Ellen Pao loses her lawsuit, now she is unemployable.

[Victorian Gray]

Bring back public shaming

 

[Exophase]

Think about what you are going to do, before you do it.

It's good advice. The kind everyone should follow. And the kind that everyone fails to at some point.

How miserable it would be were we all branched when we fucked up because we didn't think enough about what we were doing. Maybe if it happened to more of us people would be less harsh.

Don't attack a cashier over corporate policy.

"I don't know how you live with yourself and work here"

She's just a cashier.

Was he too scared to speak to management that way?

I'm having a really hard time seeing how this rant would have been better were it directed to her manager. They're just as far removed from whatever donations and statements the CEO makes. Should we sympathize less with a manager because he or she makes more money?

 

[LTC8K6]

Today, people shame themselves in public, and then often think they should be immune from any consequences.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm having a really hard time seeing how this rant would have been better were it directed to her manager. They're just as far removed from whatever donations and statements the CEO makes.

CFA management, not a store manager.

 

[Exophase]

Today, people shame themselves in public, and then often think they should be immune from any consequences.

It's one thing to want full immunity from consequences, and another thing to think that being shunned and denied employment for life is disproportionate, especially for something that caused no one any real harm.

CFA management, not a store manager.

You may have to go all the way to the CEO himself to actually find a relevant party. I don't think he would have been up for an audience. His point was largely to make a statement to the company and to would be customers, not the worker.

If he left out that bit at the end directed to her personally would people be going much easier on him now?

 

[LTC8K6]

If he left out that bit at the end directed to her personally would people be going much easier on him now?

Not much easier. He comes across as a smug jackass.

The BTW I'm not gay part was pretty bad.

I wouldn't hire him.

 

[LTC8K6]

He's an adult. He knows the internet is forever.

I haven't checked, has he apologized to the cashier?

 

[Exophase]

I haven't checked, has he apologized to the cashier?

Yes, it's in the dailymail article linked in this thread. Somehow the embedded video is not making it easy to link to directly but here's the article in case you missed it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...deo-protesting-Chick-fil-left-unemployed.html

Also from the article:

Shown Smith's apology by an anchor on Fox News at the time, Elizabeth accepted it.

She said: 'I do forgive him. I think he realizes how bad it was to make that tape. 'I feel sorry for him and his family, and for everything that has happened to him since.'

Doesn't really sound like she's on board with his pariah status.

 

[werepossum]

So I guess that actual harm caused doesn't mean anything? Just your presumption that if he robbed someone it'd mean he was in a worse position...

What he did to this woman doesn't come close to the fear of holding someone up at gunpoint and the damage of taking their money.

People are saying he berated her... not really. This was a day dedicated to showing support for Chik-Fil-A and a lot of people were also coming in to protest them as a backlash, like those gay and lesbian protesters making out in front of customers. It looks to me like this guy just wanted to make some public statement against the company and choose a really poor way to do it, almost none of his rant was directed towards the woman except towards the end where he said he doesn't understand how she can work there and how she sleeps at night - but then he quickly said she seems like a good person, which is silly because he doesn't even know her, but probably something he said to back away from sounding like he was judging her personally.

What assets does he really have to fight for his beliefs exactly? What do you think he should have done with these untold millions I suppose you think he had?



Because I have some sympathy to his current situation and think people are overreacting you think the solution is for me to start a company and hire him?

That's fucking ridiculous dude. Putting outside the incredible impracticality of it all, that's basically some kind of weird form of affirmative action. I don't believe in throwing money and opportunity at someone just because they were wronged somehow. Nor do I think you need to be ready to completely dismantle your life to try to help someone because you have an opinion on the internet. I'm sure there's a lot of stuff you talk about being wrong with the world here that you do nothing to try changing...

Also please, spare us this "libs" stuff. Just because he was pushing a popular liberal cause doesn't mean that it's a liberal position to think people are treating him too harshly. Had someone gone to some receptionist at Mozilla and filmed themselves going off on a rant about how bad the company is for making Eich resign then got this sort of branding for life my response would have been exactly the same. This is what I was talking about earlier.. stop assuming everything is political. Please.

I specifically did not ask you to "start a company and hire him"; that would be ridiculous. However, you made it a point to bring up your sympathy for him and repeatedly defend him in a thread about another person supposedly made unemployable due to her own actions; why not at least buy his book? Surely that wouldn't "completely dismantle your life".

Dude didn't have to have "untold millions" to fight for his cause. As a CFO he's going to have some disposable income, as well as contacts. At the very, very least he could have made his case against Chik-Fil-A as a selfie and posted that instead of himself holding up everyone else in line while he harangued a low level employee for his own self-aggrandizement. No one would be firing him over that, surely.

 

[Hugo Drax]

But that means your employer is allowed to send pornographic material to you.

The book in question was a gift from the guys wife, Ellen Pao and his wife knew each other and they had some things in common.

the Vanity fair article has more details.

 

[PokerGuy]

It's good advice. The kind everyone should follow. And the kind that everyone fails to at some point.

Big difference between just losing your cool and saying/doing something stupid versus a deliberate act, thought out and acted out, then uploaded to the internet.

It's one thing to want full immunity from consequences, and another thing to think that being shunned and denied employment for life is disproportionate, especially for something that caused no one any real harm.

You seem to be confused about why the guy can't get hired anymore. Nobody has organized a group to hold protests outside the door of any potential employer, noone is trying to punish him by not hiring him. The reality is that he showed a tremendous lack of judgement, which resulted in a lot of negative publicity for himself and his employer. Very few (if any) companies are going to want to hire someone for any senior (leadership) position once they've shown such poor decision making skills. It wasn't a one time "I lost my cool" event -- that could be explained away much easier. The fact that it was thought out, acted out and uploaded reflects on his poor decision making and choices. That's why he's a pariah, not because of the damage he caused.

I wouldn't hire him.

... and apparently neither would anyone else.

 

[Spungo]

Im holding back my tears for this 1%. What ever will she do?

She's close to "dead broke" now that she only has several million dollars of assets!

 

[glenn1]

It's one thing to want full immunity from consequences, and another thing to think that being shunned and denied employment for life is disproportionate, especially for something that caused no one any real harm.

Good judgement is one of the most basic job skills there are, especially for those in the C-suite. This wasn't just one impulsive or ill-considered decision, it was a whole series of multiple deliberate bad choices strung together with a blinding lack of self-awareness. Would you ever trust someone who did the executive equivalent of someone yelling "Hey y'all, watch this!" and then proceeded to film it, put it up on social media, and expected people to praise him for it? This guy could be exhibit A as an example for how to define "reputation risk."

 

[BoberFett]

Bring back public shaming

Bring it back? "Liberals" have been using shaming as a weapon for quite some time, where have you been?

 

[PokerGuy]

She's close to "dead broke" now that she only has several million dollars of assets!

lol @ hillary definition

 

[marincounty]

What the heck will she do for a living now? She lost the lawsuit. Now her name is plastered all over the media. No one is going to hire her, she would be considered a toxic employee and a huge liability.

So how the heck will she earn a living?

She's a failed executive, she can run for president just like Carly Fiorina or George W Bush.

 

[werepossum]

She's a failed executive, she can run for president just like Carly Fiorina or George W Bush.

Yeah, you think you're funny til it happens.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Bring it back? "Liberals" have been using shaming as a weapon for quite some time, where have you been?

Where have I been? Watching American "Conservatives" using shaming to a far greater degree that those "Liberals" you're calling out.

 

[BoberFett]

Where have I been? Watching American "Conservatives" using shaming to a far greater degree that those "Liberals" you're calling out.

Really? Every time a "liberal" calls someone a bigot or racist or whatever other politically charged word they can come up with for the person they disagree with, that's a shaming tactic, designed to end all discussion by deeming the "conservative" unworthy of any further consideration.

"Liberals" are just as hateful and terrible as "conservatives", and if you don't believe that then you're just a bigot and I have nothing further to say to you.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Really? Every time a "liberal" calls someone a bigot or racist or whatever other politically charged word they can come up with for the person they disagree with, that's a shaming tactic, designed to end all discussion by deeming the "conservative" unworthy of any further consideration.

"Liberals" are just as hateful and terrible as "conservatives", and if you don't believe that then you're just a bigot and I have nothing further to say to you.

<applause> You have a real talent for this. <applause>

 

[BoberFett]

<applause> You have a real talent for this. <applause>

A talent for calling out stupid bullshit spouted by idiots? Yes, I believe I do.

 

[werepossum]

A talent for calling out stupid bullshit spouted by idiots? Yes, I believe I do.

You do. You really, really do. Please continue.

 

[Blue_Max]

Wow this jury got it all wrong. I am wondering if it was all men. I guess they think letters asking for sexual favors is OK.

THIS is why my first thought was, "She'll be fine - a feminist organization will snap her up to lead the chorus of wailing tears."

THIS article was an interesting read.

 

[Exophase]

THIS is why my first thought was, "She'll be fine - a feminist organization will snap her up to lead the chorus of wailing tears."

THIS article was an interesting read.

From the article:

But if we expect to make real progress, we’d better hope for more effective activists than Pao could ever be.

That seems to be a running theme among social activists today. People these days are so quick to shower attention and solidarity towards whoever claims the most victimhood, that the legitimate value of their insight and efforts doesn't even register. The best voices (both specifically for their cause and for society at large) are being passed over because the people most focused on enacting positive change aren't as compelling as the people who are symbols for suffering.

As an aside, something I find strange is how much, for example in the comments of the article, people are talking about software development and "brogrammer culture" in direct relation to Pao's case. When the VC world has very little to do with the end workers of the software industry. Even if they both have a big presence in Silicon Valley. Maybe VC is not a very good environment for women, maybe that's not really fair and could stand to change.. but it's also probably not a very good environment for almost as many men. Especially the programmer men who are blamed for everything. This cavalcade of introverts and mechanical thinkers wouldn't last a minute in VC.

Speaking of which, it's kind of fascinating how there was a lot of focus (for instance, ala Occupy and what have you) on how VC firms, hedge fund managers, etc attracted a lot of greedy and bad people. But that's died down and the message is now about how to get more women, and by extension, more people doing this.

 

[Victorian Gray]

A talent for calling out stupid bullshit spouted by idiots? Yes, I believe I do.

It's almost impossible to read that without bursting into uncontrollable laughter.