Judaism is in the interesting place of being as much an ethnicity and a culture as an organized religion. Jews were oppressed not just because of their religious beliefs, but also because they were ethnically and culturally different than those around them. This may sound like a minor difference, but you were also being pedantic, so I get to return the favor.
There's a difference between calling someone wrong and calling someone stupid. The former is an argument on topic, the other is an ad hominem characterization. The intelligence level of the people making the claim has little baring on whether the claim itself is correct.
If you really wanted to make that claim (because, I don't know, you're a real jerk), you'd have to look at data outside the argument itself. Even those studies, though, are mostly influenced by demographic differences. When you control for income and education level, they don't show a strong relationship between religiosity and intelligence.
There are always the extremes. Frankly, if every atheist were like Bill Mahr, then religious people should view all atheists as a threat. Just the same way that if every religious person were like Rick Santorum, atheists should view all of them as a threat.
You've always struck me as a resolute non-believer in the existence of God, however, your attitude would make me hear you out.Thankfully, that's not the case, but it can seem that way when our only exposure to these people are the loud, extreme voices. That's why it is important for us to introduce ourselves to others as atheists and explain our beliefs. No to try to convert them to atheism, but simply to show that we're reasonable people.
I agree with this. However, I don't buy the "we would have learned to not murder without the Ten Commandments" because the truth is, other religions were murdering, hence, why the commandment was inserted into Israel's laws.More important than the fact that the mistake was made is why it was a mistake in the first place. A significant portion of America, when faced with the history of religious incorporation into secular government, would simply reply, "that's only natural, because religion is the moral foundation of society, and without it laws make no sense." Understanding that a moral society can exist without religious involvement was something obvious to our nation's founders, but is still contested by much of its populace.
Claiming the world is 6000 years old is ignorant. Rejecting the theory of evolution in favor of creationism is ignorant. I suppose you can be somewhat intelligent (though I doubt much more than low-average) and still believe man was made out of clay.
Yes, you're whining <snip>
Rob, I don't speak out against christianity in discussion forums because I am a bigot. I speak out because the doctrine is evil and there is zero evidence to believe in it.
This is a lie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biblical_figures_identified_in_extra-biblical_sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible
If you mean "no evidence" of miracles, well, no stuff Sherlock...as no one ever said evidence of miracles exists as they are supernatural in nature.
Over the past 100 years or so, evidence for Biblical accounts have been found. I expect more to be found in the future.
LOL -- I agree with you on Santourm.
You've always struck me as a resolute non-believer in the existence of God, however, your attitude would make me hear you out.
Wish there were more like you around.
But Judeo-Christian society isn't the only one that didn't participate in human sacrifice. China outlawed it in 384 BCE, and most definitely did not invoke the Ten Commandments to do so. Whether you feel it was a religious decision has a lot to do with whether you classify Confucianism as a religion (it has no belief in the supernatural, but does talk about an abstract "natural order of things" or hierarchy).I agree with this. However, I don't buy the "we would have learned to not murder without the Ten Commandments" because the truth is, other religions were murdering, hence, why the commandment was inserted into Israel's laws.
If you look into the history of early Mesopotamia, and other religions like the Canaanites, child sacrifice was the order of the day for Baal -- and passing kids through the fire was ritual worship. The "must not murder" command eliminated that practice from Israel.
Who knows if we would have learned to not murder? Its easy to look back and have this revisionist historical view and say what we didn't need to be told since we no longer need to be told.
That's like saying "we don't need biologists to understand biology since we now understand biology".
It's a hypocritical remark.
I've have a science fiction series that was written in the 80's which lists now living and known to have lived people along with recorded historical facts.
Not exactly, as (deceased) Egyptologist J.A Wilson states, in his book "World History of the Jewish people" that Egyptians weren't above erasing defeats from history as defeats were never mentioned. Politicians today try to hide embarrassing information, though these days, you can't.Also, historians view the ancient Egyptians as the most meticulous record keepers of any of the ancient peoples, and yet in all of their records from the times and events surrounding the Bible there's absolutely no record of Moses parting the Red Sea, no Pillar of Fire that held back Pharoah's army, etc.
You might want to ask yourself why that is.
This is a lie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biblical_figures_identified_in_extra-biblical_sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible
If you mean "no evidence" of miracles, well, no stuff Sherlock...as no one ever said evidence of miracles exists as they are supernatural in nature.
Over the past 100 years or so, evidence for Biblical accounts have been found. I expect more to be found in the future.
I'm sure some of the history written in the bible is relatively accurate, as it probably is in other ancient religious texts. I see nothing in your links that would have me believe that jesus is the son of god, saints / sinners, heaven, etc.
I never said those links contain that information anyway, and plus, you said there is "no evidence" which I wanted to refute as an oft-repeated lie...and we're not talking about other religious texts right now.
No, that alone doesn't make it the word of God no more than Muhammed being real makes the Koran the word of God -- I just wanted to show you there is evidence, and plenty of it, and to stop these "no evidence" lies atheists make a habit of ignorantly repeating as Gospel.
I never said those links contain that information anyway, and plus, you said there is "no evidence" which I wanted to refute as an oft-repeated lie...and we're not talking about other religious texts right now.
No, that alone doesn't make it the word of God no more than Muhammed being real makes the Koran the word of God -- I just wanted to show you there is evidence, and plenty of it, and to stop these "no evidence" lies atheists make a habit of ignorantly repeating as Gospel.
The funny thing about evidence in support of scripture is that its always been here -- we just haven't found it all.
"No evidence" is almost always used in relation to the very things you have just admitted there is no evidence of.
I said there is no evidence to believe in christine doctrine. I don't see anything in your links that changes that.
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. The information in those links drew the scorn of Bible critics before evidence was found, and when evidence was found, they put a sock in it and found something else to ridicule.
"Guilty until proven innocent"....that's exactly how the "enlightened" view the Bible. The more evidence is found, the smaller that pocket of ignorance gets.
Well, you didn't check the links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biblical_figures_identified_in_extra-biblical_sources#Gospels
...and I believe more evidence is going to come, the search is incomplete.
This is why Superman comics get brought up. These evidences are superficial at best. Anyone can simply right people known to exist into a story.
However, there are parts of the Gospel that did not happen. Such as the Census in the Birth story. The killing of Babies also did not occur. Those are just 2 examples.
This is why Superman comics get brought up. These evidences are superficial at best. Anyone can simply right people known to exist into a story.
However, there are parts of the Gospel that did not happen. Such as the Census in the Birth story. The killing of Babies also did not occur. Those are just 2 examples.
When there is Evidence, skeptics accept things.
Before there is Evidence, skeptics do not accept assertions.
This is why Superman comics get brought up.
"No evidence" is almost always used in relation to the very things you have just admitted there is no evidence of.
Fwiw, comparing superman is funny, though. I really relish the FSM, Unicorn, Thor's Hammer, flying teapot comparisons to be honest, because they (1) have no bearing on my faith or the veracity of the Bible, and (2), makes me laugh.
I don't think its sad...I've come to the conclusion that such arguments are desperate.
I've come to realize that when you cannot disprove something written as historical fact, all bets are off and you can abandon your intellect and rationality, and literally pull anything from your ass to get a good laugh.
Superman > God...all day long, my friend. I'll be sitting here smiling. :thumbsup:
Fwiw, comparing superman is funny, though. I really relish the FSM, Unicorn, Thor's Hammer, flying teapot comparisons to be honest, because they (1) have no bearing on my faith or the veracity of the Bible, and (2), makes me laugh.
I don't think its sad...I've come to the conclusion that such arguments are desperate.
I've come to realize that when you cannot disprove something written as historical fact, all bets are off and you can abandon your intellect and rationality, and literally pull anything from your ass to get a good laugh.
Superman > God...all day long, my friend. I'll be sitting here smiling. :thumbsup:
On top of that, I have always found the FSM to be a really irrational argument, or at least very misleading. There is no reason to believe in a FSM b/c there is nothing in the nature of this universe that reflects a FSM. However, there is a myriad of things in this universe that reflect the God of the Bible, both observable and experiential.
That said, you all have too much time on your hands.
Hey, critics said Sargon wasn't real. We found evidence, now critics are picking on the Gospels.
History should tell you to shut up, because we've seen how something is declared "myth", then evidence bites you in the ass...HARD!
Just....stop, please.
Good. I'm glad you see history in that. Secondly, there is a difference between recording actual history as it happens and basing a work on historical people.
For instance, writing about your life as it happens is completely different than basing a sci-fi movie on your life.
I don't see how you don't understand the difference.
Not exactly, as (deceased) Egyptologist J.A Wilson states, in his book "World History of the Jewish people" that Egyptians weren't above erasing defeats from history as defeats were never mentioned. Politicians today try to hide embarrassing information, though these days, you can't.
If you read the account in the Bible, they were embarrassed due to the word getting around to other nations like Assyria that they couldn't keep their slaves.
At any rate, evidence will keep turning up to support the Bible. Not everything, but many more things.