Elio motors. 3 wheeler car that promises 84 mpg and $6800

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Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
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From what I understand, what they've shown so far is a fiberglass-and-chewing-gum prototype with a 90's era Geo engine. I'm not surprised people don't think it's worth $6,800 based on the demo.

But they're taking money for a modern, engineered, warrantied vehicle with a crash-test rating and all the associated government approvals - and that's flatly impossible to deliver for $6,800, even for the largest manufacturers in the world with all their scale advantages.
 

CRUZR

Junior Member
Dec 4, 2015
1
0
0
From what I understand, what they've shown so far is a fiberglass-and-chewing-gum prototype with a 90's era Geo engine. I'm not surprised people don't think it's worth $6,800 based on the demo.

Seems you need to update what you think you know about the current state of developement

But they're taking money for a modern, engineered, warrantied vehicle with a crash-test rating and all the associated government approvals - and that's flatly impossible to deliver for $6,800, even for the largest manufacturers in the world with all their scale advantages.

It seems you need to update yourself with the status of the EMV before you you make statements that are outdated. Take a look at the Elio Motors Web site for thier current status. #528, Seattle
 

JohnPainter

Junior Member
Dec 4, 2015
1
0
0
That is not accurate. I'm a reservation holder for an Elio #12436 in Maine. The body panels of the Elio are SMC, the same material Corvette uses, and the same material used by the US Armed Services for shipping containers, it's a very strong material. The current, and last prototype "P5" is fully functional and actually has Elio's new engine designed by McLaren (yes that McLaren) and IAV who also built it. At least 47,000 other people like me indeed believe it's worth $6,800. Their are a number of contributing factors to how Elio Motors is able to produce a vehicle for the MSRP they are targeting; it has fewer parts than a car, they are utilizing no new technology though they are fully exploiting existing technology, they have designed the vehicle with their parts suppliers, and their business model is not based on inflating the cost by adding extras which are not wanted/needed. While I would agree economy of scale is essential for getting prices down, that is not a motivator for large manufacturers if they are publicly traded, their main objective is to charge as much as the market can bear to pay. Elio Motors is owned and controlled by Paul Elio, which has its own challenges in raising the vast amount of capital necessary for mass vehicle production, however because he is not beholden to a board of directors as a publically traded company is, he is fully able to direct returns e.g. the customer can et a rock bottom price as a trade off the investors return may not be so high, though if sales volume happens to be stellar there would probably be a very respectable return for investors.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
Gas at 2 or 4 or 10 dollars a gallon I'm not driving one of these. If your 'hobby' is seeing how far you can go while saving the environment then great. Everyone else, buy a used Civic. If you have a job so far away that the 80 MPG is a real bonus, but you can only afford one of these -- then get a new job, the commute is obviously not worth it.

This is a cool experiment, concept, whatever, but not required for the masses just yet. We still have some oil left in the world.
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
Gas at 2 or 4 or 10 dollars a gallon I'm not driving one of these. If your 'hobby' is seeing how far you can go while saving the environment then great. Everyone else, buy a used Civic. If you have a job so far away that the 80 MPG is a real bonus, but you can only afford one of these -- then get a new job, the commute is obviously not worth it.

This is a cool experiment, concept, whatever, but not required for the masses just yet. We still have some oil left in the world.

99% of the time my wife and I drive alone. Our current car is a 2 seater, and it's only on rare occasions that we have any cargo that wouldn't also fit in the Elio. It would be an excellent second vehicle for us.

In a 30mpg car we'd be burning around 1,000 gallons of gas every year. Even at current prices, there are better things I could be doing with that $2,000 difference in fuel costs every year than sitting in an unnecessarily large vehicle.
 

Bull Dog

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2005
1,985
1
81
That is not accurate. I'm a reservation holder for an Elio #12436 in Maine. The body panels of the Elio are SMC, the same material Corvette uses, and the same material used by the US Armed Services for shipping containers, it's a very strong material. The current, and last prototype "P5" is fully functional and actually has Elio's new engine designed by McLaren (yes that McLaren) and IAV who also built it. At least 47,000 other people like me indeed believe it's worth $6,800. Their are a number of contributing factors to how Elio Motors is able to produce a vehicle for the MSRP they are targeting; it has fewer parts than a car, they are utilizing no new technology though they are fully exploiting existing technology, they have designed the vehicle with their parts suppliers, and their business model is not based on inflating the cost by adding extras which are not wanted/needed. While I would agree economy of scale is essential for getting prices down, that is not a motivator for large manufacturers if they are publicly traded, their main objective is to charge as much as the market can bear to pay. Elio Motors is owned and controlled by Paul Elio, which has its own challenges in raising the vast amount of capital necessary for mass vehicle production, however because he is not beholden to a board of directors as a publically traded company is, he is fully able to direct returns e.g. the customer can et a rock bottom price as a trade off the investors return may not be so high, though if sales volume happens to be stellar there would probably be a very respectable return for investors.

As nice as all this fluff reads, I hate to break it to you...it's just that meaningless fluff.

The fact that the body panels are SMC is meaningless. Are these body panels in mass production? Where is the proof (press release from McLaren) that they designed an engine for this concept?

Bernie Madoff had so many people believeing in his that he was able to pull off a ponzi scheme to the tune of tens of BILLIONS of dollars for years and years.

47000 people believing in Elio motors will not make any less of a scam at the end of the if that is what it turns out to be in the end.

The technologies that this car does or does not utilize is meaningless as far as the bottom line is concerned.

Non luxury/sport vehicles these day are already highly commoditized. Every dollar that is spent on the production of the vehicle is accounted for. Profit margins are thin. Suggesting that somehow Paul Elio is somehow has some magic sauce to do something different is lunacy.

Will this concept/prototype ever make it into mass production or not? This is what matters, the rest of the hyperbole that was posted is a distraction.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
5,641
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Bull Dog, have you seen modern cars? Even econoboxes are loaded with tech and features, and many have tons of options like heated seats. They are highly scrutinized in costs but the industry really is not producing bare bones Saturn/Geo type of ultra basic commuter cars any more. At least not in the U.S. They might elsewhere but those will be different markets.

Gas at 2 or 4 or 10 dollars a gallon I'm not driving one of these. If your 'hobby' is seeing how far you can go while saving the environment then great. Everyone else, buy a used Civic. If you have a job so far away that the 80 MPG is a real bonus, but you can only afford one of these -- then get a new job, the commute is obviously not worth it.

This is a cool experiment, concept, whatever, but not required for the masses just yet. We still have some oil left in the world.

Who says it has to be either of those things? Anyone who needs 85MPG to be able to afford to commute obviously is SOL since it isn't possible to have this yet. Some people would just like to be able to cut down on fuel costs. I have a 30-40 mile commute 5 days a week and would love a vehicle like this. It'd only save me maybe $50 a month in gas (well actually more since more, my current vehicle gets horrible gas mileage, but even if I had a car that got 30-40mpg it'd save $50 a month), but that's still $600 by the end of the year. Its not a requirement for anyone. That's a silly way to look at this. Obviously this is not a mass audience vehicle yet (even if it was more widely readily available it wouldn't be that).

I get the pessimism as I was the same way with Tesla. I thought the Roadster was nothing special, but the Model S is actually impressive (it is more luxurious, has more utility, looks better, is built better, has more features, and performance is not terribly far off and in some respects is actually better; all of that for less money). I don't know if they'll be able to meet their goals, but getting even kinda close (60mpg for $10K for instance) would be impressive to me. That's not to say I'd run out and buy one as it'd depend on other factors, but I'd be very interested. I'm sure over time they'd add more features and improve things.

From the outset this will be a niche vehicle and obviously isn't for everyone (or even most people very probably), but it definitely could have wide appeal if it delivers its potential and doesn't have any major problems. And yes, obviously it needs to actually get made first.

Also, yes, a used Prius for 10-15K would be a lot better solution (and good enough MPG) for probably most people.

That is not accurate. I'm a reservation holder for an Elio #12436 in Maine. The body panels of the Elio are SMC, the same material Corvette uses, and the same material used by the US Armed Services for shipping containers, it's a very strong material. The current, and last prototype "P5" is fully functional and actually has Elio's new engine designed by McLaren (yes that McLaren) and IAV who also built it. At least 47,000 other people like me indeed believe it's worth $6,800. Their are a number of contributing factors to how Elio Motors is able to produce a vehicle for the MSRP they are targeting; it has fewer parts than a car, they are utilizing no new technology though they are fully exploiting existing technology, they have designed the vehicle with their parts suppliers, and their business model is not based on inflating the cost by adding extras which are not wanted/needed. While I would agree economy of scale is essential for getting prices down, that is not a motivator for large manufacturers if they are publicly traded, their main objective is to charge as much as the market can bear to pay. Elio Motors is owned and controlled by Paul Elio, which has its own challenges in raising the vast amount of capital necessary for mass vehicle production, however because he is not beholden to a board of directors as a publically traded company is, he is fully able to direct returns e.g. the customer can et a rock bottom price as a trade off the investors return may not be so high, though if sales volume happens to be stellar there would probably be a very respectable return for investors.

No actually it is not that McLaren (as in the one that makes the P1). It is an American company that was created by Bruce McLaren (yes that Bruce McLaren), but is not tied to the McLaren most people are aware of these days. I don't know if they're even involved any more though. They allegedly were going to supply the engine but that was 5 years ago or so and I haven't seen anything about their involvement since. IAV is developing the engine.

And they do have some impressive suppliers and people working on this project that have real experience in the industry. But you need to get your facts straight as well.

Also, um no economies of scale might be the biggest motivator for large car companies. It is why they do stuff like platform sharing (and rebadging). Because it is such a driving force they even co-operate with competitors to co-develop platforms and vehicles in order to achieve better economies of scale. Likewise, the dependence on economies of scale to function is why they needed bailouts (and why Ford and Toyota gave testimony supporting GM and Chrysler getting bailed out, because the industry is so dependent on it that if they had gone under and taken out suppliers it would have also likely taken Ford and Toyota down as well, to say nothing of all the other small companies like Mazda and Subaru that basically couldn't exist without the economies of scale provided by the industry).
 
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Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
This can be taken on the highway.
This has AC
This can comfortably hold two people...on the highway.
It has 3 wheels, so you dont have to worry about falling over.

Might as well just buy a used Toyota for half the price. Bonus points for being able to carry a load of groceries on occasion.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
That is not accurate. I'm a reservation holder for an Elio #12436 in Maine. The body panels of the Elio are SMC, the same material Corvette uses, and the same material used by the US Armed Services for shipping containers, it's a very strong material. The current, and last prototype "P5" is fully functional and actually has Elio's new engine designed by McLaren (yes that McLaren) and IAV who also built it. At least 47,000 other people like me indeed believe it's worth $6,800. Their are a number of contributing factors to how Elio Motors is able to produce a vehicle for the MSRP they are targeting; it has fewer parts than a car, they are utilizing no new technology though they are fully exploiting existing technology, they have designed the vehicle with their parts suppliers, and their business model is not based on inflating the cost by adding extras which are not wanted/needed. While I would agree economy of scale is essential for getting prices down, that is not a motivator for large manufacturers if they are publicly traded, their main objective is to charge as much as the market can bear to pay. Elio Motors is owned and controlled by Paul Elio, which has its own challenges in raising the vast amount of capital necessary for mass vehicle production, however because he is not beholden to a board of directors as a publically traded company is, he is fully able to direct returns e.g. the customer can et a rock bottom price as a trade off the investors return may not be so high, though if sales volume happens to be stellar there would probably be a very respectable return for investors.

troll account.

But just to play along:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/06/elios-25m-public-share-offering-will-lead-to-25-new-test-vehic/
 

Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
944
58
91
It seems you need to update yourself with the status of the EMV before you you make statements that are outdated. Take a look at the Elio Motors Web site for thier current status. #528,
Always a good sign when the company's viral marketing team shows up - especially when it's totally ham-fisted and obvious!
 
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MegaFlop

Member
Mar 1, 2013
103
10
76

That is pretty sobering article...
I would love to see Elio succeed, however I don't feel that it is very likely.

Take a look at vehicles you can buy for $6800...
A few motorcycles...

The least expensive automobile is a Versa for $11,900. So either Elio is building something much more complicated / larger then a motorcycle for the same price or they are building something similar to a car for half the price...

The two mass produced street legal trikes (Can-Am Spyder and Polaris Slingshot) are much more expensive.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
That is pretty sobering article...
I would love to see Elio succeed, however I don't feel that it is very likely.

Take a look at vehicles you can buy for $6800...
A few motorcycles...

The least expensive automobile is a Versa for $11,900. So either Elio is building something much more complicated / larger then a motorcycle for the same price or they are building something similar to a car for half the price...

The two mass produced street legal trikes (Can-Am Spyder and Polaris Slingshot) are much more expensive.

Can-Am Spyder and the Slingshot are vastly different in target audience. That is something that people forget. The Spyder and slingshot is aimed squarely at an older demographic that has disposable income and in most cases wants a toy. In my case, I own a Spyder as I wanted a touring machine. Those two things are something that nobody is going to buy an Elio for.

I never thought the Elio price was realistic but it isn't too far off base either. I suspect he could sell it for $10k just as easily as at $6800.
 

MegaFlop

Member
Mar 1, 2013
103
10
76
Can-Am Spyder and the Slingshot are vastly different in target audience. That is something that people forget. The Spyder and slingshot is aimed squarely at an older demographic that has disposable income and in most cases wants a toy. In my case, I own a Spyder as I wanted a touring machine. Those two things are something that nobody is going to buy an Elio for.

I never thought the Elio price was realistic but it isn't too far off base either. I suspect he could sell it for $10k just as easily as at $6800.

I completely understand the difference with the Spyder and Slingshot. I had a Spyder for five years. They are definitely niche vehicles, but they are coming from a established manufacturer.

I am sure that "someone" could build a Elio for $10k, but that is nearly 50% more then the target price and would be a huge miss for what they want to accomplish and what they have promised.
 

Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
944
58
91
There isn't even a final design yet ...

The way this game is played is to keep the hype machine spinning while spending as little as possible of the investment capital on new prototypes and siphoning the rest off in various administrative expenses and billing scams. I would suggest any potential investors look very carefully at their cash flow disclosures, and vet their vendor list for any related parties. I've seen pump and dump scams exactly like this too many times before.

I don't have a dog in the hunt - and if a vehicle with these specs ever does come to market at a price this low I'd definitely be a buyer. My bullshit detector has just been ringing loud and clear on this one ever since they first announced it, and I'd hate to see anyone on AT get taken.
 

right_to_know

Member
Nov 19, 2015
78
14
71
That is pretty sobering article...
I would love to see Elio succeed, however I don't feel that it is very likely.

Take a look at vehicles you can buy for $6800...
A few motorcycles...

The least expensive automobile is a Versa for $11,900. So either Elio is building something much more complicated / larger then a motorcycle for the same price or they are building something similar to a car for half the price...

The two mass produced street legal trikes (Can-Am Spyder and Polaris Slingshot) are much more expensive.

Motorbikes are generally overpriced as playthings than serious low cost transport. The can am spyder is definitely a rich kids toy.
For cheap cars there are indian ones sold for a few hundred thousand rupees and the Suzuki Alto was being sold in the UK at about 6 grand for a while.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...-cheapest-new-cars-on-sale.html?frame=2308811
 

twinrider1

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2003
4,096
64
91
"Coming fourth quarter 2016!"

Yet they currently lack the following:

-Funding
-Factory
-Final, production-ready prototype
-Tooling to use in their machinery

I don't think they've been closed out completely from the funding and the factory. So let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say both are approved and delivered on January 1, 2016. Does anyone think they can develop a final prototype, set up a factory, obtain tooling, build, and deliver a single production vehicle in one year?

Even the most optimistic must acknowledge that this is simply not going to happen.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
Motorbikes are generally overpriced as playthings than serious low cost transport. The can am spyder is definitely a rich kids toy.
For cheap cars there are indian ones sold for a few hundred thousand rupees and the Suzuki Alto was being sold in the UK at about 6 grand for a while.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...-cheapest-new-cars-on-sale.html?frame=2308811

Those prices are all in GBP.

You do realize that 1 GBP = 1.52 USD, right? So that "6 grand" Suzuki (5,999 GBP before VAT) would be a little over 9,100 USD. And that price is only possible given the massive economies of scale afforded by a company large enough that it sells vehicles in over 190 different countries.

ZV
 
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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
Be prepared to lose 20+mpg on the highway with a roof mounted box. This vehicle relies on minimal drag and frontal area to get its fuel economy figures. I built a trailer that hide's in my car's wake, rather than use a roof box, after finding this out the hard way:


How does someone get so absorbed into the almighty hip and trendy "MPG" to the point where ridicule and humiliation stop being a concern?
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
How does someone get so absorbed into the almighty hip and trendy "MPG" to the point where ridicule and humiliation stop being a concern?


And why would you attempt to ridicule and humiliate me? That seems pretty mean spirited.

Reactions have been largely positive; most people are interested, or amused, or impressed with the utility. I'll admit that I enjoy the positive attention it brings, but first and foremost it's about saving money. I put it together for under $300, and it has probably saved me in the area of $4-5,000 in the past year alone. I've put more than 10,000 miles on this trailer moving heavy musical equipment and furniture across the country.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
How does someone get so absorbed into the almighty hip and trendy "MPG" to the point where ridicule and humiliation stop being a concern?

Why would you ridicule him? Not my cup of tea, and I don't care near that much about MPG (I drive a Silverado and a Camaro after all) but I think that's a bit of ingenious engineering that makes sense.

Save your ridicule for those who deserve it, i.e. the people who buy those magnetic fuel atomizer things or electric turbos and such nonsense.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
I'd never personally ridicule. He can go all out with the MPG craze if that's what he's into. I'd laugh quite a bit if I did see that on the road though.
 
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