Embedded PC's

[mooseracing]

I'm looking to buy one maybe a couple to do a little playing on. I was looking at a minimum of 300mhz cpu and want dual LAN ports or single lan and PCI slot.

I've been browsing google, but it jsut seems to take me to manufactures website with no prices or purchase options. I am only searching for embedded systems as I'm not sure what else to search for.

i've browsed ebay too without much luck.

I was looking at single board computers but I don't want to have to hook the boards all to another board.

Any help?

 

[widefault]

www.bwi.com
www.globalamericaninc.com
www.neutronexpress.com

I've bought multiple times from BWI, very good service. They've also managed to get me some items so quickly that they came with a burned CD-R with the manual and drivers.

Expect to pay at least $300 for a basic board. I've seen much better ebay deals, but searching is indeed a pain. Best to search for "single board computer" or by manufacturer names(Advantech, Commell, Kontron, iBase, etc).

 

[mooseracing]

Also from some searching here it looks like a mini itx might suit my needs too.

 

[frostedflakes]

I always thought these eBox systems looked pretty good, and they aren't too expensive either. Some are cheap as $100, but they use 200MHz or 300MHz SoC's, I doubt you could run much on them; you'd definitely have to load it up with a light Linux distro such as Puppy or DSL, I doubt it could handle a normal XP install (maybe nLite XP, though). The 3800 and 4800 series start at about $225 and $300, respectively, and have faster Via CPUs that should work well for Windows and most basic tasks. Dual-LAN option is available on some of the boxes, or you could get one with mini-PCI and add a laptop LAN card.

http://www.wdlsystems.com/ebox/ebox.shtml

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
Also from some searching here it looks like a mini itx might suit my needs too.

Intel Desktop Board D201GLY2 $66

 

[mooseracing]

Ok instead of starting a new thread, i just changed the topic a little.

I've been looking at these and I am trying to stay low power draw right now, I think my first one is going to be a more dedicated high traffic router with a linux base.

I see alot of people complain about the Via CPU's being overstated and slow, is there a comparison of speeds or conversion somewhere to where they match up against others?

Are the intel setups really low power? I find it hard to believe the PIII and Intel core duo's draw little. Although a Core 2 duo setup would be nice, but way overkill.

And lastly we have AMD, who I support whole heartedly. I doubt I would use their desktop low wattage cpu's unless I Found a cheap setup. I am mainly looking at their geode stuff. How do their speeds compare to regular desktops CPU's.

I guess I don't think i should need any thing over 500mhz, 512mb ram, dual lan or lan/pci slot capabilities. but that is in desktop speak and I don't know how they compare, that is my biggest problem.

 

[widefault]

The C3 Via chips are about the same performance as a PIII at 2/3 the clock speed. So the 1.5GHz C3 is at best equivalent to a PIII 1GHz. The C7 is better, but still slower than the same clock speed PIII.

The board Zap linked above is very lower power, about 25 watts average. The Via boards don't do much better, not when you factor in PSU efficiencies and other components. Core Duo is very comparable to Core 2 Duo in power usage, and don't overlook the mobile Celerons.

Beware of some boards that are marked AMD Geode. Only the Geode NX has any kind of performance since it is based on the Athlon XP. The Geode GX and LX are offshots of the ancient Cyrix MediaGX CPU.

What do you want to spend? Without knowing that it's hard to give a suggestion.

 

[stevf]

the via c3/c7 chips are just fine speed-wise - the comparison to a PIII is pretty close. What kills them speed-wise is the FPU. If you doing things that dont use the FPU then they are great chips. If you use programs that use the FPU heavily they are not the chip for you. I have a mini-itx board that I have for several years now - it has an 800MHz c3. At the time I got it I also ran an 1.6GHz duron chip. For browsing, etc you couldnt tell any real difference. I was also running seti then and the duron would finish work units on average 6 times faster.

For low power file server, fire wall, router etc (if that is your use) then the mini-itx or nano-itx boards may be just what you are looking for. Though I would get the c7 processor over the c3 just for the random number generators(they call it padlock I believe)

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: widefault
The board Zap linked above is very lower power, about 25 watts average. The Via boards don't do much better, not when you factor in PSU efficiencies and other components. Core Duo is very comparable to Core 2 Duo in power usage, and don't overlook the mobile Celerons..

I can't justify a Intel Core xxx cpu right now, besides the fact that it would be cool to run it in a little box.

I found a few benchmark comparisons, and the intel seemed around 25 watts like you stated and the via around 20-24 depending on the board.


Glad you said something about the AMD ones as I was getting rather tempted by one but it was the older series.

I need to do some more ebay'in and search.

I don't really want to spend alot, like more than $150 right now. But I can go without a case for my testing. So I need to pick a psu, board with cpu, and mem. small budget eh.

 

[mooseracing]

Ok, looks like these are in my price range...just none have dual LAN. So i might have to add a pci LAN, which would probably help perf under heavy loads.

EPIA Mini-ITX EX15000G Motherboard - kind of at the max -150

Intel D201GLY2 1.2GHz Mini ITX - found one for 80 bucks with a 1Gb ram.

Via VB7001G Mini ITX Motherboard w/1.5GHz C7 CPU - 100 bucks

I am having a hard time not biting on the Intel with ram already.

edit: i like the jetway boards as you can add the expansion modules to, which could help with a low profile.....choices

edit again: widefault I saw you had one for sale when I was searching the boards. How did it perform wattage wise, and how did the dual on board LAN function. Did it have good throughput?

 

[DaveSimmons]

FYI, Intel's board was reviewed at www.SilentPCReview.com and I think it had some power draw info.

 

[stevf]

if money is more important than size - check this out - also via - this is kind of a follow on to the mini,nano, pico series - apparently they are going to go to a few different size boards - this board is a bit bigger than mini-itx, about flex-atx size or a little smaller than micro-itx. This is also the board used in that gOS comp you can get for $199 at walmart

http://www.clubit.com/product_...il.cfm?itemno=A4842001

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: widefault
The board Zap linked above is very lower power, about 25 watts average.

The Celeron CPU is rated for 19W TDP.

The VIA C7 has various TDP, with overlapping speeds. This means VIA sells, let's say, a 1.2GHz C7 processor with two different TDP ratings of 7W and 12W. So, if you absolutely need a low TDP, then you can get a few different C7 setups at around half of the Celeron TDP. Unfortunately you're also looking at maybe around half the performance per MHz. The 1.2GHz Celeron is based on the desktop 64 bit Core chip and outperforms the older Yonah based 1.33GHz 32 bit Celeron on the non "2" model. So, performance or TDP, your choice. BTW, there's a 2GHz C7 chip that is rated 20W.

Of course these ratings are for the CPU and not the whole board.

Another way to save power is to use a PicoPSU as those are more efficient that other PSUs.

 

[Fox5]

What do you plan on using the embedded PC for? We may be able to better tell you what would suit your needs if we knew.

Heck, depending on what you're doing a router that can be hacked to run dd-wrt (or one of the other linux router distributions) might be sufficient with some custom linux scripts.

 

[mooseracing]

well I bit the bullet and bought one.

I picked out the Jetway J7F4K1G5D w/VIA C7-D 1.5GHz and 1GB of mem with it for a grand total of 153 shipped to my door. More than I wanted to spend but I didn't want to buy this and then have it limited. The good side is it has Dual GB LAN ports so i don't need a daughterboard.

I'm planning on buying a pico-psu when my next check comes, so for temp measures i will use a full size one. I also want to do falsh or Disk on Module setup to elimnate a HD, but agian I wait for another check. I almost got the fanless 1.2 setup but I couldn't. i think this is going ot be my test router for a bit, handle heavy file loads, website traffic, and maybe some p2p stuff.


I really want to get one of the C2D setups but they are pricey. Maybe the next one can be that or by then it will be time for a new tower.

 

[imported_Uber]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: mooseracing
Also from some searching here it looks like a mini itx might suit my needs too.

Intel Desktop Board D201GLY2 $66

Ah crap, now I want one.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Uber

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: mooseracing
Also from some searching here it looks like a mini itx might suit my needs too.

Intel Desktop Board D201GLY2 $66

Ah crap, now I want one.

Newegg now has them.

 

[imported_Uber]

Good to know, but there is a difference between wanting one and actually having money. I'm in High School. I can barely afford to buy lunch.

 

[KlokWyze]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: mooseracing
Also from some searching here it looks like a mini itx might suit my needs too.

Intel Desktop Board D201GLY2 $66

Those are some badass little boards. If I built an ITX setup this would be my board of choice by a mile. The price compared to everything else is complete pwnage.

 

[mooseracing]

the only problem I have with that intel board is the HS beaing so tall and teh fact that it doesn't have dual lan setup. Otherwise its definately worth the dollars.

But after looking at core 2 duo mini itx stuff, i started looking for opteron setups.....suprisingly haven't found much.

 

[mooseracing]

I got it and started working on a small case for it. No pics but right now it has 3 sides and a bottom. I went with lexan, but was getting frustrated on cutting the back out for the i/o stuff. So the case is on the shelf.

Right now smoothwall can't see the onboard nics. both are 8110 realteks and it seems to be a common issue alot of people have had. Also my wireless keyboard locks up when I use my KVM to switch to the new toy, although it works fine with any other PC. Hopefully I can find a spare laying around.

 

[thorin]

My fav little Ma&Pa shop just started listing the d201gly2 (finally) so I'm now seriously looking at casing options etc.... Looking forward to seeing what you come up with mooose

BWT I've seen a number of posts on other forums etc suggesting that the tall heatsink is easily replaceable.

 

[mooseracing]

So I finally got a chance to work on this again. I haven't see a workaround for Smoothwall so I went with IPCop. It worked great and is working great. Right now I just have a few ports fowarded and Snort running. I like seeing the details it gives for things like this scan: MS-SQL Worm propagation attempt Priority:2Type: Misc Attack.

I also installed FAH on it just to see what it could do. I want to get a CF hard drive for it yet, mini PS, and a wireless PCI card so everthing will all be in one bad ass box.

Still haven't decided on a case. I started with a Plexi glass one, but didn't finish it. I don't like any of the other min itx cases as they hold drives and other acc's and I don't want that, i want minimals. So i'm looking at find maybe an old router case or even a new case somewhere and modding it for my needs. I would probably add a window to whatever case I get since I like looking at this little thing.

 

[thorin]

I decided to go with a Casetronic C138, I'm still waiting for my board to come in but I'll try to update this thread and post some relevant bits when I start building.

 

[mooseracing]

I posted in the Case's and cooling fourm looking for choices, but ended up getting a big case. A 1U rackmount for dual mini ITX boards with hot swap drives.....Now I am looking for another mini itx board for web/file server. http://i11.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/90/dd/9c97_1.JPG http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/8e/bf/0d56_1.JPG

About the same price as buying two seperate cases and also comes with PS's and the hot swap drives. All added +'s