Election could have been hacked in 3 swing states

[woolfe9998]

Would have been exceedingly difficult to pull such a thing off. I said the same thing when Trump supporters were arguing this before election day. The logic has not changed based on the electoral outcome. Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[Paratus]

What these guys are saying is if you stratify winners and losers of counties by the type of voting machine, you should see a split that more or less parallels the overall trends of the state.

However what they are seeing is that if you stratify counties by machine type, there is a major difference in the behavior of those voters compared to the background for the overall population. For example if you compare red counties with machine only to all the red counties with paper trails, they are noting a 7% difference.

So either you are arguing that machines with no paper trails make people vote Republican even more fervently, or that counties that use only machines with no paper trails have some other NATURAL reason for tending to vote Republican even above the rate of the rest of the state or there is something going on.

Honestly if the data is really there and it meets criteria for significance, I'm not sure which is the more plausible explanation.

Interesting.

Reminds me of the situation the Allies were in during WWII and dramatized in the Imitation Game and Neal Stephenson novel Cryptonomicon. If you hack your enemy what can you do before they realize you've hacked them and they take action to remove your advantage.

If you go out and sink every Axis convoy even the ones in the dark then they are going to know almost immediately.

If you only sink the most critical convoys you can go longer befor they eventually catch on.

The same thing applies here. It's very difficult to mess with an election without it being obvious. If you hacked a bunch of voting machines you'd have to know which counties in which states ahead of time otherwise it would be obvious they had been tampered with.

The hacking would have to be subtle. Something like this would be found out immediately:

If VoteCount(DTJ)<=VoteCount(HRC) then
   VoteCount(DTJ) = Bigly
   VoteCount(HRC) = Sad
End If

So they think they found something. They should investigate but it's more likely to be nothing other than a statistical discrepancy rather than fraud.

The fraud this year was out in the open as gerrymandering and voter suppression.

 

[buckshot24]

Hacking or not, what this shows is that voting machines w/o paper trails are a very, very bad idea, basically an abomination.

Recount? OK. clickety-clickety-clack. tap tap. <enter> Yep, we win.

Totally agree with you here.

 

[Vic]

I don't believe that the election results should be changed. Just that liberals should go out and buy as many guns as they can, and then passive aggressively intimidate their political opposition as much as possible while spreading the word that the President is illegitimate, un-American, and in league with hostile foreign powers.
IOW, the same as the last 8 years but with the partisan roles reversed.

 

[mrjminer]

No evidence, but suggest an audit of results because ... Hillary lost? I'm surprised people have tears left to flow at this point.

Anyways, guaranteed they won't challenge any result under any circumstance. The last thing the Democrats want is an audit of voters. So, let's do it. I am for auditing the results. Let's go with all 50 states, though. All counties, all districts, all polling locations, all early and absentee ballots -- everything. No stone unturned. I just signed the change.org petition; let's audit the fuck out of all of the results across the board.

 

[Mandres]

Nope, no evidence that this happened. Nate Silver tested this and when you control for race and education (as you should) the effect of paper vs. electronic ballots totally disappears (p value of .992 = absolutely nothing)

Do you have a link by chance?

 

[OutHouse]

The computer scientists believe they have found evidence that vote totals in the three states could have been manipulated

lol, yea ok. {eye roll}

 

[Roflmouth]

Hilarious the lengths these fucking idiots will go to blame their humiliating election loss on anyone but themselves

 

[Sunburn74]

Nope, no evidence that this happened. Nate Silver tested this and when you control for race and education (as you should) the effect of paper vs. electronic ballots totally disappears (p value of .992 = absolutely nothing)

Interesting. can you provide a link to his eval of these new claims ?

 

[fskimospy]

Do you have a link by chance?

The image I posted was one he linked of what looks like STATA regression output. The important thing for this purpose is that he's looking for a relationship between change in Clinton votes (clintonshift) and paper ballots (paper...duh). The P>|t| figure tells you how likely it is that the effect of paper ballots is zero (ie: no electronic voting conspiracy). It should be less than .05 for it to be statistically significant and in this case it's basically 1, meaning it's not even close. If it were somewhere even close to .05 that might say something but the fact that this effect so completely disappears after controlling for a few basic things strongly indicates that this isn't a real problem.

I don't think he's done a written evaluation of it outside of posting that image on his twitter feed, but with results that 'bad' for an electronic machine conspiracy the odds are strongly against it being a real thing.

 

[Zaap]

So when Dems had problems with the ballot box (the party of hanging chads!) it was "we must move to machines!"

Now the machines show some different result unfavorable to Hillary...

It couldn't be that the 7% difference is fraud with the ballot boxes IN HER FAVOR could it?

WHY OF COURSE NOT!

The machines must be rigged, not the ballots this time!

 

[werepossum]

I'm highly skeptical, but if they have data this alleged source can release it openly. Getting it reported with no evidence is not meaningful.

This part near the end of the article is also pretty misleading:

Seems pretty heavily implied that these are electors from states that voted from Trump when actually they're Hillary's: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...oping-for-an-electoral-college-revolt/508433/

Dishonest press is dishonest. Literally no one is surprised.

If only proggies had some sort of organization to help them Move On. Maybe something Web based . . .

Thread title: "election hacked in 3 states". Actual article: ".... they had not found any evidence of hacking".

So they don't have any evidence of any hacking, but something must be wrong because she didn't win those states. Sounds solid.

It's really the only possible answer.

this is a riot, you have the president and others on record saying that there is no way election results can be manipulated, that they have the utmost faith in the process all while Trump said it was "rigged" and now those who said there was nothing to worry about would be the ones to contest the results on the basis of fraud and manipulation....good luck with that, maybe if they all kept their mouths shut instead of bleating on and on about how rock solid the system was but I would love to see the spin put on Hillary opening up that can of worms.

In fairness to the Democrats, they thought there was no way they could lose.

 

[umbrella39]

This is just a retarded a notion now as it was before the election when TrumpTards were suggesting it was a possibility...

 

[werepossum]

I'm investing in Reynold's Wrap.

Aluminum foil, Kleenex, and bus rentals are mo' debinitely the investment opportunities of 2017. Oh, and graphic arts/printing companies, for the mass production of "grass roots" protest signs.

 

[agent00f]

Hilarious the lengths these fucking idiots will go to blame their humiliating election loss on anyone but themselves

Yeah it's pretty humiliating the influence of uneducated alt-white power. Perhaps not terribly unexpected but still embarrassing as a country.

The greater point to this thread is that even if this were true trumpsters won't give a shit. They love putin anyway and once people like that taste power it's you or them.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Since Trump predicted a rigged election if he lost can we still check if a rigged election gave him the win?

 

[Zaap]

Aluminum foil, Kleenex, and bus rentals are mo' debinitely the investment opportunities of 2017. Oh, and graphic arts/printing companies, for the mass production of "grass roots" protest signs.

Come on, remember the mantra...

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no..."


Hillary loses.


"THE MACHINES WERE HAAACCCKED!!!"

 

[ivwshane]

Come on, remember the mantra...

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no..."


Hillary loses.


"THE MACHINES WERE HAAACCCKED!!!"

So who is right? Who was lying?

 

[Vic]

Since Trump predicted a rigged election if he lost can we still check if a rigged election gave him the win?

Hey, it's not that Trumpers don't know that they just elected the most corrupt and amoral President ever, it's just that they don't care.

 

[Roflmouth]

Yeah it's pretty humiliating the influence of uneducated alt-white power.

Trump won among college-educated whites. How embarrassing for you.

 

[Pens1566]

Trump won among college-educated whites. How embarrassing for you.

By a narrower margin than Romney did, while ALL college grads were won by Clinton by 9%. Meanwhile, NON college grads went overwhelmingly for Trump. Which was kind of the point of the post you quoted. So, uh, yeah what was it you thought refuted him again?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...s-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

 

[MovingTarget]

Come on, remember the mantra...

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no..."


Hillary loses.


"THE MACHINES WERE HAAACCCKED!!!"

Perhaps a few are 'jumping the gun' here, but most of us don't want a repeat of 2000 even if it means we have to endure four years of the orange one. I'm reserving judgement here. There's a possible reason to investigate this, nothing more. We will know more as the final returns and analysis come in. The key difference here between the GOP and the Democratic Party is that we don't scream VOTER FRAUD over and over again in an attempt to justify policies that suppress voting, plugging our ears and closing our eyes to the data that would support or discredit the claim.

 

[fskimospy]

Come on, remember the mantra...

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no such thing as voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with."

"There is no..."


Hillary loses.


"THE MACHINES WERE HAAACCCKED!!!"

Okay this argument is either really dumb or really dishonest. The statement is there is no such thing as in person voter fraud in any amount worth even bothering with. In fact, one of the arguments as to why this sort of fraud doesn't exist is that any even modestly intelligent fraudster would target something at the polling station itself, like the machines.

The evidence available seems to indicate that there was no malfeasance in this case. That being said, your argument against it is still stupid.

 

[cubby1223]

Clinton and liberals don't fight to the death so I doubt we'll be seeing her file suit.

Having said that, even if trump remained president elect, it would be some sweet irony if election fraud was found. I can only imagine the spin and denial the right would be in trying to argue there isn't any election fraud.

You're ever-so-enlightened in everything you do!

The left has been fighting tooth & nail against the notion there ever is any election fraud. What are they going to do if it is revealed voter fraud is real and can and does affect outcomes? The Democrats have positioned themselves on the stance that anything to eliminate potential voter fraud is inherently discriminative against minorities. Democrats supporting anti-fraud initiatives would now be a contradiction against their platform.

Republicans, on the other hand, can still stand by their stance that voter fraud exists and steps should be taken towards eliminating fraud.

 

[fskimospy]

You're ever-so-enlightened in everything you do!

The left has been fighting tooth & nail against the notion there ever is any election fraud. What are they going to do if it is revealed voter fraud is real and can and does affect outcomes? The Democrats have positioned themselves on the stance that anything to eliminate potential voter fraud is inherently discriminative against minorities. Democrats supporting anti-fraud initiatives would now be a contradiction against their platform.

Republicans, on the other hand, can still stand by their stance that voter fraud exists and steps should be taken towards eliminating fraud.

Oh look, you tried this one too. Democrats have most certainly not claimed that there is never any election fraud, in fact they have been at the forefront of saying how election fraud is a possibility. What they have said is that there is no election fraud of the type that voter ID laws would prevent, and they are totally correct there as a result of both the evidence and basic common sense.

My good friend cubby, if you want to argue against a position you at least owe it to yourself to argue against a real, honest position. Even if you don't care about honestly portraying what other people think you can probably have a way more entertaining conversation if you're discussing real things. Think how much more fun it will be!