Elevating the atheism/religion discussion

[sandorski]

Look, I understand from previous posts on this type of topic you have a very negative opinion of Christianity. But to doubt something beyond our understanding is simply replacing one faith with another.

You probably interact with very religious people everyday. I doubt any are irrational. There are extremes in anything. And if you were affected by one of those extremes, then perhaps now is a time to heal and at least give an open hearing to what Christianity really is and means.

No, that's silly.

I used to be a Christian. I gave it more than an open hearing. It failed to keep me convinced.

 

[disappoint]

I gave religion my best shot.
I tried to believe I really did.
I threw every effort I could at it.
I read material on the subject far and wide.
I tried, I really tried.
In the end,

Religion failed
To convince me.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You can't demand that someone proves a negative and seriously argue that not being able to prove a positive is the same. We've been over Russel's Teapot already, so I don't need to go there again.

We can't, yet, disprove a divine being somewhere in the universe (or that is the universe. Or isn't the universe). We can't disprove, in a way that satisfies a religious person, that Moses parted the seas, because a miracle does not play by the laws of physics. It's magic.

If you claim God exist, burden of proof is on you.
If you claim dragons exist, the burden of proof is on you.
If you claim you can cure cancer with a new drug, the burden of proof is on you.

If you hold religious claims to the same standards as other claims, religion wont hold up. People of faith demand negatives to be proven, atheists demand positives to be proven. The one is irrational and the other is rational.

you came to the party late...the same old Atheist talking points......
You say you cannot claim that something doesn`t exist...yet you want Christians to prove that God does exist...how convenient....

 

[moonbogg]

I gave religion my best shot.
I tried to believe I really did.
I threw every effort I could at it.
I read material on the subject far and wide.
I tried, I really tried.
In the end,

Religion failed
To convince me.

Same. Used to cry on Easter and everything. It's alright though. Even the best of us can be fooled into believing a lie.
Wait, you tried to believe but didn't. I actually did believe and laughed it off years later.

 

[JEDIYoda]

No, that's silly.

I used to be a Christian. I gave it more than an open hearing. It failed to keep me convinced.

actually umm no...you called your self a Christian! If you were truly a Christian you would not be here stating that there is no God.......that is a huge difference!!

 

[dphantom]

No, that's silly.

I used to be a Christian. I gave it more than an open hearing. It failed to keep me convinced.

and that is where you failed. You were asking for God to prove himself to you.

 

[moonbogg]

actually umm no...you called your self a Christian! If you were truly a Christian you would not be here stating that there is no God.......that is a huge difference!!

Confirmed by this post. You are a religious topic troll. No other explanation for the ignorant dismissal of his prior belief in Christ.

 

[PingviN]

you came to the party late...the same old Atheist talking points......
You say you cannot claim that something doesn`t exist...yet you want Christians to prove that God does exist...how convenient....

Are you having a hard time understanding the difference between proving a positive and proving a negative?

 

[sandorski]

Confirmed by this post. You are a religious topic troll. No other explanation for the ignorant dismissal of his prior belief in Christ.

Actually, the Bible says basically the same as he just did. It's a fallacious argument, but from the point of view of the Believer it is true.

 

[jackstar7]

and that is where you failed. You were asking for God to prove himself to you.

That's not constructive.

 

[sandorski]

and that is where you failed. You were asking for God to prove himself to you.

Do you have personal proof of "god"?

 

[dphantom]

Do you have personal proof of "god"?

yes. I do actually.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Are you having a hard time understanding the difference between proving a positive and proving a negative?

that another atheist talking point and I am afraid that you cannot prove there is no God.....whats so hard about admitting that??

 

[JEDIYoda]

Confirmed by this post. You are a religious topic troll. No other explanation for the ignorant dismissal of his prior belief in Christ.

I really appreciate your intellectual insight into this matter!! God Bless!!

 

[sandorski]

yes. I do actually.

Then why does my alleged expectation for the same become my mistake?

 

[dphantom]

Then why does my alleged expectation for the same become my mistake?

when you can answer that honestly, you will know beyond all doubt.

 

[jackstar7]

that another atheist talking point and I am afraid that you cannot prove there is no God.....whats so hard about admitting that??

No one I'm aware of has a hard time admitting they cannot disprove the existence of a god. In fact, I find it a sign of great integrity when someone can freely admit their ignorance of a matter and has reconciled that it is beyond their ability.

The funny thing is that it is beyond every person's ability. But the hubris borne of fear is a powerful motivator towards pretending to know something that is impossible to know.

 

[jackstar7]

when you can answer that honestly, you will know beyond all doubt.

I thought it was important to maintain a level of doubt. I thought god didn't want a mind that would not question and be curious. What would god need with a puppet?

 

[dphantom]

I thought it was important to maintain a level of doubt. I thought god didn't want a mind that would not question and be curious. What would god need with a puppet?

I don't think you are asking an honest question but instead for other purposes. However, I will play along.

God's creation man is curious. Far from being a puppet it is quite apparent Man is anything but. All God expects is our love. Something that should be so easy but in truth is so difficult for us.

 

[sandorski]

when you can answer that honestly, you will know beyond all doubt.

Thanks for the non-answer.

 

[PingviN]

that another atheist talking point and I am afraid that you cannot prove there is no God.....whats so hard about admitting that??

I have no problems admitting I cannot factually prove the negative that a deity doesn't exist. I've been saying you cannot prove, with certainty, that a deity does not exist. I'm going to break the argument down for you, if you're still unable to see the issue then you're a lost cause.

A theist claims God exist.
An atheist asks for proof of existence.
The theist has no proof.
The theist asks the atheist to prove God doesn't exist.
The atheist cannot factually prove God doesn't exist, because it's impossible to prove this negative.
The theist sees this as proof of God's existence.

Enter: Russel's Teapot. The burden of proof is on you. You need to prove that God exist. I demand you prove a positive, you demand I prove a negative. The two are not equal. If I claim there is an Easter bunny wearing latex hiding at the center of Mt Everest, I need to prove that claim. Your inability to disprove it does not give my claim merit.

Seriously, stop rehashing the phrase "atheist talking points" like it means the argument is invalid just because it's presented by an atheist. Either present counter arguments or leave the thread. ATOT is over there --->

 

[alzan]

I thought it was important to maintain a level of doubt. I thought god didn't want a mind that would not question and be curious. What would god need with a puppet?

I may be reading you wrong but:

A cynic as the ultimate theist? They convince others by refusing to take sides?

I've heard it said, usually by theists, that the position of an agnostic (defined as someone who thinks the existence or nonexistence of G-d cannot be proven) is a position of cowardice. I had always thought that strange, as on a personal level doubt can be an affirming and even deepening exercise in faith.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why do we even have these threads?

 

[dphantom]

Why do we even have these threads?

to keep going around in a circle?

 

[SlowSpyder]

and that is where you failed. You were asking for God to prove himself to you.

We've all had loved ones die, they aren't resurrected. People die every day by the thousands, and none are resurrected. I don't think it is out of line to want a bit more evidence than an ancient book that is full of errors and contradictions to believe that jesus died and was resurrected and is the son of god. That isn't an unreasonable request, to want a bit more evidence, but christains can't seem to provide anything.

I think it would even be a good start if christians could show how their religion is somehow any different than the many other religions that must be false if christianity is right. I can't even get that much. It appears to be much more a product of where you are born than any sort of divine truth.

Without being able to at least start to answer one or both of those, it is just another fairy tale. In the above all you're really saying is, "My invisible friend is better than other types of invisible friends" and sadly that is all the 'evidence' christians seem to be able to provide.