Electric Heating for House?

[MistaFreeze]

Is there anyway to heat up a house in the cold MN winters efficiently via electricity? I saw one of them being a heat pump but the website stated they're only good for mild climates. Just something I was pondering.

 

[highland145]

Heck no. Mine doesn't do a good job down here.

Gas logs, FTW, though.

 

[Scotteq]

Electric heat is very expensive.

 

[K1052]

Ground source heat pump system. Plus ensure house is properly insulated and doesn't leak air excessively.

 

[jaedaliu]

Electricity is expensive when compared to other energy sources for heat (oil, natural gas, wood)

A heat pump is super efficient, and is probably cost-comparable to the other sources, but does not operate at low temperatures. Well, I think they do, but they can only bring up the temperature ~20 degrees above the outside temperature. So, they're pretty useless for a Minnesota winter.

 

[acheron]

My parents have a heat pump in N. Ohio -- not "mild", but not Minnesota either. A heat pump system will have supplemental/"emergency" heat for when it's too cold, but it's not very efficient. If you're going to need the supplemental heat a lot, it's not worth it. I'm guessing Minnesota is probably a no go.

 

[skimple]

...says the people that have never used a heat-pump....

I live in upstate NY and use a split-stage heat pump for my house for 16 years, and never have any problems, even this past winter when it was bitter cold.

One of the oddities is that a heat-pump doesn't run "hot", which means that the heat coming from your registers doesn't feel hot like with a gas or oil furnance. It feels "room temperature". So, where a gas furnance will turn on, blast the house with heat, and then turn off, a heat pump runs constantly in cold weather. But it is over 90% efficient.

The heat pump extracts heat even from bitter cold air. In practice, my heat pump can raise the temperature of my house about 30-40 degrees from the outside air. After that, we have back up electric resistive heat, which is turned on by the furnace only when needed.

Here is an example of my electric usage for two years. I have a 1800 sq. ft house, and it is completely electric, so this includes washer/dryer, electric stove, lighting, heat, christmas lights, etc.

You can plug in your electric rate to get an idea of what your costs would be.

And keep in mind that it also serves as an air conditioner in the summer, and my summer usage includes air conditioning.

read date KWH
6/1/2010 1502
5/3/2010 1706
4/1/2010 2240
3/1/2010 3079
2/1/2010 3209
1/4/2010 3713
12/1/2009 1888
11/2/2009 1790
10/1/2009 1227
9/1/2009 1483
8/3/2009 1560
7/1/2009 1383
6/1/2009 1592
5/1/2009 2089
4/1/2009 2657
3/2/2009 3285
2/2/2009 4043
1/2/2009 3434
12/1/2008 1984
11/3/2008 1710
10/1/2008 1155
9/2/2008 1262
8/1/2008 1220

 

[skimple]

And don't believe people that claim that "electricity is expensive". There are so many factors in play that such a generic statement cannot be proven.

In my community, with my electric rates, my electricity bill in the winter is HALF of what my friends pay for gas alone. ($200 vs. $400)

Contact an HVAC company in your area to come out and give you an analysis. You could save a lot of money by shutting off gas/oil. But you have to run the numbers.

 

[DrPizza]

You misphrased your question. Heating with electricity is pretty much 100% efficient. The problem is that in many communities, it's expensive. In some communities, electricity is cheap. My sister's old condo was in a Suburb of Rochester; her electric bill - with electric heat, was under $100, even in the winter. 75 miles away, I'm lucky if my electric drops below $100 for a month during the year.

 

[Genx87]

Electricty is expensive. Ran our electric heat at our cabin in April in MN for 2 days. Cost was nearly 40 bucks. Outside temp was in the 30s. That would be a 600 dollar electricity bill if we lived there full time. Gas would probably be 1/3rd of that.

 

[cabri]

Heat pumps are great as long as the temp gradient is not that large. (see post above).

Now if you can also use ground loops to draw the heat (more $$ but larger temp gradient), you can make out like a bandit.

The issue with using electricity is that while you can control the areas to be warmed better, you are paying the extra cost to create the electricity from another power source. Much will depend on who controls the cost of electric (utility) vs other heating sources (gas/oil/propane).

As others have said, insulate and caulking should be the first step to be energy efficient, not matter what the source.

If going electric controls on a room by room basis, consider also insulating the interior walls and floors; that helps prevents heat transfer from a warmer room to a shut off room.

Parents had electric up in central NH. The most rooms were kept off unless needed. Walking into one during the winter from a regular active room was almost as bad as going outside. Us kids would forget to turn down a thermostat after using a room, they put on motion detectors to automatically shut down after 10 minutes.

 

[amdskip]

I had a heat pump in an apartment a few years back. I was used to forced hot air and the heat pump was very annoying to me. I don't know why some places push them so much in cold climates as it did not work all that well for me (Northern IL).

 

[lupi]

Go geo.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Electric heat is actually very efficient (near 100% actually) but the problem is, it's so damn expensive. In terms of cost natural gas is the way to go. Wood is nice as a supplementary heat as well. At some point I want to look at getting a high efficiency wood stove in my basement so I can throw some logs in on the -50 days so the furnace is not working so hard.

If I was generating my own electricity, then I'd go electric but with the current hydro rates gas is cheaper. though gas has went up quite a lot too. My bill just went from $100/mo to $175/mo. They got approved to raise the rates.

 

[Virge_]

Cryptcoin mining rigs work really well. Didn't run the heater all winter and we had a few -20 degree days!

 

[Imp]

Cryptcoin mining rigs work really well. Didn't run the heater all winter and we had a few -20 degree days!

lulz... My TV and computer kept me slightly warmer the past winter. As did the furnace directly below my room.

In theory, every watt you draw from the wall outlet eventually breaks down into heat energy (i.e. contributes towards heating your house). If natural gas is cheaper than electricity in your area, it'd still be cheaper to use gas.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I didn't have natural gas in my home when I bought it, but called the gas company and found it was just across the street. They ran a line for me (free of charge) and I had my HVAC unit replaced with an American Standard Heritage 15 heat pump with an 80k BTU 95% efficient gas furnace. When the temp goes below 40, the gas comes on. (set in my thermostat)

This system significantly dropped my energy costs. You could do something similar with Propane, but those prices are typically higher than natural gas. If you can only do propane, make sure you buy a very large tank and fill it up when/if you see the price drop. Don't get stuck like a ton of people did this winter.

 

[HomerSapien]

Electricity is expensive when compared to other energy sources for heat (oil, natural gas, wood)

A heat pump is super efficient, and is probably cost-comparable to the other sources, but does not operate at low temperatures. Well, I think they do, but they can only bring up the temperature ~20 degrees above the outside temperature. So, they're pretty useless for a Minnesota winter.

Pretty much this.

We had a heat pump in southeast new mexico. It was fine between 30-40F but any lower and we had to switch to emergency heat. We always had a few weeks in the tens, but not to many. We had a single story brick home (1800sqft) with a decent energy efficiency for the age of the house. Those few weeks would skyrocket the bill and offset any savings from the rest of the year.

Not to mention, the cost to replace a heat pump (where I lived) was always a 1-2k above other types of heating/cooling units.

 

[Zenmervolt]

One of the oddities is that a heat-pump doesn't run "hot", which means that the heat coming from your registers doesn't feel hot like with a gas or oil furnance. It feels "room temperature". So, where a gas furnance will turn on, blast the house with heat, and then turn off, a heat pump runs constantly in cold weather. But it is over 90% efficient.

A heat pump should not be running constantly in winter. If it's running constantly, then the problem is that it's not able to keep up with the heating demand. Or that the fan is wired to be running even when the heat pump isn't running itself. I've lived in houses with heat pumps here in Seattle. They're great options here because of our mild winters and they definitely do not "run constantly in cold weather."

Here, our electric company starts going into punitive rate increases once a home's usage is over 600 kw/h per month. I cannot imagine using close to 4,000 kw/h per month for 1800 square foot like you do in winter. That's a metric crap-ton of electricity. Here in Seattle that sort of usage would mean a $400/month electric bill.

That's more than an extra $300/month over my normal usage (at a house with all-electric appliances and on a well that uses a 2-hp electric pump to supply water).

ZV

 

[railer]

And don't believe people that claim that "electricity is expensive". There are so many factors in play that such a generic statement cannot be proven.

In my community, with my electric rates, my electricity bill in the winter is HALF of what my friends pay for gas alone. ($200 vs. $400)

Contact an HVAC company in your area to come out and give you an analysis. You could save a lot of money by shutting off gas/oil. But you have to run the numbers.

What are you paying for electric anyway? I'm a little skeptical of that chart, as past data I've seen always shows wood as being the cheapest.

 

[fstime]

What are you paying for electric anyway? I'm a little skeptical of that chart, as past data I've seen always shows wood as being the cheapest.

How come it has oil heat costing the same as natural gas?

 

[MongGrel]

Depends where ya live.

 

[bradley]

Heat pumps are great as long as the temp gradient is not that large. (see post above).

Now if you can also use ground loops to draw the heat (more $$ but larger temp gradient), you can make out like a bandit.

Heat pump tech has changed a lot in the last three years.... Copeland makes an excellent variable speed scroll compressor. It basically utilizes a DC brushless motor along with other tweaks. Since 2011, Carrier has been using it in their Greenspeed line and is getting 13HSPF (and 21SEER cooling,) which is extremely impressive.

In combination with a variable speed air-handler it allows a linear 100% efficiency down to 15F with the 2 and 3-ton units and 5F with the 4 and 5-ton units.

http://www.allseasonsheating.com/Products.htm

Carrier GreenSpeed 25VNA Heat Pump- Fact vs. Fiction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzhTiFmaU1A

The next generation of Copeland will be even better with slightly higher HSPF and much higher 25SEER cooling, probably will be released in the next year or two. Suddenly that initial large investment of digging ground loops doesn't look as prudent.

Copeland Scroll Variable Speed Technology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69zvzWA-vBk

 

[bradley]

A heat pump should not be running constantly in winter.

In general heating climates, you want to oversize your heatpump by at least half a ton. Although a dual-stage or variable speed compressor/condenser should be running constantly in the winter.

 

[bradley]

As others have said, insulate and caulking should be the first step to be energy efficient, not matter what the source.

Best bang-for-the-buck air-resistant insulation would be EPS foam sealed on the edges with closed cell foam spray, or cellulose is another really good option.... both are also extremely fire-resistant.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HowToHomeInsulation/videos

Also *properly installed* radiant barriers work very well for *very little* investment for the DIY.
https://www.youtube.com/user/AtticFoil

I lowered my bills dramatically enough that the local utility insisted on paying a visit.