Elizabeth Warren takes a DNA test. Trump lies about charity offer.

[zinfamous]

She ain't no Indian. If she runs for POTUS this is gonna be sooooo fun!

Well, she's definitely not an Indian. Hey, I bet it feels good to be right for once, eh?



Jesus Fucking Christ you racist motherfuckers are just ignorant beyond calculation.

 

[HurleyBird]

1.5% is 1/64 and literally EVERYONE who has an ancestor that was a Native American has lineal descent from that Native American. How would it be non lineal? That would make absolutely no sense what so ever. It might be that I'm missing something here.

You're missing a few things. He's not saying that 1/64 == 1.5% (more like 1.6%), he's saying that the bare minimum is actually 1/16th or 6.25%. On top of that, only a few tribes are so lenient. Most are more strict. Did you not read my post about this just above his?

DNA testing doesn't prove ancestry, it shows that there are some degree of common genetic markers between an individual and a group of people, and the statistics portion of DNA testing changes as the sample size grows. So for one example, if you have an initial group A that splits off into group B and C, an individual descended from group C may share markers with group B even though there isn't lineal descent.

As an aside, it really amazing how a certain group on this board is acting all smug and superior all the while being completely wrong just because they took an unrealistic claim at face value without bothering to google its truth value. I don't care if people are idiots, and I don't care so much if people who deserve it are smug. Just don't be smug idiots.

 

[compuwiz1]

Well, she's definitely not an Indian. Hey, I bet it feels good to be right for once, eh?



Jesus Fucking Christ you racist motherfuckers are just ignorant beyond calculation.

You consider the word "Indian" racist? A casino where I used to live advertised that they were on the Indian reservation. I think you're confusing me with CNN, where they call black people token negroes.

 

[HomerJS]

Because there are different flavors of racism in practice. The flavor the Democrats have in place is not what appeals to the Nazis. The issue here isn't that a particular racist group leans right vs. left, the issue is that you and the other leftist sheeple don't realize that you're the real racists today, you are more like the Nazis than the right. Nazis are likely fucking idiots and haven't seen it either, like much of the left they're too blinded by hate to see straight, I'm sure.

Really? The left are not disparaging white people based on their race. The left is not treating white people as suspect because they are white.

BTW - White people made up the one drop rule and now you don't want to live with it??

 

[Thump553]

Reading through this thread it appears that the righwing trolls here are either BS'ing us about their lack of knowledge about dixiecrats and Nixon's successful push in 1968 to move the dixiecrats over to the GOP where they are a major part of the GOP base today, or they never paid the slightest bit of attention to their American History and Civics courses in school. That's stuff I learned in elementary school and junior high (nka middle school) decades ago (except I lived through the GOP's grab of the dixiecrats).

Assuming they are just ignorant, here is a greatly oversimplified summary. The GOP party started in the 1850s, primarily based upon abolition of slavery. Both the GOP and the Democratic Party included what we now call right and left wings. After the Civil War, the Democratic was the dominant party in the South as whites down there cursed the GOP as the party that caused the "war of aggression." The GOP grew more and more conservative in the late 1800s-although there were many, many moderate GOP well up to at least the Reagan administration. (As an aside, I grew up in New England and except in the cities the GOP was the dominant party here through the same era). In the twentieth century the Democratic Party's base was groups antagonistic towards each other-Dixiecrats on one side, big city and on the other, blue collar union workers and liberals, etc.

Basically what happened it that southern politicians that were first elected as Democrats switched in mass to the GOP. They were the exact same people with a new party label. Thus giving support to the trolls arguing terrible things Democrats did-when those people in fact became Republicans and continues to do the same stuff-disenfranchising voters for example.

It really isn't that hard to understand, its factual and well documented. The troll's purported ignorance has to be a put on.

 

[Jaskalas]

You think that's fake? Bullshit.

They are delusional because they identify with Republicans and everyone is a hero in their own mind. The Ego won't have it any other way. However much the facts are unflattering, is equal to the strength of the delusion. The Ego will poison the mind until they are convinced to either ignore or twist the Dixiecrat history. It's not fake, they simply cannot comprehend the information.

 

[IronWing]

You're missing a few things. He's not saying that 1/64 == 1.5% (more like 1.6%), he's saying that the bare minimum is actually 1/16th or 6.25%. On top of that, only a few tribes are so lenient. Most are more strict. Did you not read my post about this just above his?

DNA testing doesn't prove ancestry, it shows that there are some degree of common genetic markers between an individual and a group of people, and the statistics portion of DNA testing changes as the sample size grows. So for one example, if you have an initial group A that splits off into group B and C, an individual descended from group C may share markers with group B even though there isn't lineal descent.

As an aside, it really amazing how a certain group on this board is acting all smug and superior all the while being completely wrong just because they took an unrealistic claim at face value without bothering to google its truth value. I don't care if people are idiots, and I don't care so much if people who deserve it are smug. Just don't be smug idiots.

Did Trump make good on his word yet? Has he put on his big boy pants and paid up or is he still lying?

 

[HurleyBird]

Did Trump make good on his word yet? Has he put on his big boy pants and paid up or is he still lying?

You need to work on your reading comprehension. Trump said that he'd pay up if the DNA test showed that Warren qualified as an Indian. It shows the opposite.

 

[IronWing]

This is what he said:
“I’m going to get one of those little [DNA testing] kits and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims she’s of Indian heritage...," Trump said. “And we will say, ‘I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.' And we’ll see what she does. I have a feeling she will say no, but we will hold it for the debates.”

No "qualified" weasel words found. Warren put up and Trump should stop pouting and pay as promised.

 

[Zorba]

This sounds far too stupid to be true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_Degree_of_Indian_Blood

And apparently it isn't. Depends on the tribe, but bare minimum looks to be 1/16th.

The least strict tribal nations require 1/16, and/or direct lineal descent from a original member of the tribal rolls.

The leader of the Cherokee Nation does qualify under Cherokee tribal rules due to direct lineal descent, but Elizabeth Warren would not qualify under any tribe's rules, much less the Cherokee Nation's.

You all need better links:

Cherokee Nation, no required percentage: http://www.cherokeeregistry.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=415&Itemid=626
Creek Nation, no required percentage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscogee_(Creek)_Nation#Enrollment
All the other Oklahoma tribes: http://thorpe.ou.edu/OILS/blood.html

I was wrong about the 1/64, I've heard that number a lot, but most of the major tribe in Oklahoma don't require any specific ratio. And of course you have to be able to trace it back to a known person from the rolls, because before a couple of years ago sending in a DNA test wasn't possible and I doubt it still isn't accurate enough to pin down a specific tribe.

 

[HurleyBird]

“And we will say, ‘I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.'

Exactly, Trump didn't say "If you have even one drop of Indian DNA." He didn't even say "If it shows you have an Indian ancestor." Indian is a legal term and the DNA test doesn't come close to satisfying it. She doesn't qualify. That's not a weasel word. You either qualify as an Indian or you don't.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Oh so liberals are the real racists it just so happens that the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazis happen to identity with the republicans?

What an amazing coincidence! Hahahahah.

Thank you for this.

What you're not getting is that they're not the only groups of racists.

 

[HurleyBird]

I was wrong about the 1/64, I've heard that number a lot, but most of the major tribe in Oklahoma don't require any specific ratio. And of course you have to be able to trace it back to a known person from the rolls, because before a couple of years ago sending in a DNA test wasn't possible and I doubt it still isn't accurate enough to pin down a specific tribe.

IEC mentioned lineage and the links are fine (and also list many more tribes that only have a lineal requirement). Warren isn't claiming a specific lineal heritage. She only has a DNA test which doesn't meet any of the blood quantum requirements.

 

[IronWing]

Exactly, Trump didn't say "If you have even one drop of Indian DNA." He didn't even say "If it shows you have an Indian ancestor." Indian is a legal term and the DNA test doesn't come close to satisfying it. She doesn't qualify. That's not a weasel word. You either qualify as an Indian or you don't.

Nonsense, Trump proposed the means of testing, not Warren, not the tribes, nor anyone else. By Trump's own testing method, Warren passed and Trump should pay as he promised.

That the Cherokee objected is fine; it simply demonstrates that Trump doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

 

[Zorba]

I think this just about covers it:

https://twitter.com/CherokeeNation?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

LoL. Trump should give her the million. Maybe she could buy a clue.

Too bad their statement makes no sense, considering she made no claim of tribal membership. Many of their members are pissed about the statement as well.

 

[zinfamous]

Exactly, Trump didn't say "If you have even one drop of Indian DNA." He didn't even say "If it shows you have an Indian ancestor." Indian is a legal term and the DNA test doesn't come close to satisfying it. She doesn't qualify. That's not a weasel word. You either qualify as an Indian or you don't.

Trump lost his bet. He qualified the terms and lost. That's really all there is to it. Are you going to chickenshit out of it with him?

Is that what the sad, pathetic, childish GOP has become? LoL-absolutely no responsibility.

 

[Zorba]

IEC mentioned lineage and the links are fine (and also list many more tribes that only have a lineal requirement). Warren isn't claiming a specific lineal heritage. She only has a DNA test which doesn't meet any of the blood quantum requirements.

No shit, if she knew the linage she wouldn't have needed the DNA test. Many people that have Native American blood can't she a linage back to the rolls, doesn't mean they don't have native blood, just that they aren't eligible for tribal membership.

But I like how you said over and over that 1/16 was the max ANY tribe would allow, including the Cherokees, I proved you wrong and you just ignore that part of my post.

 

[IJTSSG]

That stupid bitch is as white as wonder bread and President Trump doesn't owe her a dime.

 

[HurleyBird]

Nonsense, Trump proposed the means of testing, not Warren, not the tribes, nor anyone else. By Trump's own testing method, Warren passed and Trump should pay as he promised.

That the Cherokee objected is fine; it simply demonstrates that Trump doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

Trump lost his bet. He qualified the terms and lost. That's really all there is to it. Are you going to chickenshit out of it with him?

Is that what the sad, pathetic, childish GOP has become? LoL-absolutely no responsibility.

The terms are if the DNA test shows that Warren is an Indian. It shows the opposite. Shouldn't be this hard to understand.

What you two are doing is reading into his statement "What he really meant to say wasn't 'shows her an Indian' but that the test needs to show she doesn't have any Indian ancestry at all," and while it is conceivably possible that this is what Trump meant, it's very dumb (or entirely intellectually dishonest if you're on the ball enough to do so purposefully) to take that small amount of ambiguity, interpret it in the best possible way to suit your ends, and then state it as a fact.

 

[IronWing]

That stupid bitch is as white as wonder bread and President Trump doesn't owe her a dime.

Temper, temper. Just because your suck toy lost a bet is no reason for you to get hysterical.

 

[IronWing]

The terms are if the DNA test shows that Warren is an Indian. It shows the opposite. Shouldn't be this hard to understand.

What you two are doing is reading into his statement "What he really meant to say wasn't 'shows her an Indian' but that the test needs to show she doesn't have any Indian ancestry at all," and while it is conceivably possible that is what Trump meant, it's stupid as well as entirely intellectually dishonest to take that small amount of ambiguity, interpret it in the best possible way to suit your ends, and then state it as a fact.

We're not reading into anything. Trump's words are very clear. He lost and needs to pay up. I would say his reputation is on the line but that would be ridiculous at this point.

 

[Zorba]

The terms are if the DNA test shows that Warren is an Indian. It shows the opposite. Shouldn't be this hard to understand.

What you two are doing is reading into his statement "What he really meant to say wasn't 'shows her an Indian' but that the test needs to show she doesn't have any Indian ancestry at all," and while it is conceivably possible that this is what Trump meant, it's very dumb (or entirely intellectually dishonest if you're on the ball enough to do so purposefully) to take that small amount of ambiguity, interpret it in the best possible way to suit your ends, and then state it as a fact.

Except her claim was that her great-great-great-grandma was native, which lines up pretty well with the DNA test results. Trump claimed she was lying about what she claimed, DNA test shows otherwise. She has never claimed to be a high percentage Native American.

 

[HurleyBird]

We're not reading into anything. Trump's words are very clear.

OK, show it.

 

[zinfamous]

The terms are if the DNA test shows that Warren is an Indian. It shows the opposite. Shouldn't be this hard to understand.

What you two are doing is reading into his statement "What he really meant to say wasn't 'shows her an Indian' but that the test needs to show she doesn't have any Indian ancestry at all," and while it is conceivably possible that this is what Trump meant, it's very dumb (or entirely intellectually dishonest if you're on the ball enough to do so purposefully) to take that small amount of ambiguity, interpret it in the best possible way to suit your ends, and then state it as a fact.

You're reading into an assumption that Trump ever knows what the fuck he is talking about, or that he ever expects to be held accountable for anything that he says or does.

Don't be that guy. Jut accept that Trump was as wrong as wrong could possibly be, and that he owes her 1 million bucks (which he probably doesn't have, actually)

 

[HurleyBird]

Except her claim was that her great-great-great-grandma was native, which lines up pretty well with the DNA test results.

I wouldn't call missing between three and seven greats "lining up pretty well." At the high end, it's at best in the "agree to disagree" territory, and at the low end it's farcical.