Elevating the atheism/religion discussion

[Cerpin Taxt]

Atheists "don't about life as such". No one proselytizes about their non-belief in Unicorns, but they sure proselytize their lack of belief in God.

Nonsense. Atheists aren't in the business of talking people out of god-belief, but some certainly have made a hobby out explaining why the reasons people believe in gods are bad reasons.

I don't really care if you believe in gods, per se. Just don't tell me you believe because you think you see "evidence" of design, or you're gonna be made to look pretty silly.

 

[PowerEngineer]

So you don't live your life as if God doesn't exists, then, because if you did, you wouldn't proselytize as people who don't believe in unicorns don't proselytize because they live their lives as if unicorns don't exists.

You're not making sense...either non stamp-collecting is a hobby, or it isn't?

If atheists wouldn't make stupid-ass analogies to prove they're not proselytizers, then we wouldn't have anyhing to say about it...but atheism is treated much like a religion of "lack-of" belief.

Those links I posted prove that they work together to de-convert the masses.

Only by believers. :\ You have me wondering again if you're making these arguments just to chalk up spiritual debating points.

I'd like to think that even you might count yourself among those who don't believe in unicorns, and that perhaps the reason none of us have had to express our skepticism about their existence is that we haven't been confronted by anyone who seriously believes that they do exist. I have little doubt that a "unicorns are real" thread would elicit responses, maybe even from you, that questioned why anyone would think it was true. At that point I doubt you'd think that you were proselytizing against unicorn belief.

Now I'm okay with anyone who wants to believe in unicorns as long as that belief doesn't result in consequences that affect me or the society I live in.

I would become concerned, however, if unicorn believers decided it was necessary to lower all highway speed limits to 30 mph in order to avoid hitting unicorns, or that a commandment etched onto unicorn horns required a ban on all shoe laces, or that evolution shouldn't be taught in our science classes because a unicorn was the "intelligent designer" of us all just last week.

If believers seek to see their beliefs incorporated into our shared society (which is understandable), then they shouldn't be surprised or offended when those who don't share their beliefs push back (hard).

 

[JEDIYoda]

I am fully aware of what "Miracles" are according to the Bible. You might wanna consult Rob and let him know about them though.

haha this dude has not answered one single question asked of him other than to spout Atheist talking points......

 

[JEDIYoda]

Now I'm okay with anyone who wants to believe in unicorns as long as that belief doesn't result in consequences that affect me or the society I live in.

I would become concerned, however, if unicorn believers decided it was necessary to lower all highway speed limits to 30 mph in order to avoid hitting unicorns, or that a commandment etched onto unicorn horns required a ban on all shoe laces, or that evolution shouldn't be taught in our science classes because a unicorn was the "intelligent designer" of us all just last week.

If believers seek to see their beliefs incorporated into our shared society (which is understandable), then they shouldn't be surprised or offended when those who don't share their beliefs push back (hard).

more nonsense...lol

 

[SlowSpyder]

Rob, to summarize a little, can we agree that these are facts?

-No one can disprove the existence of a god / christian god.
-The christian god murdered ('killed' if that makes you feel warm and fuzzy vs. that nasty murder word) children and adults by the millions according to the bible.
-The christian god called for genocide according to the holy bible.
-Other than the bible being counted as evidence, there is zero evidence of the christian miracles having happened.
-Christianity can't differentiate itself from any of the many other religions as far as why anyone would choose to believe in it.
-Where you are born appears to have a strong influence on what religious beliefs you choose.


Rob, is it so much that anyone is trying to change your beliefs, or is it that maybe through this discussion on some level you see that christianity has very little going for it as far and any reason to believe in it?

 

[dphantom]

Unicornists are not trying to impose their Beliefs onto us.

Neither are Christians or any other religion. Well Islam maybe in some countries.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Neither are Christians or any other religion. Well Islam maybe in some countries.

I've had christian family go on mission trips to "save" people. My sister has donated plenty to her church to help fund these missions trips as well.

 

[dphantom]

I've had christian family go on mission trips to "save" people. My sister has donated plenty to her church to help fund these missions trips as well.

"Impose" is a forcible act. Going on a mission trip is not "forcing" anyone to become Christian or any other religion.

If people come and hear and by hearing accept Christianity, great. If not, they will simply leave.

 

[moonbogg]

There are very few atheists who have the balls to say there is no God...Penn Jillet is one of them (whom I respect for that), and its ironic that he's into "magic".

I guess magical thinking isn't the sole realm of religion.

It has nothing to do with having balls or not. Given the nature of the argument and humanity's lack of knowledge, to claim boldly that there is no "god" of any kind is an indefensible position and is, IMO, unjustified. Agnosticism results in a lack of belief. You can't believe what you don't know, therefore atheist.

 

[sandorski]

Neither are Christians or any other religion. Well Islam maybe in some countries.

False. If you don't see what is going on in US Politics, you're part of the problem. Perhaps Your form of Christianity is a-political, but there are forms that are very Political and have a lot of Political Power and are using it.

 

[dphantom]

False. If you don't see what is going on in US Politics, you're part of the problem. Perhaps Your form of Christianity is a-political, but there are forms that are very Political and have a lot of Political Power and are using it.

You are very much confusing and equating one's moral and ethical positions with one's religion. Sorry, I will never give up my right to speech or to voice my opinion just because I happen to be Christian, or Jewish, Or Buddhist or whatever.

You as an atheist have no special privilege when it comes to public policy. I will speak my piece just like you.

 

[sandorski]

You are very much confusing and equating one's moral and ethical positions with one's religion. Sorry, I will never give up my right to speech or to voice my opinion just because I happen to be Christian, or Jewish, Or Buddhist or whatever.

You as an atheist have no special privilege when it comes to public policy. I will speak my piece just like you.

No. Your Morals can not be Legislated into Law. Ever. Personal Morals are just that, Personal.

 

[dphantom]

No. Your Morals can not be Legislated into Law. Ever. Personal Morals are just that, Personal.

Then neither can yours

But we both know laws are a result, at least partially, of societal morals and ethics. So get over it. I will have as much right to advocate for laws I think are right just as you have the right to advocate for laws you think are right.

 

[Retro Rob]

Then neither can yours

But we both know laws are a result, at least partially, of societal morals and ethics. So get over it. I will have as much right to advocate for laws I think are right just as you have the right to advocate for laws you think are right.

This needed to be said, and very well put. Also, I don't see why Sandorski's opinion matters anyway -- he's not a US citizen. Make sure your own house stays clean.

 

[sandorski]

Then neither can yours

But we both know laws are a result, at least partially, of societal morals and ethics. So get over it. I will have as much right to advocate for laws I think are right just as you have the right to advocate for laws you think are right.

Indeed.

You have a right to make suggestions, as do I. However, you do not have the right to impose Religious restrictions on those who do not practice your Religion.

 

[dphantom]

Indeed.

You have a right to make suggestions, as do I. However, you do not have the right to impose Religious restrictions on those who do not practice your Religion.

In the US, no one can impose religious restrictions on another person. It is part of our Bill of Rights specifically the First Amendment.

 

[sandorski]

In the US, no one can impose religious restrictions on another person. It is part of our Bill of Rights specifically the First Amendment.

Yes. Doesn't stop some from trying though.

 

[dphantom]

Yes. Doesn't stop some from trying though.

and they don't succeed so I am missing whatever your problem is with religion in regards to public policy - in the US

 

[JEDIYoda]

Indeed.

You have a right to make suggestions, as do I. However, you do not have the right to impose Religious restrictions on those who do not practice your Religion.

It`s just another sandorski talking point when he can`t come up with anything scientific to say!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

If atheists wouldn't make stupid-ass analogies to prove they're not proselytizers, then we wouldn't have anyhing to say about it...but atheism is treated much like a religion of "lack-of" belief.

exactly!!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

I've had christian family go on mission trips to "save" people. My sister has donated plenty to her church to help fund these missions trips as well.
__________________

How does that affect you??

 

[JEDIYoda]

False. If you don't see what is going on in US Politics, you're part of the problem. Perhaps Your form of Christianity is a-political, but there are forms that are very Political and have a lot of Political Power and are using it.

So......
You have a voice......use it in the Political arena....

 

[JEDIYoda]

However, you do not have the right to impose Religious restrictions on those who do not practice your Religion.

How exactly does that specifically affect you?

 

[dphantom]

How exactly does that specifically affect you?

none of it does. he maybe upset since he got his as* handed to him and has nothing to come back with

 

[alzan]

I don't think I missed the point. You claimed, by link(s), that the Gospel's are not authentic, and when called on your bullshit, you claim the Bible isn't a historical book from the start, just a book of moral lessons with a bit of history mixed into it.

You cannot defend your position...plain and simple.



If you're so much about the "spirit", why are you trying to provide arguments to support the absence of evidence for the Exodus, thus, proving it didn't happen?

You don't care about the "spirit"...you care about disproving the historicity as much as I care about proving it.





I've been called worse, trust me.

Actually my statement in the relevant post was "The OT aside, although it may suffer from the same problem; the various Gospels of the NT were written anywhere from 30 to 90 years after Jesus' death so recording history as it happens, not so much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel See especially the first paragraph and the Development and Composition section.

That statement, as supported by that link is true. You simply won't accept it because you believe that the Bible is truthful and historically accurate and factual. Once again, your arms folded across your chest as you silently intone "I'm right and I won't accept anyone else's views on the subject."

I was showing just one example of an event recorded in the Bible that isn't recorded in any other record from the time.

No Rob, I wrote that as an adjunct to my post about your concern with the letter and not the spirit of the word.

I'm sure you have been called worse; those who resort to name-calling or rudeness aren't interested in serious discussion anyway. They let their emotions and inner child take over their rational mind.