservative. You can't have it both ways if you want to win the South.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Excellent post Jerome.

Didn't take long for some to come represent exactly what you say.

The era of Michael Moore is over, They've been exposed as frauds. The past, present, and future of America is not going to be determined by those who screech longest and loudest. Arnold is the future democrat, if they would only recognize it.

If it was Micheal Moore's era, wouldn't he had his canadiate won? Reguardless, F 9/11 more fact than fiction. The question is, should I watch it?

 

[EDoG2K]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Keep in mind the fact that the Democrats actually won in 2000, and had Gore been given the presidency your argument for the destruction of the left would be moot. I for one am never going to join the party of the brainwashed where its own members are encouraged not to think or to question the actions of the president. A thinking man's party is not the current Republican party. Give me the Rep. party of old, fiscal responsibility and a conservative approach to foreign policy.

Bush is not the thinking man's president. I can understand how you can be a republican, I just don't understand how you can support this administration and what the republican party stands for today.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: EDoG2K

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Keep in mind the fact that the Democrats actually won in 2000, and had Gore been given the presidency your argument for the destruction of the left would be moot. I for one am never going to join the party of the brainwashed where its own members are encouraged not to think or to question the actions of the president. A thinking man's party is not the current Republican party. Give me the Rep. party of old, fiscal responsibility and a conservative approach to foreign policy.

Bush is not the thinking man's president. I can understand how you can be a republican, I just don't understand how you can support this administration and what the republican party stands for today.

Exactly the whole Republican campaign this year was not for the thinking man. In fact, it was an attempt to alienate the thinking man from the party at all costs. A thinking man would see how disastrous this administration has been to our environment, economy, and foreign policy.

 

[lordtyranus]

Originally posted by: PsharkJF

Originally posted by: r0tt3n1
The newly elected Senator of Oklahoma, Tom Coburn the Republican, is utterly anti-abortion and has actually said doctors who perform them should be given the death penalty. He also held a rally in a rural county school district and opined about the `rampant lesbianism` in the small town high school. spooky.........

Yeah, that guy and Dement. That's who I was referring to. Are they the voice of the Republican party as you claim Sharpton and Moore are the voice of the Dems?

Individuals like that can only succeed on a state level, they aren't running for the presidency.

Jerome is utterly correct, and the responses here are typical knee jerk reactions.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: ntdz
well said.

 

[cwjerome]

Tab says: "Without any doubt, George Bush had a hell of a lot more money to spend than Kerry."

False. Look it up.

Tab says:What? You're view of liberals is focused on 3 groups? The Republicans have plenty of extreme-right wings figureheads such a Ann Culter, Sean Hannity and Faux News."

No, I only use those three as examples. I don't need a list to get my point across. And of course the right has extreme figureheads, but you'd have a hard time telling mainstream America that FoxNews is an extreme right-wing figurehead. This speaks volumes about your out of touch leftist bias. I'm saying the average American relates to the right much more... they don't care for being called Jesus-freaks, fascists, stupids, and racists.

Tab says, "In general most of those with a average education are conservative, however those with less of a education and those with a higher education are liberal. Statisically, middle america has less of a education than high America."

This makes no sense, except to show my point about arrogant elitists. What is "high America?" How do you know liberals have higher education? Are there more liberal PhDs than conservative? Does more ducation make someone smarter? Once again you claim superiority because you think libs are the smartest and know what's right for everyone. You're just as bad as those you demonize.

Tab says, "If you force your own personal religious beliefs amoung others, you're not stupid just a bigot. I don't support any anti-military protests personal. Bringing down the morale of troops is what kills them."

I'm sorry, but aren't you forcing your beliefs on others? Oh yeah, it's only all those crazed religious nuts who are storming our streets with their screaming sermons and forcing their religion on us. You have such a distorted view of religion and people... yes, yes people like you will not connect with the moderate mainstream.

Tabs says, "Driving a SUV is stupid. Honestly, do you want to drive something thats top heavy and doesn't have to have a re-enforced roof. You don't need to own a fricken M-60. America's history isn't that great. The world can survive without America Policing the world."

Yeah, good perspective. You are the perfect example of my topic. Like a monkey who keeps hitting the shock button....

Tab says, "George W Bush still believes there are WMDs in Iraq. He even consistantly jokes about it."

This is why you lose. Underestimate the intelligence of those you hate.... like Reagan, and he rolled- like Bush, and he rolled. Arrogance and hate breeds failure.

Tab says, "There are a lot of funamentalists nutcases, the Patriot Act is a move towards a facist Goverment."

Same old same old. Thanks, you were the perfect speciman... your fellow arrogant elitists will nod their heads with approval, the Democratic Party will warily keep you within reach, and mainstream America will reject you outright. If the Dems wake up and realize people like you do more harm than good, they would surge in popularity and power.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Excellent post. In many ways you and I have been trying to say the very same thing. Except you just expressed it far better than I have, or possibly could.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Many at this website will reactively attacked my words, not even realizing I am the one who is trying to help the Dems get with the program. Sometimes it takes a political outsider to provide a perspective that can't develop within the box. Take it for what it's worth.

This is actually the crux of your statement. Everything else was detached observation. Unfortunately it seems there are those who would rather see the previous paragraphs as criticism, even in their carefully crafted form, and immediately jerk a knee and ignore it instead of taking it to heart and for what it's truly worth. I can understand that though, as there are many who would refuse to acknowledge their own behavior as susceptible to such criticism. Hopefully at least a few will take it to heart though.

Come to think of it, maybe the problem with the liberal/left is that there's no real unifying force amongst them? There's no single guiding voice to lead them. Instead of speaking as one there are disparate millions shouting at once. Is that what they really need? Someone who can gather together all the ideas of the left and present it as a coherent whole? Maybe that was Kerry's problem since it seemed to be the perception he radiated? He was not a unifier (or unificator if you're a SNL fan ). People had a difficult time actually supporting him and rallying behind him. He had no cohesive aura that would attract the fold.

Eh, just a thought.

Anyway, this is one of the finest, most well-written OPs I've read since coming to ATP&N. Yet it doesn't surprise me coming from you. Keep up the great input. Maybe eventually it will sink in to its intended targets that it's not intended as a slam, but valid and constructive criticism that is meant to help, not hurt.

Additionally, I hope you and I could get together one day, have a beer, and shoot the sh!t. You have some very interesting perspectives.

 

[NesuD]

Dead on CW. The slide of the Dems is proven out even more by the fact that not only did Bush win decisively but across the board conservatism gained ground in both the house and the senate. A direct correlation can be drawn coinciding this shift with the rise of conservatism beginning in 1980 which can also be pegged to the shift in the Democratic party away from any semblance of conservatism at roughly the same time. When the Democratic party started abandoning It's own conservative members it created a vacuum that has been filled by the republicans.

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Robor, you do not understand the issues, much less the Republican Party or me.

Morality isn't same sex marriage or abortion. Morality is a code of values to guide our actions, and it affects ALL issues. You can try and take apart morality from something like economy or foreign policy, but it doesn't work. It's a lesson you and many others have yet to understand. Morality comes first... it's the core issue from which all others are derived. Most mainstream people intuitively understand this.

As long as you think simple thoughts like morality is religion, and morality doesn't actually effect people's lives and is unimportant, you will not understand what I am saying.

Morality is bombing the crap of another country, killing thousands of civilians, risking the lives of thousand's of our own troops, and using one of the nation's most catastrophic moments in history to advance their political agenda. Is that what you call morality?? Pleazzze!!!!!

If christ himself were to return today, he would ashamed at all of those religious folks that condone what he has done.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: bdude
Meh, this sort of de-construction of the left based on Bush's reelection is laughable at best. It was a mandate of law, not a mandate of the people.

These threads are indeed getting tiresome.

They always purport to be "sincerely interested in helping the left," or words to that effect, and they always proceed to lead the party by the hand, in the most condescending possible way, to help the poor benighted Democrat fools to understand why they need to become Republicans in everything but name.

They invariably mention Michael Moore as though he was Dr. Mengele, while conveniently ignoring the Republican party's own innumerable crazy old uncles (this is the same party that, for example, tried to reach out to black voters by bringing Don King on the campaign trail). They blather on about the evils of moveon.org when they were perfectly happy with the Swift Vets, Jerome Corsi, Newsmax, Michael Savage, and any and every other sleazy booster that showed up to support them.

They claim that Democrats are "radical" when in point of fact it's their own party that has never been more radical and secretive than it is presently.

I won't post again in this thread because it, and every other thread like it, bores me to tears.

As I have said innumerable times, I congratulate President Bush and his party on their victory. I also ask that they leave our party to lick our wounds and find our way. The Democrats don't need, or want, the patronizing, self-serving advice of Republicans on where to go from here.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Tab says: "Without any doubt, George Bush had a hell of a lot more money to spend than Kerry."

False. Look it up.

The republican party had more money.

George Bush had rasied 272,573,444 MILLION John Kerry rasied 249,305,109 MILLION

Thats a difference of 23,258,335 MILLION

George Bush spent 256,077,640 MILLION John Kerry spent 204,376,377 MILLION

Thats a difference of 51,701,263 MILLION

I'll post later.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: bdude
Meh, this sort of de-construction of the left based on Bush's reelection is laughable at best. It was a mandate of law, not a mandate of the people.

These threads are indeed getting tiresome.

They always purport to be "sincerely interested in helping the left," or words to that effect, and they always proceed to lead the party by the hand, in the most condescending possible way, to help the poor benighted Democrat fools to understand why they need to become Republicans in everything but name.

They invariably mention Michael Moore as though he was Dr. Mengele, while conveniently ignoring the Republican party's own innumerable crazy old uncles (this is the same party that, for example, tried to reach out to black voters by bringing Don King on the campaign trail). They blather on about the evils of moveon.org when they were perfectly happy with the Swift Vets, Jerome Corsi, Newsmax, Michael Savage, and any and every other sleazy booster that showed up to support them.

They claim that Democrats are "radical" when in point of fact it's their own party that has never been more radical and secretive than it is presently.

I won't post again in this thread because it, and every other thread like it, bores me to tears.

As I have said innumerable times, I congratulate President Bush and his party on their victory. I also ask that they leave our party to lick our wounds and find our way. The Democrats don't need, or want, the patronizing, self-serving advice of Republicans on where to go from here.

Typical. There are always those among the liberals who believe everything is personal and targeted directly at them. What they don't understand is these posts are not about them, it's about the liberal cause, yet they are often so self-absorbed they can't even take their eye away from looking at themselves in the mirror to realize that. They starkly refuse to listen to anyone because they already claim they know what's best when that's obvious it's far from the truth. If they knew what was best they wouldn't have lost an election to GW Bush, and that's a simple fact.

This is not about trying to convert anyone to Republican or neocons either. There actually are many people out there who are truly concerned about the status of today's liberal. The cocky liberal stand and know-it-all attitudes make it virtually impossible to get through to them though that the liberal faction is in the trash bin right now. Oh, they know it, but seem to want to deny the fact instead, as if hiding their head in the sand will change anything. Instead of listening to criticism they'd rather remain in denial and back the loudmouth idiot fringe that is making them look the fool, so they also look the fool in the process and by association.

It's precisely this lack of introspection that I've been harping about and that is the very basic problem with liberalism today. If they don't wake up and realize this then they will remain the bottom-dwellers they currently are for forever and a day. And that is mighty sad because there is so much more potential for societal change if they'd just move their asses a few microns. These individuals are ruining the liberal cause through sheer stubbornness. Pitiful.

 

[cwjerome]

I'm sorry, I was referring to the equal sums of $74.6 million both received for the general election, and in return they couldn't raise or spend private funds after accepting their party's nomination.

I will concede that $23 million raised is more, but not "a hell of a lot more". I think by the time you count 527s, it would even more equal. George Soros spent 100 times more money than the SwiftVets did for example.

The Democratic Party is as well-moneyed as the Reps. They are both big money and in the hands of interests, and whether it comes from AT&T or Trial Lawyers makes little difference.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: ntdz
well said.

haha ntdz, looks like you me and the OP agree on something :

Bush was weak and easily defeatable. The fact that he passed while losing on the issues is a slap in the face and complete rejection of the values and morals eminating from the arrogant elites withing the Democratic Party.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: digiram

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Robor, you do not understand the issues, much less the Republican Party or me.

Morality isn't same sex marriage or abortion. Morality is a code of values to guide our actions, and it affects ALL issues. You can try and take apart morality from something like economy or foreign policy, but it doesn't work. It's a lesson you and many others have yet to understand. Morality comes first... it's the core issue from which all others are derived. Most mainstream people intuitively understand this.

As long as you think simple thoughts like morality is religion, and morality doesn't actually effect people's lives and is unimportant, you will not understand what I am saying.

Morality is bombing the crap of another country, killing thousands of civilians, risking the lives of thousand's of our own troops, and using one of the nation's most catastrophic moments in history to advance their political agenda. Is that what you call morality?? Pleazzze!!!!!

If christ himself were to return today, he would ashamed at all of those religious folks that condone what he has done.

Thank you. You saved me the time of typing out a reply.

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: DonVito
I also ask that they leave our party to lick our wounds and find our way. The Democrats don't need, or want, the patronizing, self-serving advice of Republicans on where to go from here.

Don, It appears the Democratic party is doing just that. From the sampling of news programs that I caught yesterday, there was plenty of talk from the Democrats regarding revisions to their platform to make them an appealing party.

 

[Pliablemoose]

cwjerome, you're really fvcking with the master plan, it's a secret, but I can reveal it here, as long as everyone else doesn't talk about it, think of this post as a political "Fight Club" of the Repuglicans...

Let the Liberals/Democrats continue to think that they are right, the victory was in fact narrow, really statistically insignificant if you look at it, there is no need to reform the DNC positions, let the voters come around to their point of view, because they're really correct, they're just a bit ahead of the curve, the voters will eventually see that they're right & come flocking back to support the ideals of the Democrats.

So the action plan for the Democrats is to continue to be obstructionist & partisan in congress, continue to embrace the anarchist democrats & celebrities, Sharpton & Jackson are the anti Uncle Toms & are good for the party. The winers need to keep protesting & believing the crap Michael Moore spews out.

See you in 06'...

If the democratic leadership had a brain in their head they'd be camping out on Bill Cosby's doorstep, hat in hand begging him to become active in the DNC.

 

[dardin211]

Yet it's always right wing radicals that do something completely crazy. Like blow up a building in Oklahoma, kill a doctor that performs abortions, bombing a park during the olympics, and the list goes on and on........

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: dardin211
Yet it's always right wing radicals that do something completely crazy. Like blow up a building in Oklahoma, kill a doctor that performs abortions, bombing a park during the olympics, and the list goes on and on........

Quite often it is the right-wing fringe that do such things. However, when you think of people like McVeigh or abortion doctor killers, do you also immediately think 'Damn Republicans.'?

I don't believe most people do and, if not, why not? How'd they do that?

That pretty much goes directly to the previous talk of the Democrats disassociating themselves from the fringe left.

 

[Pandaren]

If what I think you are saying is correct, you believe that these "elitists" are stereotyping people like you. This kind of post isn't going to win you many points - it comes off as insulting, demeaning, and yes, elitist in its own right.

I don't think flag waving or churchgoing is stupid. I don't think having more than 2 kids is stupid. I certainly don't think guns are stupid.

What I do think is that many Americans are unaware that our government's policies have, over the past few decades caused a lot of needless death and suffering around the world. In Iran and Vietnam, and Central America and Israel/Palestine, American policies have been seen as unjust and unfair by the many of the local people. I do not see why thinking America is not undyingly good is such a strange concept. America is made up of its people, whom according to Christianity are all sinners, no matter how hard we try to be good. I don't see it as a stretch to conclude that America may very well have committed sins accross the world because we are only as pure as our population.

One could make the same characterizations of arrogance at "middle America," that people there believe that they are always right, that their morality is infalible, and that they know better when it comes to homosexuals and morals. However, many of my friends from my hometown are "middle Americans" and while I really disagree with them on many points, when it comes down to it they are people that I can still be friends with.

I don't think it is helpful at the end of this election cycle for either side to continue to demonize the other side. We should be worrying about those who want to kill us rather than those who simply disagree with us.

Originally posted by: cwjerome
...
I call these extremists the arrogant elitists.

They think middle America is stupid. They think our flag-waving is stupid and our churchgoing is stupid. They think having more than 2 kids is stupid and driving SUVs is stupid. They think where we live is stupid, our guns are stupid, and our undying belief in America's goodness is stupid. They think our beliefs are stupid, they think our votes are stupid, and they definately think GWB is stupid. Welcome to the land of the arrogant elites.
...
The elites are defined by a general outlook and supreme arrogance. They believe they are superior to others. They babble about "cultural centers" and studies about post-bac degrees. They know better. They are way ahead of us, and view the masses as primitive animals that they must sheperd. Our stupidity and vast numbers make us dangerous.
...

 

[Mursilis]

Nice post, CWJ. I do hope the Democrats learn something from this, as a good opposition party is important in our democracy.