Eli Manning

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
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Good article in today's NY Post about Eli.

Text

LAST week's buildup decreed this was the game to determine Eli Manning's football worth. Beat the Cowboys and Tony Romo or else get dumped into the garbage with the rest of the bum quarterbacks.

The Giants lost, Romo outplayed Manning and that was that, until this week, when the next Game of the Season arrives in Detroit and Manning in the minds of many must rebound from that shame.

Degrees in psychoanalysis must come cheap, as the line of those eager to get into Manning's head and heart and declare those cavities devoid of the right stuff starts up in the press box and stretches clear around Giants Stadium. If Manning throws three touchdown passes and torches the Lions in Ford Field, the ?Cool Hand Eli" headlines make a reappearance, and if he tosses three interceptions, the rabble will want to start scouring the NFL Draft for another arm out of the bullpen.

Here's the deal with Manning: He's a good quarterback. Those who declare the Giants can't or won't win a Super Bowl with him at the helm are clueless or else they've never heard of Doug Williams or Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson or even Kurt Warner. Those who continually compare him to older brother Peyton are misguided, as Peyton is among the top 10 quarterbacks ever to play in the NFL and Eli is never going to approach that exalted status. Of course, before last season Peyton was classified as the greatest quarterback to never win the big one, until he won the big one.

Those who put together graphics and charts comparing Eli to 2004 classmates Ben Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers have to give it a rest. At this time a year ago, the noise grew deafening that Rivers was superior to Manning. How's that assessment looking now? Roethlisberger in his second year won a Super Bowl with the Steelers, leaning heavily on a punishing running game and surviving the worst statistical performance (nine completions, 123 passing yards, two interceptions) for any Super Bowl champion quarterback.

Roethlisberger was dreadful last season, has been phenomenal this season and, looking back, would have been a great choice for the Giants with the No. 4 pick in the 2004 draft rather than trading away three valuable picks for Manning. That's on former general manager Ernie Accorsi's legacy and has nothing to do with Eli Manning.

Manning gets no pass for his inconsistency. He gets no pass for not getting in and out of the damn huddle to prevent three ridiculous delay-of-game-penalties against the Cowboys. Eli scoffed at the Chargers, refused to play for them and forced his way into New York; this is what he wanted and he's no sympathetic figure. He also has never complained about the football firestorm he's living. Anyone who says the 31-20 loss to the Cowboys was all about his failures is lost or apparently not watching when he made some outrageous throws.

He's firmly in the second tier of quarterbacks. Many more than half the teams in the league would eagerly grab him up and instantly install him as their starter. Fans are harsh with him, but that's part of the biz. Fans are exceptionally frustrated with him because he ?aw-shucks" his way from week to week, reacts not with sweat and testosterone but with calm and perspective.

When he says of the Cowboys, ?They're a good team, in both games we played 'em we were in it at the end, it's not like we are getting blown out," fans want to cringe. They want fire, passion, outward disgust with losing. Manning keeps it all inside. Despite accusations, he doesn't have a deer-in-the-headlights look. His bland look is just his look and it doesn't mean he's intimidated. He might spend a dozen years with the Giants and not reveal much more of himself than he already has. Or there might not be much more to reveal.

He's not an enigma. He hasn't been a quick study, despite his bloodlines, and he's also not a finished product. He's improving in steps, not bounds. He can make all the throws, few of the scrambles. After 48 starts, he's got the same record (26-22) as Peyton did in his first 48, 10 more touchdown passes (and one more interception) than Phil Simms.

If you want inspiration, go see a movie. Eli gives you his effort and his performance. He's good enough, and it's up to the Giants to make that enough.

I think I completely agree with this article. Eli is not a bad QB. Did the Giants give up too much for him? Certainly. But he can be a winning QB in this league.
 

Jack Ryan

Golden Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,353
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I agree with the article too. Defense (secondary) is always a problem. As are stupid penalties. I'm content with Eli also.

And McNabb? Please, he is a loser and always has been. Now we see that he sucks even more than he did with a better defense and offensive weapons.
 

paulxcook

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
4,277
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Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady....

This year, yes. Though I'd put Romo above Palmer.

edit: Vince Young is a terrible quarterback.
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady....

This year, yes. Though I'd put Romo above Palmer.

edit: Vince Young is a terrible quarterback.

Agreed. I'd also have to throw Big Ben in ahead of Eli and Mcnabb.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
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Assessing a QB is difficult. We all see guys like Brady and Manning who, year in and out, deliver winning seasons to their teams. We see them make incredible plays, great throws, and put up very, very good numbers all seasons. What we, as fans, fail to remember is that these guys are the exception. Manning and Brady (in my opinion) not good quarterbacks - they are great ones. They are the guys that 25 years from now we're all going to look back and talk about how we watched them play the game. They're headed to the HoF. And that's great for them.

What that means, however, is that guys like Eli, McNabb, Rivers are good quarterbacks. They're the Tim Wakefield of quarterbacks - guys who will deliver lots of good starts, a number of bad starts, but generally keep your team in contention.

The next Brady and Manning don't come around very often. We shouldn't expect every QB in the league to throw 30 TDs with 10 INTs and have 4,000 yards passing.
 

hdeck

Lifer
Sep 26, 2002
14,530
1
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Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady < Vince Young

*edit* fixed

lol no

vince young = poor man's michael vick

michael vick couldn't break .500 with medicore receivers, vince is going to make the playoffs with some while being in the better conference.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady < Vince Young

*edit* fixed

lol no

vince young = poor man's michael vick

michael vick couldn't break .500 with medicore receivers, vince is going to make the playoffs with some while being in the better conference.

Michael Vick didn't have the benefit of having the best defense in the league (based on football outsider's DVOA)

http://www.footballoutsiders.c...ngs/dvoa-ratings/5752/


They're offense is the 25th best offense in the league as well.. the defense is basically carrying the team.
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
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Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady < Vince Young

*edit* fixed

lol no

vince young = poor man's michael vick

michael vick couldn't break .500 with medicore receivers, vince is going to make the playoffs with some while being in the better conference.

Vick never had half the defense that the Titans have this year.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
11
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Ohh a few things to comment on. Don't worry guys, the real expert has arrived (please note my sarcasm if you couldn't pick up on it already)

First and foremost, Eli is a decent QB. He is athletic, he has a good arm, he shows flashes of brilliance, and flashes of ineptitude. People say he is unjustly compared to Peyton - while they have a point to a degree, I think he brought it on himself. I will always hate Eli for his pre-draft antics, refusing to play for the Chargers, and I am thrilled that the Chargers got so many great players in return. I think he's a whiney brat, between the draft, the Manning-face-x10 (I swear he looks like he is gonna cry after every incompletion), and his bickering with Tiki Barber this year. The Giants shouldn't get rid of him, but at the same time, they should face the fact that he's not going to be a star.

Now the more fun stuff people have brought up....believe it or not, I think Palmer is a better QB than Romo. I love Romo, I'd put him at 4th in the league right now, but Palmer is an exception talent, surrounded by a lot of trash right now (besides his WRs of course, the rest of the Bengals are a joke).

Vince Young is a joke, I actually *gasp* agree with Phokus, I consider him to be a slower version of Vick. In case you've forgotten, hdeck, Vick went the NFC Championship game in 2004, and won a playoff game in 2002. If you look at the Falcons' record with/without him since he got there, its astounding...the team simply does not win without him. Vick was a very good football player on a pretty average team. Young is a decent football player on a pretty good team.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
81
Originally posted by: bignateyk
Originally posted by: paulxcook
Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady....

This year, yes. Though I'd put Romo above Palmer.

edit: Vince Young is a terrible quarterback.

Agreed. I'd also have to throw Big Ben in ahead of Eli and Mcnabb.

agree with all quoted statements
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
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81
Originally posted by: Deeko
I think he's a whiney brat, between the draft, the Manning-face-x10 (I swear he looks like he is gonna cry after every incompletion), and his bickering with Tiki Barber this year.

The Tiki thing is totally not his fault. Tiki attacked him on the air, out of the blue. Eli responded and shocked some people. Most people thought he'd roll over and take it, and he didn't. I don't fault Eli a bit for that incident.
 

hdeck

Lifer
Sep 26, 2002
14,530
1
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: hdeck
Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady < Vince Young

*edit* fixed

lol no

vince young = poor man's michael vick

michael vick couldn't break .500 with medicore receivers, vince is going to make the playoffs with some while being in the better conference.

Michael Vick didn't have the benefit of having the best defense in the league (based on football outsider's DVOA)

shhh....stop pointing out the obvious

i love getting people riled up about vince, though. he throws for under 200 yards and his team wins = he can't pass the ball, he sucks, his d carries him. he throws for over 200 yards and his team loses due to no run game & bad run defense = he sucks and can't win games. all this for a 2nd year QB the had less than 2.5 years of college starting experience.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
11
81
Yes, Tiki started it...but as McNabb showed us with the TO saga, sometimes its better to just ignore it rather than respond. Back-and-forth media battles aren't good for anybody.
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
Originally posted by: Deeko
Yes, Tiki started it...but as McNabb showed us with the TO saga, sometimes its better to just ignore it rather than respond. Back-and-forth media battles aren't good for anybody.

It wasn't that big a deal, really. It wasn't back and forth too much and lasted all of a week. The problem with media battles are that it's ditracting to the team. Well, Tiki is no longer on the team and with Eli's comments, the team actually rallied around him. People thought he is a pushover and he showed that he's not. I don't think the team or Eli suffered as a result. Tiki took a huge hit in NY because of it, not Eli. Tiki went from being one of the most beloved ex-Giants to a guy who gets booed whenever he appears on the screen at the stadium.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
11
81
It sounded to me like "waaah I am too a leader! Look at everything Tiki did wrong! I'm rubber you're glue, it bounces off me and sticks to you!". It just furthered the perception that Eli is a whiner.
 

Bushwicktrini

Senior member
Jan 8, 2002
756
2
81
Originally posted by: Deeko
Yes, Tiki started it...but as McNabb showed us with the TO saga, sometimes its better to just ignore it rather than respond. Back-and-forth media battles aren't good for anybody.

However he was the one who ended it. I like Eli's fire when it came to Tiki and I just wish that sometimes he would show it on the field I.E during 2 min drills.

BTW while i understand the impact Tiki had on the O for the G-men I can't stand him as a person and never did
 

Bushwicktrini

Senior member
Jan 8, 2002
756
2
81
Originally posted by: Deeko
It sounded to me like "waaah I am too a leader! Look at everything Tiki did wrong! I'm rubber you're glue, it bounces off me and sticks to you!". It just furthered the perception that Eli is a whiner.

What was he suppose to do?!? let Tiki run over him? This off season I felt that ELI had to step up and get some locker room cred with Plex and Shockey infact look at how hard Plex is playing for Eli...... unless it's a contract year for him?????
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: Turfzilla
Eli < McNabb < Romo < Palmer < Favre < Peyton < Brady....

Eh...



McNabb = Eli < Palmer < Favre < Romo = Peyton < Brady

Romo is good as a future HoF QB who has been awing us for eight seasons now? Come on. Romo might be that good, he might also be the next Kurt Warner. He hasn't yet played a full season of football and everyone seems to think he's some sort of god.

Get back to me in three years and then let's start talking about how good Romo is compared to the best in the league.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
11
81
You can stand up for yourself without taking pot-shots at the accuser. If Eli had simply defending his leadership capability, it would have been acceptable - but to turn around and start saying how bad a leader Tiki was too, how big of a distraction his retirement talk was, etc....shut up Eli, you're making it worse.
 
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