Elio motors. 3 wheeler car that promises 84 mpg and $6800

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Mar 11, 2004
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Anyone care to summarize the current situation? I don't want to try to read through Reddit mess to figure it out.

So they're 200 million short of their funding requirements and they just lost their factory space? And still don't have a production prototype - just a cobbled-together demo unit?

I wish them luck, really. But don't put any money into this guys, seriously.

That sucks, didn't know they were having setbacks still. In a way I kinda wish they could strike a partnership with one of the major OEMs that might be able to help them get the issues worked out quicker.

Wishful thinking, but maybe someone like McLaren, that could help them longer term (materials, design, setting up production facilities), and McLaren might get some benefit from pairing up (via them needing to have better fuel economy cars, so Elio could help boost their averages, enabling them to keep making high end sports cars). Actually Gordan Murray probably would've been a good fit with his production line design that he was working on (and he just struck a deal with TVR to help them do that).

Yeah, I really hope they can make it a reality and it turns out well. I'd be very interested (for a few reasons, have a couple of teenage nephews that are getting to the driving age, have family members that commute a ways without the need for a lot of room, and I'd personally love one either for commuting or for having a cheap means of travel, kinda like backpacking but having an actual car so not having to be in the elements like on a motorcycle).
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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I'm chomping to buy one used and drop a turbo in it.

It could be a seriously fun car to mod, both performance-wise & aesthetics. Do some retro teardrop wheel covers & aero-fin type of stuff. Like a modable Plymouth Prowler!
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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Why did it have to be 3 wheels? I don't understand why it couldn't have just been a normal, 4 wheel, stable car...
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
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It could be a seriously fun car to mod, both performance-wise & aesthetics. Do some retro teardrop wheel covers & aero-fin type of stuff. Like a modable Plymouth Prowler!

Be prepared to lose 10-30mpg on the highway after you start modifying the body.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
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Neat idea. I haven't read the whole thread but is the $6800 price legit or is that a kit version without an engine?
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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How do they plan to get 84mpg when even motorcycles don't have that kind of fuel economy and they're much lighter?
 

Bull Dog

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2005
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Motorcycles typically have poor fuel economy is because the aerodynamics are terrible. I suppose also many/most motorcycle engines are also not built/tuned to be as fuel efficient as possible either.
 

natto fire

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2000
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How do they plan to get 84mpg when even motorcycles don't have that kind of fuel economy and they're much lighter?

I haven't been keeping up with this, but my guess is drag. Maybe they are quoting highway economy, where aerodynamics play much more importance than curb weight.
 

Yuriman

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Jun 25, 2004
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How do they plan to get 84mpg when even motorcycles don't have that kind of fuel economy and they're much lighter?

I already get 90mpg+ in my car, 84mpg in a 15 year newer vehicle with half the frontal area , less weight and 10% less engine seems reasonably achievable.

Hell, a Prius can nearly get that cruising at 45-55 with the A/C off.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I already get 90mpg+ in my car, 84mpg in a 15 year newer vehicle with half the frontal area , less weight and 10% less engine seems reasonably achievable.

Hell, a Prius can nearly get that cruising at 45-55 with the A/C off.

Ditch the hybrid system and see how much you get.
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
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Ditch the hybrid system and see how much you get.

Exactly the same. The hybrid system adds power to a small (arguably undersized) motor, it doesn't increase fuel economy when cruising. You can get nearly the same economy out of a 90's Geo Metro XFi, though most consider them to be metal deathtraps.

In fact, I have a toggle switch on my shifter that allows me to turn on and off electric assist and regeneration. Most of the time I leave it off.

EDIT: What do you think hybrids do to increase economy anyway?

EDIT2: If I remember correctly, Elio was originally considering licensing the Geo Metro's engine from Suzuki, but they couldn't quite make their fuel economy goals with a 20 year old design. So, they borrowed from it and modernized it.
 
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Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
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You must be hypermilling or something, your prius is rated at 41mpg https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/16705.shtml yet you get twice that? And that metro xfi was rated at 51mpg yet again you found someone that gets almost twice that?

I don't own a Prius.

My father-in-law drives his Prius like an asshole and still averages around 50. When I've borrowed it, I've seen the gauge climb as high as 70-80mpg while taking it easy on country roads (but doing nothing special, just driving in a straight line at a steady speed).

Though my Honda Insight was rated for 70mpg from the factory, if you take it out on a warm day and drive in a straight line at a steady speed, with zero modifications, this is what you get:



How to read the gauge: 63mph presently, 2300RPM, hybrid system neither charging nor assisting, currently getting 100mpg, averaging 94mpg over 35.7 miles.




How to read the gauge: 44mph presently, 1700RPM, hybrid system neither charging nor assisting, currently getting 110mpg, averaging 118.4mpg over 9.3 miles.

The XFi was rated for 51, but like these two cars, if you drive it in a straight line on a flat road on a warm day, you'll see 60+ or even 70+mpg.


Although I'll grant you that there are technical advantages to a hybrid such as being able to capture energy when braking and shutting the engine off at stop lights (you don't even need a hybrid for this anymore), 95% of the fuel economy savings come from cutting weight, tweaking the body shape, using noisy and generally poorer handling LRR tires, downsizing the engine and gearing it to keep RPMs low on the highway. You'll notice that none of these have anything at all to do with the hybrid systems, which exist (in my mind) for two main purposes:

1) To make it so that people feel better about buying an economy car. Suddenly, that underpowered, noisy, bumpy econobox is cool, and supposed to be that way, and

2) To make driving that econobox slightly more bearable. Although I understand the transmission in a Prius can't technically run without the hybrid system functioning, if it could, you'd be pretty miserable driving around town without electric assist making that 1.5-1.8L Atkinson cycle engine feel bigger than it is.

Honda's Insight CAN be driven without the hybrid system functioning, because all the hybrid system is, is an electric motor where the flywheel used to be, that either assists or drags on the engine. With the hybrid system disabled, it delivers exactly the same fuel economy, but you lose 75% of the torque at low RPM, so you're tempted to rev it up and lose economy.

The XFi was in essence the same thing as a Honda Insight without the electric assist. It takes the better part of 14 seconds to get to 60, has no sound insulation and uses tiny tires, and for these reasons it gets phenomenal fuel economy.

EDIT: And this is exactly what Elio is doing. They're taking a Geo Metro and cutting the frontal area by half, tweaking the body shape, cutting weight, modernizing the interior, and getting it to pass safety standards by avoiding them. As a result, you have an 84mpg car that accelerates about 40% better than a Geo Metro because, surprise, it weighs 40% less. It does this using a very simple engine design which lacks variable timing or cam profiles and doesn't use DI. It's essentially a 20 year old Metro engine with a timing chain.
 
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Griffinhart

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2004
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I already get 90mpg+ in my car, 84mpg in a 15 year newer vehicle with half the frontal area , less weight and 10% less engine seems reasonably achievable.

Hell, a Prius can nearly get that cruising at 45-55 with the A/C off.

I do find your claim of 90mpg in a 15 year old car a bit hard to believe. But, a Prius getting 45 mpg is still around twice the amount of gas being used.

But a Prius can't do that for under $7000 new. The idea of the Elio car is something that delivers amazing MPG while being super affordable.

I really love the idea of having one of these for a second vehicle for winters.
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,199
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I don't own a Prius.

Though my Honda Insight was rated for 70mpg from the factory, if you take it out on a warm day and drive in a straight line at a steady speed, with zero modifications, this is what you get:


You are hypermiling - YAY for you!

If you hypermile a Elio, perhaps you will see drastic differences than it's EPA rating as well.

Your anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. We're talking EPA ratings, not 63mph on a flat road with the ambient temperature of 72 degrees with a slight tailwind.
 
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