Electrical question

[FP]

I was chatting with a friend today and we couldn't agree on what would happen in this situation...

Let's say you had a free standing vanity made of wood, with your run-of-the-mill ceramic sink on top filled with tap water. What would happen if you stuck the hot wire (ONLY the hot wire, the neutral and ground wires are out of the water completely) in the sink full of water? Would the circuit trip?

 

[wedi42]

maybe,
water/piping could complete the circuit.
really depends on what kind of plumbing is being used.

why don't you try it and let us know?

 

[bctbct]

probably, the sink is most likely grounded by the plumbing.

 

[FP]

Plumbing wouldn't matter other than the waste pipe which is usually ABS (plastic) piping.

I thought the circuit wouldn't trip.

 

[Canai]

Yes. Usually in town the ground goes to the plumbing where it comes into the house. Drainstop = metal, pipes are metal, complete circuit

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: binister
Plumbing wouldn't matter other than the waste pipe which is usually ABS (plastic) piping.

I thought the circuit wouldn't trip.

That's was my first thought.

 

[dullard]

How clean is the water? Relatively pure water doesn't conduct electricity very well at all. Put some salt in there, and you have a different story. Plus the sink plumbing COULD be all plastic, so the current could have no where to go (I realize this isn't common plumbing).

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: binister
Plumbing wouldn't matter other than the waste pipe which is usually ABS (plastic) piping.

I thought the circuit wouldn't trip.

That's was my first thought.

so it would depend on the type of plumbing then...

In the sh!tty ancient house I lived in last year, the pipes were lead and anodized (I think is the right word) steel.

My parents house is a lot of PVC and copper.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: dullard
How clean is the water. Relatively pure water doesn't conduct very well at all. Put some salt in there, and you have a different story. Plus the sink plumbing COULD be all plastic, so the current could have no where to go (I realize this isn't common plumbing).

Tap water does conduct though, and I'd assume the water in the sink would be from the tap

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Canai
Tap water does conduct though, and I'd assume the water in the sink would be from the tap

This is ATOT, we cannot make assumptions like that until we type a long conclusive argument. (Then the original poster will change the assumption to a case that no one else could have imagined to prove us wrong.) I'm fighting back in this thread and not assuming anything.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Canai
Tap water does conduct though, and I'd assume the water in the sink would be from the tap

This is ATOT, we cannot make assumptions like that until we type a long conclusive argument. (Then the original poster will change the assumption to a case that no one else could have imagined to prove us wrong.) I'm fighting back in this thread and not assuming anything.

Perhaps he had several jugs of distilled water that he needed to dispose of, but the sink was clogged...

 

[bctbct]

Could be a cast iron sink w/crack or chip thus grounded to the copper or iron supply lines.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: bctbct
probably, the sink is most likely grounded by the plumbing.

FTW

 

[ecopure]

The circuit breaker would not trip. When I was visiting "cough cough" a county jail in CA I witnessed a few people boiling water by zapping it. "they" would take the power cord off of a clock , strip the ends to about 2 inches and submerse it into a cup of water . Within a few minutes it would start boiling.....then SOUP !!!

 

[Canai]

Jails are wired a little differently than houses

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: ecopure
The circuit breaker would not trip. When I was visiting "cough cough" a county jail in CA I witnessed a few people boiling water by zapping it. "they" would take the power cord off of a clock , strip the ends to about 2 inches and submerse it into a cup of water . Within a few minutes it would start boiling.....then SOUP !!!

did the cup have plumbing?

 

[FP]

Originally posted by: ecopure
The circuit breaker would not trip. When I was visiting "cough cough" a county jail in CA I witnessed a few people boiling water by zapping it. "they" would take the power cord off of a clock , strip the ends to about 2 inches and submerse it into a cup of water . Within a few minutes it would start boiling.....then SOUP !!!

:Q

 

[dullard]

Be back soon.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: binister

Originally posted by: ecopure
The circuit breaker would not trip. When I was visiting "cough cough" a county jail in CA I witnessed a few people boiling water by zapping it. "they" would take the power cord off of a clock , strip the ends to about 2 inches and submerse it into a cup of water . Within a few minutes it would start boiling.....then SOUP !!!

:Q

You think that's interesting? The real bastard prisoners will start boiling up piss and sh!t and throw it at the guards working that block.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: dullard
Be back soon.

Or maybe not

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: ecopure
The circuit breaker would not trip. When I was visiting "cough cough" a county jail in CA I witnessed a few people boiling water by zapping it. "they" would take the power cord off of a clock , strip the ends to about 2 inches and submerse it into a cup of water . Within a few minutes it would start boiling.....then SOUP !!!

There is a difference. The bottom of the cup DOESN'T contain the drain pipe that is connected to the plumbing.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Canai
Perhaps he had several jugs of distilled water that he needed to dispose of, but the sink was clogged...

Ok, I'll give up on the pure water. Lets use the midpoint of the drinking water conductivity given here. Lets say the conductivity is 0.005 S/m. Lets also say the wire is 0.025 m from the nearest conductor (a metal drain) and that it travels through water with a cross-sectional area of 5*10^-4 m^2. That is, the current flows through a 1" diameter hole a distance of 1" until it hits a conductive drain. Also, assume the resistance elsewhere is 0 ohms.

R = L/(C*A)

Thus, the resistance of the water is 10000 ohms. At 120V, you'll get 0.012 A of current. That won't blow the circuit.

Ok, lets say your water is right at the dirty end of drinking water. Lets use the conductivity of 0.05 S/m. Resistance is 1000 ohm, current is 0.12 A. Again, the circuit breaker won't go.

Ok, lets use allowable conductivity limits for tap water. Yes, that is a UK link, but it was the top of a Google search. Conductivity is now 0.15 S/m. Resistance = 334 ohms. Current = 0.36A. Again, not enough.

We will have to move the wire closer to the condutive metal or have quite dirty water to get into the 15A range to blow a typical circuit.

This is a simplification, but I think it is somewhat close to the numbers to expect.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy

Originally posted by: dullard
Be back soon.

Or maybe not

I made a minor math error (off by a factor of ~5) and deleted the post. It is now posted again. Hopefully there are no more errors.

 

[ecopure]

"There is a difference. The bottom of the cup DOESN'T contain the drain pipe that is connected to the plumbing. "

No but one of the wires is neutral which is connected to ground at the panel

 

[VTHodge]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Canai
Perhaps he had several jugs of distilled water that he needed to dispose of, but the sink was clogged...

Ok, I'll give up on the pure water. Lets use the midpoint of the drinking water conductivity given here. Lets say the conductivity is 0.005 S/m. Lets also say the wire is 0.025 m from the nearest conductor (a metal drain) and that it travels through water with a cross-sectional area of 5*10^-4 m^2. That is, the current flows through a 1" diameter hole a distance of 1" until it hits a conductive drain. Also, assume the resistance elsewhere is 0 ohms.

R = L/(C*A)

Thus, the resistance of the water is 10000 ohms. At 120V, you'll get 0.012 A of current. That won't blow the circuit.

Ok, lets say your water is right at the dirty end of drinking water. Lets use the conductivity of 0.05 S/m. Resistance is 1000 ohm, current is 0.12 A. Again, the circuit breaker won't go.

Ok, lets use allowable conductivity limits for tap water. Yes, that is a UK link, but it was the top of a Google search. Conductivity is now 0.15 S/m. Resistance = 334 ohms. Current = 0.36A. Again, not enough.

We will have to move the wire closer to the condutive metal or have quite dirty water to get into the 15A range to blow a typical circuit.

This is a simplification, but I think it is somewhat close to the numbers to expect.

We haven't factored in the cleanliness of the sink prior to filling. There is probably some dust and maybe even toothpaste residue. Conductivity through the roof. OP might also be a sink urinator. If there is any pee in that sink, that just ruins all asumptions.