Election 2004

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Polls showed that many people thought Iraq was going badly. Polls showed Americans were concerned with education, jobs, healthcare, and security. Polls showed a small majority believing that America was heading in the wrong direction! Yet amazingly, Bush was still elected.... why?? Some people around here have a clue, but they don't have a remedy. The overriding factor comes down to a very simple concept: morals and attitude.

Since 1980, conservative values have been marching steadily forward. Conservatism has deep roots and a powerful base. Even the anomaly of Clinton is explained by the fact that he was a very moderate centrist who never received more that 50% of the vote. The grip of conservatism is evidenced by the Reps holding both houses of Congress, the majority of governorships, and especially by Bush's re-election. As demonstrated by polls, people did not vote so much on issues... they voted for Bush the man.

This is because the Democratic Party may have legitimate ideas, but they are damaged goods. The Dems align themselves with Al Sharpton, Michael Moore, and Hollywood. The Dems embrace creepy websites like MoveOn.Org. The Dems are doomed to failure and are basically rudderless because of the vocal minority within their party that repulses moderate Americans. This dramatic shift to the left -while America remains basically conservative- is killing their chances at connecting with people and spreading their ideals. It's almost like how some radical extremists have hijacked moderate Islam, and taints any goodness that it has to offer. And like with that example, the reasonable Muslims are almost complicit in allowing for the dangerous fringe to fester and hurt the cause... such is the position of the Democratic Party. I call these extremists the arrogant elitists.

They think middle America is stupid. They think our flag-waving is stupid and our churchgoing is stupid. They think having more than 2 kids is stupid and driving SUVs is stupid. They think where we live is stupid, our guns are stupid, and our undying belief in America's goodness is stupid. They think our beliefs are stupid, they think our votes are stupid, and they definately think GWB is stupid. Welcome to the land of the arrogant elites.

The elites are defined by a general outlook and supreme arrogance. They believe they are superior to others. They babble about "cultural centers" and studies about post-bac degrees. They know better. They are way ahead of us, and view the masses as primitive animals that they must sheperd. Our stupidity and vast numbers make us dangerous.

They can label tens of millions of Americans as racist with the drop of a hat. They malign and impune 100+ million Americans as fundamentalist nuts without blinking. They demean our most basic foundations and institutions by saying they allow for Nazi leaders. They show contempt for the people by labeling whole populations fascist. They corrupt our history by viewing it as one American atrocity or failure after another. They are doom and gloom pessimists, and cynical to the core. Their hand-wringing, conceited, negative, "can't do" attitude is fundamentally un-American. They brains are too big for America... they have outgrown her and are ashamed of her.

THIS is what the American voice was saying on November 2nd. Bush was weak and easily defeatable. The fact that he passed while losing on the issues is a slap in the face and complete rejection of the values and morals eminating from the arrogant elites withing the Democratic Party. Until the Dems reform, they will be marginalized. They are lossing touch and failing to connect to mainstream America because of the hate and arrogance from the elites.

Many at this website will reactively attacked my words, not even realizing I am the one who is trying to help the Dems get with the program. Sometimes it takes a political outsider to provide a perspective that can't develop within the box. Take it for what it's worth.

:thumbsup:

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :beer:

OMG! B3ST P0S+ I EV@R R3AD!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

you mentioned hitler about 10 posts up...

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Perknose
Come out of your pillow fort bunker and visit any major American city and go to the openly gay section. Turn on HBO. See the bare boobies and hear the once taboo word "fvck" flung around. Or go watch Howard Stern's show. His T&A&FartJoke extravaganza couldn't have gotten on ANY major or minor media outlet in 1979. And I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, to learn that the internet is, almost more than anything else, one big pron delivery device.

These times, they are ALWAYS changing.

Something is happening, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

I do! I do!

It's entropy at work. Civilization is heading down the track to disorder. We have about as much of a chance of stopping it as we do of stopping global warming.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

you mentioned hitler about 10 posts up...

Really, Mrs Gunderson? Provide the quote then, and make sure you get it reich.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

you mentioned hitler about 10 posts up...

Really, Mrs Gunderson? Provide the quote then, and make sure you get it reich.

11/04/2004 09:20 PM

Yeats knew it, the cyclical rise and fall, in 1939 facing the specter of an all powerful Hitler. "All things fall and are built again / And those that build them again are gay" [old meaning]

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose
Come out of your pillow fort bunker and visit any major American city and go to the openly gay section. Turn on HBO. See the bare boobies and hear the once taboo word "fvck" flung around. Or go watch Howard Stern's show. His T&A&FartJoke extravaganza couldn't have gotten on ANY major or minor media outlet in 1979. And I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, to learn that the internet is, almost more than anything else, one big pron delivery device.

These times, they are ALWAYS changing.

Something is happening, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

I do! I do!

It's entropy at work. Civilization is heading down the track to disorder. We have about as much of a chance of stopping it as we do of stopping global warming.

Well, with a Bush EPA, you're at least half right.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

you mentioned hitler about 10 posts up...

Really, Mrs Gunderson? Provide the quote then, and make sure you get it reich.

11/04/2004 09:20 PM

Yeats knew it, the cyclical rise and fall, in 1939 facing the specter of an all powerful Hitler. "All things fall and are built again / And those that build them again are gay" [old meaning]

Ahem - Perk?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :beer:

OMG! B3ST P0S+ I EV@R R3AD!

Um, tabb?

Yeats knew it, the cyclical rise and fall, in 1939 facing the specter of an all powerful Hitler.

 

[illustri]

cwjerome, your touting of the Reagan administration only serves to illustrate my previous counterpoint to your notion of the demise of liberalism:

Americans said conservativism was dead in the 60's with watergate, again when lyndon johnson lost in the 70's but here it is still. Don't be too quick to write off a movement thats probably been with humanity as long as politics itself. Stupid

You're absolutely right that the neoconservatism began with Reagan; it was a revival in conservative values and ideology in response to the liberal advances of the decades before. Yes, that movement pervades to this day but I would stop before claiming that it was somehow won America over to the point it has caused a decline in the opposition. Liberal thought has been a part of this country ever since a bunch of colonials in 1776 decided to break off from tradition and carve a country out of some good ideas. I'll also repeat the question so many have posted in this thread: how you can argue the great success of conservatism when nearly every election (in the past 25 years) have been close? The presidential election for instance was decided by less than 3% of the voters, are you contending that that 48% of the American public suddenly no longer count?

Its not the confidence I have a problem with, its the arrogance (the same which you accuse others of) in every post without fact, every arguement without support, every "editorial" without discussion.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee


It's entropy at work. Civilization is heading down the track to disorder. We have about as much of a chance of stopping it as we do of stopping global warming.

Well, with a Bush EPA, you're at least half right.

You reallly are daft, aren't you?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

you mentioned hitler about 10 posts up...

Really, Mrs Gunderson? Provide the quote then, and make sure you get it reich.

11/04/2004 09:20 PM

Yeats knew it, the cyclical rise and fall, in 1939 facing the specter of an all powerful Hitler. "All things fall and are built again / And those that build them again are gay" [old meaning]

Ahem - Perk?

Busted! Of course, it was taken COMPLETLy out of context in your statement here:

I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

I admit when I'm wrong, would you be man enough to do the same now, al?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee


It's entropy at work. Civilization is heading down the track to disorder. We have about as much of a chance of stopping it as we do of stopping global warming.

Well, with a Bush EPA, you're at least half right.

You reallly are daft, aren't you?

If you can't do better than that, please go back to OT.

 

[arsbanned]

Morality is bombing the crap of another country, killing thousands of civilians, risking the lives of thousand's of our own troops, and using one of the nation's most catastrophic moments in history to advance their political agenda. Is that what you call morality?? Pleazzze!!!!!

If christ himself were to return today, he would ashamed at all of those religious folks that condone what he has done.

More women and children are being slaughtered in Iraq as I write this. Yeah, you Repubs really have a lock on "morality". You're fvcking ridiculously deluded.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

Ding! Ding! Ding! First to mention Hitler by name. You lose.

you mentioned hitler about 10 posts up...

Really, Mrs Gunderson? Provide the quote then, and make sure you get it reich.

11/04/2004 09:20 PM

Yeats knew it, the cyclical rise and fall, in 1939 facing the specter of an all powerful Hitler. "All things fall and are built again / And those that build them again are gay" [old meaning]

Ahem - Perk?

Busted! Of course, it was taken COMPLETLy out of context in your statement here:

I guess I don't quite see it. Unless you are equating Carter and Moore and Soros to Hitler and the Taliban?

I admit when I'm wrong, would you be man enough to do the same now, al?

******crickets******

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee


It's entropy at work. Civilization is heading down the track to disorder. We have about as much of a chance of stopping it as we do of stopping global warming.

Well, with a Bush EPA, you're at least half right.

You reallly are daft, aren't you?

If you can't do better than that, please go back to OT.

If you don't think civilization is headed to disorder, then you are daft. Perhaps if I called you a bigot or a bible-thumper, I'd fit in better, but that's not my style.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee


It's entropy at work. Civilization is heading down the track to disorder. We have about as much of a chance of stopping it as we do of stopping global warming.

Well, with a Bush EPA, you're at least half right.

You reallly are daft, aren't you?

If you can't do better than that, please go back to OT.

If you don't think civilization is headed to disorder, then you are daft. Perhaps if I called you a bigot or a bible-thumper, I'd fit in better, but that's not my style.

No, you have to call him a liberal with some elitist arrogant remark at the end.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee


It's entropy at work. Civilization is heading down the track to disorder. We have about as much of a chance of stopping it as we do of stopping global warming.

Well, with a Bush EPA, you're at least half right.

You reallly are daft, aren't you?

If you can't do better than that, please go back to OT.

If you don't think civilization is headed to disorder, then you are daft. Perhaps if I called you a bigot or a bible-thumper, I'd fit in better, but that's not my style.

If you can't look back upon the broad, millenia wide sweep of social and political progress, then you are something well south of merely daft, my friend.

Mankind, despite it's many presistant tribulations, is collectively better off than it has ever been. Don't believe me? Then please show me a time and a place aforehand where things were collectively better.

The Golden age of Greece perhaps? Greek civilization was and democracy was built on slaves, and most of the rest of manking in the world was living a Hobbesian nightmare.

But, hey, knock yourself out. Provide a cherished example, and I'll gladly expose it.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Then please show me a time and a place aforehand where things were collectively better.

Non-sequitur alert. I don't think I ever said anything was "better" or "worse". "Better" happens to be a personal opinion.

Civilization is moving to a less structured form; entropy is at work.

Provide a cherished example, and I'll gladly expose it.

I think everybody here, on either side will agree with me when I ask you to please not "expose it."

edit:Like your sig, BTW:

Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.
Albert Einstein

 

[FuzzyBee]

edit != quote

 

[cwjerome]

What a bunch of reactionary pap. Take perknose: he represents the arrogant elites more than anyone. His view of conservatism is based on his hippie days, getting stoked and railing against "the man." Now that he's sold out and joined reality, he still lashes out in his little imaginary bubble just to feed his psychological need to hate and feel superior. Everything -EVERYTHING- he said is typical one-sided scrappings from any old 10 cent liberal comic book. Ohhh look, those nasty conservatives, the root of all evil. God... at least rational leftists can rise above the partisan stereotypes and say something halfway original. This is the same sh*t some red-faced Freshmen was screaming at my campus almost 15 years ago.

Say what you want about "inclusion", make your retard observations about how blacks are no longer slaves (really, thanks for that), and yammer on in your beautiful words you're so proud of, because you're making a non-existent point about nothing. Nothing you say applies to me because you don't know d!ck about me. Rob9874, this bozo thinks I'm some religious puritan who would gasp at porn and wants women to stay home barefoot and pregnant! LOL, you've done a real nice job of pigeonholing me, like any good arrogant elitist would... and as usual, you have no idea about me, my ideas, conservatism, or America.

Perknose is another perfect example of my OP, and he doesn't even have the wherewithall to notice or care. Their founding principle is they are better and more enlightened than the poor slobs who make up the backbone of America. Notice the way he loves to correct people's spelling and grammar in other topics. See how he uses obscure references and big words to sharpen his sarcasm. He sees me like he sees anyone who challenges his presumption of superiority and unblinking self-worship: a primitive creature who yearns to establish a 1000-year conservative Reich. Uhhhh.... The clown doesn't even read my words as I try and promote a better atmosphere by trying to strengthen the marketplace of ideas and bring people together. Instead of the arrogant elites making huge, ignorant generalizations and ripping into half the population of the United States-- which only leads to more polarization, more hate, hurts their cause and leads to single party rule with the opposition (all dangerous), I'm suggesting a more moderate approach to actually understand the "other side", respect differences, and see them as human beings. THAT is the way to reach out and institute change. A reasonable, moderate, rational society will promote those things that Perknose claims to want.

The arrogant elites are so sure of their greatness and smarts, so certain of their personal infallibility, that they have no patience for such things... they can only continuously screech about how evil and backwards "those" people are. As they do so, they alienate the mainstream and isolate themselves. That's my point. Anyone interested in true social change and advancement knows we need a healthy political debate in this country, not the hateful, arroganct wailings of a putrid minority. They are doing more harm than any religious nut or homophobe could possibly do.... they promote more division and extremism and exacerbate the very problems they bitch and moan about.

This is the problem... people like perknose and their ideas having too much weight in the Democratic Party. The Democrats can't continue to write off middle and lower class working people who love America and have fairly conservative values. They are losing in the marketplace of ideas because of this. There are more registered Dems in this country, yet many vote Rep because of this fact. If every Dem in Ohio voted straight ticket, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for a Rep to win. The Dems are losing their populist base by embracing the arrogant elites. They don't have their finger on the pulse of middle America anymore... in fact, they openly despise it. Their just a bunch of hicks who live in "fly-over" country. More and more people are growing major resentment against these "east-coast" pretensions. The arrogant elites just fuel the flames.

Ask yourself this: can Hillary Clinton carry any of the "red" states from the 2004 election? Of course not. The Dems need to be thinking about HOW they can do that, how they can reach those people... not listening to the ravings of the arrogant elites accuse all those people of being racist, stupid, religious nuts. Give me a break. When -if- the Deomcratic Party comes back to the center some, the gradual and natural process of societal evolution can be maximized. The only way to soften extremism is by engaging in a *healthy* exchange of ideas in a competitive yet rational and civil discourse. This country needs the Dems to come back to the table, not marginalize themselves more.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Their founding principle is they are better and more enlightened than the poor slobs who make up the backbone of America.

Are you saying the backbone of America is made of poor slobs?!?!

 

[cwjerome]

Tabb, don't be an idiot. I'm speaking of the arrogant elitist attitude.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Tabb, don't be an idiot. I'm speaking of the arrogant elitist attitude.

You didn't specificy.