Elio motors. 3 wheeler car that promises 84 mpg and $6800

[WackyDan]

Found this Gem on the Elio blog.

http://blog.eliomotors.com/lets-talk-about-laws-5-16-14/

Looks like they are actively lobbying to change helmet laws and license requirements for the Elio on a state by state basis and getting some traction. So, it looks like they actually are opening up their market little by little.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

More good news for ELIO Motors -

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/10/24/elio-motors-185-million-request-advances-under-does-restarted/

Elio Motors Passes First Review Phase for U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan Marks first company to advance to due diligence phase since program was revamped in early 2014

TROY, Mich., Oct. 23, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- Elio Motors Inc., makers of the ultra-fuel efficient Elio, announced today that its application for a DOE ATVM loan has passed the first of three phases of review. Now deemed "substantially complete," the application will move to the due diligence phase.

Elio Motors is seeking a $185 million ATVM loan to accelerate the company's plans to begin production of its enclosed, three-wheeled vehicle in Shreveport, Louisiana, in 2015.

The DOE ATVM loan program supports the production of fuel-efficient, advanced technology vehicles and components in the United States. The program has invested billions of dollars in projects by major automakers such as Ford and Nissan as well as startups like Tesla Motors. Congress created the ATVM program with $25 billion in loan authority in 2007; the program was revamped recently and resumed activity in April 2014 with more than $16 billion in remaining loan authority.

"While this is just one step and there is a long way to go, we are pleased that DOE has moved expeditiously thus far on our loan application," said Paul Elio, CEO of Elio Motors. "With a $6,800 sticker price that makes ultra-fuel efficient transportation affordable to the general public, we believe Elio is exactly the kind of American-made innovation that the loan program was designed to foster."

Elio Motors will create approximately 3000 jobs, 1,500 in Shreveport alone, where the company will occupy approximately 1.5 million square feet of a 4.1 million-square-foot former General Motors manufacturing facility. The company is in the process of working with its manufacturing partner, Comau, to sell surplus GM manufacturing equipment that Elio acquired along with the plant. Those sales will help raise additional funds toward the production of the new vehicle.

Elio already has more than 35,000 reservations for the innovative vehicle, which will get up to 84 MPG and sell for $6,800 – setting it far apart from other ultra-fuel efficient vehicles available to the general public. A prototype is attracting the attention of thousands of people during a nationwide tour.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

Release the car already, ffs.

 

[tortoise]

Polaris Slingshot 3-wheeler is only around $24,000.

 

[CHARLIEBORG]

Needs to come in two seater version.

It is a two seater...one right behind the other!

 

[Kaido]

Press Release: Elio Motors Becomes First Start-up Vehicle Manufacturer to Build Engine From the Ground up in 60 years; Engine to Debut at Media Event Feb. 6:

http://www.eliomotors.com/press-rel...0-years-engine-to-debut-at-media-event-feb-6/

Nearly 40k pre-orders so far. Production is expected in the first half of 2016:

http://www.ksla.com/story/27863047/elio-motors-announces-delay-production-expected-to-start-in-2016

This will be a great car for a lot of people if it ever materializes.

 

[halik]

Somewhat worrisome they decided to build their own engine; tooling is very expensive. There's about no way they can recoup that at 7K a unit.

http://gas2.org/2013/08/21/the-elio-motors-saga-if-it-looks-like-a-dale-and-quacks-like-a-dale/

 

[LTC8K6]

Somewhat worrisome they decided to build their own engine; tooling is very expensive. There's about no way they can recoup that at 7K a unit.

http://gas2.org/2013/08/21/the-elio-motors-saga-if-it-looks-like-a-dale-and-quacks-like-a-dale/

Apparently IAV built it. And Gas2 now has a decidedly different tone about the Elio car.

http://gas2.org/2015/01/15/elio-motors-shows-off-engine-realsies/

 

[Yuriman]

Interesting. SOHC, two valves per cylinder, no VVT or direct injection. Looks like a traditional alternator. There's a bit behind the crank pulley that might be the oil or water pump, I'm guessing oil, so maybe an electric water pump and either electric or no power steering. I have a hard time imagining this block as being the final production piece, as it has a lot of excess metal. I'd like to see some more details.

I wonder how this compares to the engine Honda used in the G1 Insight? I'm sure Honda's is far more expensive to produce, but it produced about 20% more power (from the numbers I can find on Elio's design), had the ability to lean out to as much as 25:1 AFR, and was saddled with a much more efficient system for generating electricity, which accounts for a very significant loss in efficiency in most cars. Honda claimed 70mpg highway with the old EPA cycle and 60 with the new using the 5MT. The car weighed in around 1850lbs and had a coefficient of drag or around 0.25 and a frontal area of ~20ft². If Elio is to beat those numbers (by 40%!), they're going to need some significant combination of smaller frontal area, better Cd, and less weight / rolling resistance. I'm guessing with their claimed 0-60 numbers, the car must weigh in around 1250lbs.

 

[tweakmonkey]

The Elio will definitely have a much smaller frontal area, and even without the crazy aero design of the gen 1 Insight (which I own!) it should have minimal drag, because it's so tiny. Here's a pic I took at an Elio tour:
http://instagram.com/p/xpbZdTCFpj/?modal=true

I saw it driving around the parking lot and it had some really rough sounding engine at the time. I might have videos.

That said, the Insight is really the perfect car for the average commuter. It's fun to drive, actually rather sporty suspension and has a lot of practical use. The hatchback is big enough for many shopping bags and even some larger items. I used to bring my bike and a bunch of gear out on trips. I've gone camping and brought all my gear for me and a guest, ice chest and a ton of food. I don't think the Elio could ever offer that level of practicality. That said it will get even better mileage allegedly and be a whole lot cheaper, so maybe for work-only driving 40 miles round trip etc it's a good option. Still a lack of auto-stop or any type of EV mode is kind of a bummer since that's what many commuters are getting here (and eMPG of like 100+ anyway).

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Press Release: Elio Motors Becomes First Start-up Vehicle Manufacturer to Build Engine From the Ground up in 60 years; Engine to Debut at Media Event Feb. 6:

http://www.eliomotors.com/press-rel...0-years-engine-to-debut-at-media-event-feb-6/

Nearly 40k pre-orders so far. Production is expected in the first half of 2016:


This will be a great car for a lot of people if it ever materializes.

I thought this was the Geo Metro block with a bunch of new technology put into the heads, valves, fuel injection to get it to pass current emissions and become more fuel efficient. Elio discussed this at CES I thought and when he applied for the AEV loan.

The original Geo Metro motor used a carburetor which has been in the

 

[Yuriman]

I thought this was the Geo Metro block with a bunch of new technology put into the heads, valves, fuel injection to get it to pass current emissions and become more fuel efficient. Elio discussed this at CES I thought and when he applied for the AEV loan.

The original Geo Metro motor used a carburetor which has been in the

I suppose once you're that far, you might as well "start from scratch".

Timing chain, check. Direct ignition (no distributor), check. Fuel injection, check.

Geo Metro engine has a 9.5:1 compression ratio, which is relatively low today. Mess with compression and you're probably going to want to redesign the intake and exhaust.

Probably worthwhile to have an offset crankshaft, to allow for a longer stroke or just reduce sidewall friction.

New rings with modern coatings (Mg)? Shot-peened skirts?

Oils have come a ways since then too, so the engine can probably be designed with tighter tolerances.

 

[WackyDan]

Polaris Slingshot 3-wheeler is only around $24,000.

No roof, no AC.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I really hope they can be a success as this would be a good car for a lot of people, and if nothing else maybe it'll open up regulations some. I just hope that it can get close to what it could offer (if it can get 60mpg plus I think it'd still be pretty good, but it'd probably be deemed a failure for not living up to it's claim) and doesn't have any major issues (i.e. unreliable).

I think this company could have Tesla like impact, now they just need a bit of luck and help to follow a Tesla like route to success.

I also can't wait to see the people that buy these and then swap in a high performance motorcycle backend.

 

[LTC8K6]

Service and Warranty provided by Pep Boys “Official Service Center”

 

[WackyDan]

I really hope they can be a success as this would be a good car for a lot of people, and if nothing else maybe it'll open up regulations some. I just hope that it can get close to what it could offer (if it can get 60mpg plus I think it'd still be pretty good, but it'd probably be deemed a failure for not living up to it's claim) and doesn't have any major issues (i.e. unreliable).

I think this company could have Tesla like impact, now they just need a bit of luck and help to follow a Tesla like route to success.

I also can't wait to see the people that buy these and then swap in a high performance motorcycle backend.

They have achieved 81.4 MPG in testing on the current design and have stated that if they went to production today, they would have to charge $7300...

So it seems like they are still working towards it, but I still say they won't sell many until every state classifies them as autocycles - which is what ELio is lobbying them for.

ANd by sell many..I mean tens of thousands per year... Not just the 40k they have deposits on.

 

[WackyDan]

Service and Warranty provided by Pep Boys “Official Service Center”

Makes you wonder if the dealer orgs will challenge them on a direct sales model like they are with Tesla... Yet another hurdle.

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't think I'm trusting anything serviced at Pep Boys...

 

[RedArmy]

This car was getting a lot of attention at Barrett Jackson. For both days I was there, the booth was swarmed with people and someone was always in the demo car checking it out. I had no idea what it was up until then!

 

[MadScientist]

Production delayed until first half of 2016.
http://gas2.org/2015/01/16/elio-production-delayed-time-mid-2016/

 

[darkswordsman17]

Service and Warranty provided by Pep Boys “Official Service Center”

While I could see a lot of people rolling their eyes and thinking that's terrible, I actually think that could be a good thing. Sounds like Pep Boys is taking it seriously and is planning some interesting ways of going about it. While I'm sure it won't live up to their lofty ideals (if I remember, Pep Boys said they're going to teach their mechanics to treat everyone the same and explain what they're doing, even noted they're aiming to do that to women who apparently have gotten frustrated with the lack of openness and honesty from dealers and/or mechanics), I do think it could help a lot of people learn more about cars/engines/etc. It will definitely be an interesting experiment.

They have achieved 81.4 MPG in testing on the current design and have stated that if they went to production today, they would have to charge $7300...

So it seems like they are still working towards it, but I still say they won't sell many until every state classifies them as autocycles - which is what ELio is lobbying them for.

ANd by sell many..I mean tens of thousands per year... Not just the 40k they have deposits on.

That's good news then. I didn't know how close they were to achieving their aims. Close, but yeah still work to do. Hopefully they can get the DOE loans and everything else setup so they can. I knew they were dealing with the classification stuff and I hope they can get things worked out (which could also help other companies).

But yeah there's a lot of hurdles between them and selling even Corvette numbers (15-40K) every year. But if they do things well I could see them pulling Mustang/Camaro (~100K) a year easy and possibly a lot more.

Production delayed until first half of 2016.
http://gas2.org/2015/01/16/elio-production-delayed-time-mid-2016/

Not surprising and I think it's smart for them to try and get it right instead of rush things out just to get them out. Hoping they're able to though and not suffer any major setbacks or other issues (hoping they do fire testing in depth) that'd sink them.

If nothing else this would be a great work commuter car that would leave a lot of room for a luxury/performance vehicle for other situations. It'd make a great first car for a teenager (cheap, efficient, hopefully safe, and can't fit more than one of their friends; plus it'd teach them that if they want a nice car they better bust their ass and earn it; plus if they get a motorcycle itch then maybe they can learn to do a motorcycle backend swap that I expect will be somewhat popular for this, and this would be safer for young dumb kid than a motorcycle).

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...01/16/production-wheel-elio-delayed/21849385/

After the meeting, Elio said he's raised more than $65 million in capital so far, but he needs $230 million more to begin production.

Developer Stuart Lichter, who's leasing space in the old General Motors Plant to Elio Motors, said he is a firm believer in the start-up automaker, but Elio Motors will not meet the 2015 deadline to reserve its space in the plant as outlined in their contract.

"I'm a real great believer in the car, and I'm also a real great believer in what it would socially do for the economic impact on people who need a low-cost vehicle of quality," Lichter said. "I'm really committed to doing everything I can to get this car into production. But, at the same time, we have a facility. We have investors that we have to be responsible to so I can only go so far."

 

[Midwayman]

Service and Warranty provided by Pep Boys “Official Service Center”

Reminds me of those cheap POS Chinese scooters and dirt bikes they sometimes sell. *shudder*

 

[Mandres]

So they're 200 million short of their funding requirements and they just lost their factory space? And still don't have a production prototype - just a cobbled-together demo unit?

I wish them luck, really. But don't put any money into this guys, seriously.

 

[tortoise]

Reddit July 2,2015 Elio Motors Ask Me Anything.