Elite Members spamming for RC5.

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dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
My one message is all the inconvenience the candidates for recruitment get. You don't see me complain about the 20+ messages I had to answer from a few socially-starved geek teenagers for whom it was their first private message and who asked me for dating advice and the best acne medication. I get up to 30 PMs every day from members asking me for guidance on all kinds of subjects and situations anyway or from people who need someone who simply will listen.

People who are well aware of rc5 and are not cracking can be considered to have rejected this endeavour with a clear mind. My message provides most of the relevant data on which to base such a decision to those who might otherwise not come across that information. Call it spoon feeding if you like but spending the 2-3 minutes necessary to read it does require less effort on their part than doing the research on their own. Some people who had rejected rc5 because of hastily misconceived notions did in fact reconsider in the light of more and better-organized information and joined our team.

What some call spamming, in electoral circles we call canvassing. When I was able-bodied, I used to do it door-to-door and encountered my fair share of both favourable and hostile greetings when trying to put forward my candidate as the best choice for the municipality, the district, the province or the country. I am simply knocking on the candidate's AnandTech electronic door and presenting my case. Instead of being done in an oral manner, it is done with written words because that happens to be the medium which allows the flow of information from the recruiter to the candidate in this case.

Uninformed people cannot choose. Informed people can. By providing candidates with relevant data, I empower those people and allow them to decide, yes or no.

Although I'm a Canadian, in terms like those of U.S. constitutional politics, I would classify myself as a broad constructionist. When I am instructed to stop because judgement from the appropriate authorities formally declare my action to be illegal for this contest or this venue, I will obey. Until then, I consider that what is not expressly forbidden is allowed. Considering this my Louisiana purchase, it comes as no surprise that I would encounter resistance and even hostility from the strict constructionists within the AnandTech community.

BTW, WombatWoman did not write my message.

Also, Rendus, I did not give you my consent to make public a private message from me. I still do not and ask that the moderator delete the message from your post. This was a private message. I ask that no one who has seen it use it without my permission for I do not wish worthy candidates to get duplicate invitations by mistake.
 

Dale

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
503
0
0
Rendus welcome... we are very glad to have you on the team, and there are dozens of people ready to help you in any way that we can..
you may have already noticed that we are not perfect but I think you will find we are the best there is, and with your help we will become even better!!

Welcome

..Dale
great job Dennil ...
 

DanC

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2000
5,553
0
0
Welcome -
Shall we say... Rendus of Borg? That has a really nice ring to it
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
Nickdakick,

I doubt that this will put an end to this debate because there are some well-to-do people who feel harassed even when a starving panhandler extends his hand to beg for charity...

...on the other side of the street.

AnandTech being a large and diverse community, I am sure that I will encounter such inflexible people in my future attempts at recruitment.
 

Kilowatt

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,272
0
0
Come on people!
How much crap do you get from other "Non Solicited Sources"?
Do you reply to them, and ask to be taken off their email lists?
I'm sure some do, but most just delete them or put them in there block sender list.
(it's not that hard to do)

I know of a bunch of websites you sign up for, and are automatically put on their email list, weather you wanted to be or not.

I think raising a big stink about it, and not just replying that you don't want to receive them any more, is just showing you need something to complain about.

Disclaimer:
The above is the opinion of the author, and in no way is expressing the views of others
So flame on, because I don't agree with you!
 

vss1980

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2000
2,944
0
76
I said a long time ago in the TA irc that if another argument comes up in the DC part of the forum, I'd either ignore it or go in with guns blazing. Just remember, I'm not taking sides here.

Rendus,

Yes it is spam and like we do with every piece of spam, be it e-mail, letter, or else, just throw it away - after all it was in the first few lines 'I don't know if you are already cracking some rc5 -- if you are, you need not read any further.'

(Yes I have also got this PM)

dennilfloss,

You say you've done stuff like this before so you should know that there is the possiblity people will not welcome this particular PM. I think in future you may want to limit this PM to people who you have spoken to a little in the forums so you can get a possible idea of their character before sending this PM.

'AnandTech being a large and diverse community, I am sure that I will encounter such inflexible people in my future attempts at recruitment' - yes you will, which is why I suggest the above, although I think that is a little harsh. (Here's a song title for ya Dennilfloss: The Way I Am Eminem)

On a different note, I think that PM is a little biased towards TA Cube. I think if anyone would start cracking in response to that, they would join you anyway.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0


<< Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message, in an attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive it. >>



If the above is the definition of SPAM, then clearly what Denis is doing does not meet that definition.

1. He's not &quot;flooding the Internet&quot;.

2. It is not many copies of the &quot;same message&quot;.

3. Unlike eMail, which is essentially part and parcel of being on the web, PMs are an invitation to conversation; which is why I have mine disabled. I don't want to talk to any of you people. Bwuahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

Russ, NCNE
 

office boy

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
4,210
0
0
So if I send personalized PM's and emails to ONLY members of the Anandtech forums (all 36351 of them) Asking them to sign up with Amway under me, Is that ok?

Doesn?t seem like it should be to me.



<< Uninformed people cannot choose. Informed people can. By providing candidates with relevant data, I empower those people and allow them to decide, yes or no. >>


What a lame excuse for the blatant disregard of a person?s privacy. It is my decision as to whether I wish to be informed or UNinformed. MY CHOICE, and I?d venture a guess that no one else needs your unsolicited [edit]so called[/edit] enlightenment.
 

vss1980

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2000
2,944
0
76
As there is no definition of spam you can define it however you want, but I would totally agree with www.about.com's definition:

What is Spam?
There is no exact definition of &quot;spam&quot; (a definition, by the way, by definition is not exact). This is wonderful as we can state our own: for us, spam is any email you did not ask for, but get, from people you do not know who want to sell something to you. It is not sent only to you, however, but to every single email address the spammer can get hold of. In general, the products offered by spammers really need to be marketed by obtrusive measures like spam. Particularly interesting are those that try to sell mailing lists of people &quot;interested&quot; in a particular product, mailing lists that you are in fact a victim of. Link to this article

This would mean that:
1) He is spamming
2) It only takes the one message to be classed as spam
3) It doesn't count for just email. Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, Email is also personal regardless of if its part of being on the net. And as far as the PM's go Russ, your just Borg and talk would be inefficient
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0
vss1980,

Reading through the definition you offered, I come to the opposite conclusion as you. What Denis is doing does not meet the criteria outlined.

The bottom line for me is very simple: Denis is actually doing something productive to help Team AnandTech. While we sit around and debate the nuances of our approach to team growth, he got off his ass and did it.

Russ, NCNE


 

vss1980

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2000
2,944
0
76
Unfortunately Russ, your bottom line is not the point of this thread (which I think has been lost somewhere in all the replies). Also, as far as that bottom line goes, I did not discourage d'floss from continuing, but just offered the suggestion to scout out the people a bit first, this would then be more likely not to be counted as spam by them.

As far as spam definitions go, until its in the dictionary, you can call it whatever you like.
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
&quot;It is not sent only to you, however, but to every single email address the spammer can get hold of.&quot;

What I do falls in between. I do contact many people but I do not send an invitation to &quot;every single email&quot; I can get hold of.

For example, I do not contact someone who has rc5 or seti stats mentioned in their signature. I do not contact people who I remember having posted to this forum, even the DPC people. I do not attempt to recruit someone who is asking for help in a post because he/she has a problem with his/her computer or someone who is asking for suggestions before buying a system. I do not attempt to recruit someone who is posting about personal problems. Every person who receives an invitation from me can be confident that this means I have read at least one of their posts, evaluated them and deemed that they could help us with little effort. Some people are thankful because this is the first message they have ever received in the forums and are happy that someone simply noticed their existence. I am however attracted to people who boast of their system specs in their signature.

I reply politely to every PM. People who decline get a sincere apology for having disturbed them. People who do express an interest get supplied with step-by-step instructions for the easiest install. If there are problems or people wish to know more, I answer to the best of my knowledge. When I do not know the answer, I search the DC recent threads &amp; archives, the dnet FAQs and Paulson tutorial for them. If I still cannot find a satisfactory answer, I recommand that they post their question here and offer to do it for them and relay the answers back to them.

Believe me, it is a lot more work than simply selecting an appropriate candidate and sending the initial message. The follow-up messages must be taken into account.
 

nickdakick

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,484
0
0


<< . It is my decision as to whether I wish to be informed or UNinformed. MY CHOICE >>


Yes Office boy after reading the first lines ~5 seconds of your precious time here you go: YOUR CHOICE. Ignore it or read on. Just do it. The originator of this thread made his choice: he decided to read, his problem.
I do not know if you appreciate what Denis has done for this TeAm, I do. If he wants to continue, which is very unlikely after all this, I'll be with him.
 

office boy

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
4,210
0
0
dennilfloss, no one is trying to deny or belittle your efforts, I'm sure the amount of time and effort required to keep up with all the PM's is incredible. What you have done for this team has been great (not just getting new members). But the problem is that is is a bit of a controversial thing, (something that I personally don't think is in &quot;the spirit&quot; of the competition)
Frankly I'm surprised that the mod's haven't stepped in to stop you (not like I ever did understood anything about the mod's anyway )
Maybe you should just be more careful (selective) in your recruiting efforts, or maybe just lay off for a while?
 

nickdakick

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,484
0
0
Another point comes to my mind. I had several questions about song titles and my first intention was to PM Denis. Unasked PM ? Spam ? Dunno but being the gentleman he is he answered politely and competent everytime.

Seeing Denis being accused of spamming offends ME personally. :|
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
From another thread, with my italicizing:

---------------------
<<
Remember you can start your own list of users from people subscribing to lists or other methods you come up with (webforms.)
>>



Assuming you get email adddress from a method above and you are not getting your information from us, you can do what you want with those emails.

Its only when you get your email list from us that we have a problem with it.


moose

-------------------------------

I take this excerpt as an indication that me selecting candidates by noticing &amp; reading their posts in the forums, and evaluating their potential is not illegal in the eyes of the dnet head honchos. If people want to call what I do with the noticed names 'spam', so be it. If it falls within the rules, I will continue to do it. The alternative is to lay down and let the DPC win without a fight, however I happen to be a broad constructionist with a backbone. Turning to jelly in the face of adversity is not my style (I am not implying anything about anyone else but me).

To echo the words of Canada's Prime Minister Pierre-Elliott Trudeau when he invoked the War Measures Act during the 1970 October Crisis and was asked just how far he was prepared to go:

&quot;Just watch me.&quot;

If it is allowed, I will use that tool to keep the barbarian hordes at bay.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
To me, spamming indicates mass correspondence with no discretion as to who the recipient is. If Dennis chooses a single individual to send a message to, even if it's a canned message, how is that spamming? When you walk by somebody on the street and they say &quot;Hi&quot; do you chew them out? Their message wasn't original, and you didn't ask to be spoken to.

If he was a mod and used that to send messages to every board member without thought towards the individual, I would consider that spamming. But he doesn't appear to be doing that.
 

office boy

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
4,210
0
0
Read your own quote.

<< Remember you can start your own list of users from people subscribing to lists or other methods you come up with (webforms.)>>

People have to sign up first. Or else you are just harvesting addresses and PM's from Anandtech. And that also violates &quot;The Rules&quot; here

<<You agree that you will not post any copyrighted material without the express permission of the copyright holder, unless such copyright is owned by you, this forum or the AnandTech website. Advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also inappropriate on AnandTech Forums. >>

And why do Canadians love Pierre Trudeau so much? It's sickening to see so much love for a politician.
 

blade47

Golden Member
Dec 12, 1999
1,353
0
0
No one better PM me to ask anything unless I PM you first to tell you it's ok, because an unsolicited PM from you would be spam.:| Wait a minute I can't PM you first or I would be spamming you.:frown: I guess I could post a thread to ask if it's ok if I can PM you. Or would something be wrong with that. Uh..When is it ok to PM someone to ask them something?

Boy this is ridiculous.
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
Office Boy,

If the AnandTech Administrator or Anand himself asks me to stop, I will comply but I will definitely argue my case to them if they approach me about it. Remember that I am recruiting strictly for Team AnandTech within the AnandTech forums, using AnandTech private messaging and not indiscriminately. As for 'harvesting addresses and PMs from AnandTech', I classify this under 'other methods' (of which the use of webforms was mentioned as an example).
 

MooCow

Senior member
Oct 12, 1999
237
0
0
I strongly think some of you need to rethink your definitoin of spam. The way I'm reading how you think of spam, I could very well be spamming you right now just by posting this message. For that matter the entire forums are just a giant mass of spam! I'm really not sure how anyone could consider what Dennis is doing to be spam. Well, perhaps you could if you really wanted to. anywho, I say carry on Dennis you're doing a terrific job.
 
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