[engadget] Origin PC drops AMD graphics options due to feedback, support woes

[krumme]

Yeah but there isn't any proof of what you, and especially Krumme, are accusing Nvidia of. There could have been other reasons for this to happen, including what you think it might be. Bad relations between AMD and OriginPC? Maybe an email conversation went south from either side? Or, just maybe, it's exactly what OriginPC said it was. But that isn't possible in some people's minds and it's the reason for these ridiculous threads.

So suddenly a email went south from either side? And then everyone and his stupid journalist brother got pr mail from origin? Because of 5000 units. Lol. Nice story.

This keeping asking for proof. Like there could ever be a smoking gun. Ofcource its not working like that. But tons of pr that is extremely out of proportions to units is some of the best proof i have ever seen of such activity.

I use the word bribing. I know some could even call it relation building. I dont care because i dont share their values in life. I prefer to call things what they are. Its a clear case of bribing. Stop.

 

[Arkadrel]

Im with Krumme on this one, call a turd a turd.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,.... its probably a duck.

This come off looking like nvidia payed a company to not sell amd cards, and its most likely the case.

Even if people here dont give much credit to semiaccurate, the fact of the matter is they have a article claiming they have "proof" in the form of multiple sources saying its a "duck".

 

[5150Joker]

So suddenly a email went south from either side? And then everyone and his stupid journalist brother got pr mail from origin? Because of 5000 units. Lol. Nice story.

This keeping asking for proof. Like there could ever be a smoking gun. Ofcource its not working like that. But tons of pr that is extremely out of proportions to units is some of the best proof i have ever seen of such activity.

I use the word bribing. I know some could even call it relation building. I dont care because i dont share their values in life. I prefer to call things what they are. Its a clear case of bribing. Stop.

Conspiracy theories don't really help the discourse of this thread. If you have solid evidence, then present it otherwise this discussion continues to go in circles.

 

[SolMiester]

"Paltry 5000 units" with 1000-3000$ profit per unit. If you look at BOM and their advertised prices, it becomes evident that their profit levels are sky-high even if they don't sell a million units. Origin is not Dell, and they do not pretend to be Dell. Origin doesn't want to sell you a 500$ laptop. They want to sell you a 5000$ surround gaming PC with water cooling. With regard to their profit margins, those margins would make even Apple blush.

So are you going to acknowledge the fact that NV is just better at the niche Origin is targeting? That is, multi GPU surround setups which are water cooled?Don't worry, I know you won't. "AMD will fix it" is what you'll tell me, right? "A fix is coming". Right? Perhaps AMD will get their software on NV's level for surround gaming. I truly hope they do. As I mentioned earlier I want the 290X to be all that and a slice of bread.

This^^...If supporting mGPUs from AMD requires more support from Origin, its no surprise they are dropping AMD...Hello!...it sure is a good laugh reading some of the conspiracy comments though....

 

[Abwx]

Anyway nvidia first reaction to the coming ultra competitive
concurrence has been to push the extreme panic button ,
generaly such irrational moves produce the contrary effect
of what was expected , and in this case it s only an unwillfull
aknowledgment by nvidia that they feel that their offering
not only hold no more any superiority but is also outdated
direct x wise , wich is kind ironic since Amd not only support
the last dx iteration but will also use an intermediary api.

 

[Mastercommander]

You made a switch? You mean you went from Nvidia which already offered frame pacing and Lightboost to AMD. So, that wasn't a reason to switch if they both offered it. Why then did you really switch? Just curious cause you made little sense in your comment.

Your limp wristed manner does you no favors. Why wouldn't I switch, from a throttled memory bus to something which I would actually make a small profit on, and I'm not talking about bitcoin/litecoin nonsense

In alluding to the over the top AMD fanboyism, I see this forum has no shortage of Nvidia frothers

Warning issued for personal attack.
-- stahlhart

 

[blackened23]

I don't buy pre-built's anymore, but let me remind that Origin builds water cooled multi GPU systems for SURROUND GAMING. If I were to buy such a pre-built system, I would be THANKING Origin from saving from the clipping/dropped frames nonsense of crossfire eyefinity.

I don't expect any of the conspiracy theorists to acknowledge this, though.

That said, I'll also re-iterate that I want AMD to fix these matters, i'm not hating. AMD NEEDS TO BE ON NVIDIA'S LEVEL in terms of software. The fact of the matter is, THEY AREN'T. I would like them to be. I want the 290X to bring the pain to nvidia. I want the 290X to be the card that brings AMD back to dGPU market share parity, JUST LIKE the 5870 did. AMD has the potential to do this. But - they need to put an extreme focused effort into their software. It goes without saying that software quality is extremely important as hardware quality, and AMD *has* made significant strides in the past year. I applaud that fact. But they are still not on NV's level, and they are still lacking in terms of Eyefinity CF. Which, oddly enough, is the type of system that Origin builds.

If this were Dell dropping AMD, I would think something is up. But Origin builds systems precisely for the extreme guys that use 3+ screens and multiple GPUs. Therefore it is certainly plausible that Origin switched merely because of AMD's issues with surround gaming + CF. AMD is taking baby steps towards making their software better. For the 20th time, I know i'm repeating myself, I think that's great - BUT - I personally think they should quicken that pace - do whatever it takes to get there because software and value added features are 90% of the reason that gamers love nvidia. IMHO. AMD needs to devote less money to gaming bundles and put half of that money towards software development. That software development pays off. Just see what Nvidia has done with their brand strength for proof of precisely that - I want AMD to be on the same level. If they are, everyone wins. If they match NV in terms of software, we won't see these silly conspiracy theory threads. We won't need to play the pity/victim card for AMD. For this to happen: AMD needs to devote more $$$ to their software development. Their hardware is great! The software needs to match that pace.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I don't buy pre-built's anymore, but let me remind that Origin builds water cooled multi GPU systems for SURROUND GAMING. If I were to buy such a pre-built system, I would be THANKING Origin from saving from the clipping/dropped frames nonsense of crossfire eyefinity.

I don't expect any of the conspiracy theorists to acknowledge this, though.

That said, I'll also re-iterate that I want AMD to fix these matters, i'm not hating. AMD NEEDS TO BE ON NVIDIA'S LEVEL in terms of software. The fact of the matter is, THEY AREN'T. I would like them to be. I want the 290X to bring the pain to nvidia. I want the 290X to be the card that brings AMD back to dGPU market share parity, JUST LIKE the 5870 did. AMD has the potential to do this. But - they need to put an extreme focused effort into their software. It goes without saying that software quality is extremely important as hardware quality, and AMD *has* made significant strides in the past year. I applaud that fact. But they are still not on NV's level, and they are still lacking in terms of Eyefinity CF. Which, oddly enough, is the type of system that Origin builds.

If this were Dell dropping AMD, I would think something is up. But Origin builds systems precisely for the extreme guys that use 3+ screens and multiple GPUs. Therefore it is certainly plausible that Origin switched merely because of AMD's issues with surround gaming + CF. AMD is taking baby steps towards making their software better. I personally think they should quicken that pace - do whatever it takes to get there because software and value added features are 90% of the reason that gamers love nvidia. IMHO.

Honestly Origin builds PC for guys with more money than sense and little to no knowledge of how to build a PC or set up a multi monitor system.

 

[Grooveriding]

Safe bet is Origin received some deal or special terms from nvidia for this and in return had to do their best to make a stink about it. Why else contact everyone and their mother over it.

Nvidia always fights dirty and does the viral thing. AMD has new cards coming, is being promoted as the brand of Battlefield 4 and has Mantle. Nvidia is going to have to try something to stay relevant for that title. BF4 is a bad one to lose benchmarks in because of it being the game driving many gamers to upgrade over. R9 290X and Mantle are probably going to lock Battlefield 4 performance down for AMD.

Even the name, battle box, seems like an attempt to ride the BF4 coat tails. Seems silly to me personally and something that will only appeal to those sparse 5000 noobs who buy one of those overpriced systems from them. The 4K thing is also far fetched in my experience. I returned the Asus 4K I bought because Titan SLI was not enough power for it in BF3 and a third card would not have changed it, settings needed to be dialed too far back. We need 20nm flagship cards in 2 Or 3 way and then it might be enjoyably doable at high settings.

I am sure we will see more random nonsense from nvidia about obscure system builders, battle boxes(lol) and vapourware cards before the new AMD cards launch. Anyone who saw the endless 'it's coming' and fud being spread around when nvidia botched their 40nm launch and spent six months hyping up what turned out to be the steaming gtx 480 turd should know what to expect.

 

[blackened23]

Honestly Origin builds PC for guys with more money than sense and little to no knowledge of how to build a PC or set up a multi monitor system.

For some of their buyers? Sure. Some of them are just career oriented guys who don't want to devote their own time making a custom water loop. And some of them have plenty of disposable income and don't want to spend an entire day doing a system build. Have you ever made a custom loop? It's really annoying and time consuming. I like water cooling but I don't do it these days, frankly it's a huge time sink.

I think my points were valid, though. I like AMD's hardware - I still recommend the 300$ 7970s because it's a killer deal. But their software isn't on NV's level yet especially with regard to eyefinity CF - and those are the types of systems that Origin sells. I truly hope AMD makes a STRONG effort to bring their software on parity with NV - then we all win. Like I said (to repeat myself times infinity) I want the 290X to be THE card that brings the competition to NV.

 

[Keysplayr]

So suddenly a email went south from either side? And then everyone and his stupid journalist brother got pr mail from origin? Because of 5000 units. Lol. Nice story.

This keeping asking for proof. Like there could ever be a smoking gun. Ofcource its not working like that. But tons of pr that is extremely out of proportions to units is some of the best proof i have ever seen of such activity.

I use the word bribing. I know some could even call it relation building. I dont care because i dont share their values in life. I prefer to call things what they are. Its a clear case of bribing. Stop.

You remember when I suspected there were AMD viral marketers here? How everyone came down on me (and several others) asking for a smoking gun or go home?

Welcome to my world Krumme. Enjoy.

 

[3DVagabond]

It is what it is. I'm sure Origin PC is getting compensation for being nVidia exclusive. That's not unusual in any industry. Who cares?

The only problem I have is instead of simply going on with their business they instead badmouth the competition (Yes, since they are now nVidia exclusive badmouthing AMD is badmouthing the competition). This type of behavior is unprofessional to the extreme. We have products that we carry from suppliers to the exclusion of other brands. Both our suppliers and our management make it clear that they don't want us to take the low road and disparage competitor's products to help sell our own. If our product is truly better we can sell it by touting it's features, benefits, quality, etc...

 

[BoFox]

^^ Agreed.

And too bad Origin, missing out on R9 290X that promises excellent Crossfire performance with frame pacing and 4K / Eyefinity solutions. Clearly, they're a bit upset.. in a way (or afraid they will be), hence giving in to the temptation to preemptively bad-mouth! :biggrin:

 

[Rvenger]

^^ Agreed.

And too bad Origin, missing out on R9 290X that promises excellent Crossfire performance with frame pacing and 4K / Eyefinity solutions. Clearly, they're a bit upset.. in a way (or afraid they will be), hence giving in to the temptation to preemptively bad-mouth! :biggrin:

If it turns out to be the next 9700 Pro they would wish they were onboard. Oh well.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well the proof is the paltry 5000 units compared to all the pr. You never comes closer to a fact than that. Seldom is bribing so obvious as that. What proof do you want? A picture of a suspecious man with $ in his hand showing the deed happening? Lol.

I know there can be many words for the relationship. And of course its not like comming with cash in hour hand or a transaction like that. Bribing practcally never is. It can have many shapes and often involves several companies between the parties. Its that complicated. Everyone who have worked with bribing problems on a coorporate level. Eg. From entering a market in say the middleeast knows that its shape can be very varried and hidden.
Make no mistake everyone involved knows there is something wrong 99% of the time and the last percent is handle by management. On this level you call it what it is. Bribing.

In this specific case its like there wasnt even made steps to hide it and that it was just rushed.

So you think if you went to court or an attorney and said "x company only sell a small amount of widget y, and got a disproportionate amount of publicity from switching to supplier z" you think you would have a case? Somehow without any kind of documentation or testimony of what actually happened, I think you would be laughed out of court.

You are entitled to your opinion, I wont disagree with that. It may even be correct. But it still in only an opinion, no matter how logical it appears to you or how strongly you feel it. There has been no proof presented.

 

[3DVagabond]

Well the proof is the paltry 5000 units compared to all the pr. You never comes closer to a fact than that. Seldom is bribing so obvious as that. What proof do you want? A picture of a suspecious man with $ in his hand showing the deed happening? Lol.

I know there can be many words for the relationship. And of course its not like comming with cash in hour hand or a transaction like that. Bribing practcally never is. It can have many shapes and often involves several companies between the parties. Its that complicated. Everyone who have worked with bribing problems on a coorporate level. Eg. From entering a market in say the middleeast knows that its shape can be very varried and hidden.
Make no mistake everyone involved knows there is something wrong 99% of the time and the last percent is handle by management. On this level you call it what it is. Bribing.

In this specific case its like there wasnt even made steps to hide it and that it was just rushed.

You know, it doesn't have to be that clandestine. It could very well be that they decided for the amount sold it wasn't worth carrying the additional skus. nVidia might have offered them a deal for being nVidia exclusive. That type of thing goes on all of the time. Possibly, because of the small numbers they buy they had to go through a distributor for their card purchases, and if they were nVidia exclusive they might be able to push enough numbers to go AIB direct and save money. Lots of possibilities that aren't "shady".

What's shady is the announcement and the timing. Again, very very unprofessional in the way they are handling it by throwing AMD under the bus like they have. Also wreaks when AMD is about to release a product that nVidia doesn't have a response to. Just like last year when nVidia couldn't compete on performance and we had the "slower but smoother campaign". That's what makes this smell of marketing hype on nVidia's part. That and Semi Accurate's statement that they were told by someone in the boutique PC industry that they too were approached by nVidia to do the same.

In the end it's a small company. It's not like Walmart is saying they are dropping AMD because of a lack of quality and/or support.

 

[3DVagabond]

I agree, AMD can't let things like this slide, unless they want to be sidelined in the desktop gpu space as they are in the cpu space.

I have no idea how you are equating this and AMD's CPU business.

 

[poohbear]

I thought this thread was about EA origin. Just realized it was about a PC manufacturer. Im sure AMD is all butt hurt that a company most have never heard of will no longer use their GPU's. I never understood people who pay someone to build an enthusiast level machine anyway. Why is this news?

This.

Why the misleading title? obviously alot more of us are familiar wth EA's Origin than the obscure unheard of PC manufacturer Origin!

 

[Pariah]

If it turns out to be the next 9700 Pro they would wish they were onboard. Oh well.

There's enough information floating around the web to know it won't be. That said, I don't think you understand how all this works. AMD does not sell cards directly to Origin PC. Whoever Origin's supplier is will sell both brands. If you buy your video cards from Newegg and swear off Nvidia cards and buy only AMD cards, Newegg doesn't care, they're making money off you either way. If you later change your mind, Newegg isn't going refuse to sell you an Nvidia card because you badmouthed Nvidia previously.

 

[krumme]

So you think if you went to court or an attorney and said "x company only sell a small amount of widget y, and got a disproportionate amount of publicity from switching to supplier z" you think you would have a case? Somehow without any kind of documentation or testimony of what actually happened, I think you would be laughed out of court.

You are entitled to your opinion, I wont disagree with that. It may even be correct. But it still in only an opinion, no matter how logical it appears to you or how strongly you feel it. There has been no proof presented.

That is just a strawman. This is not the court, and i dont need evidense that works in court. Everyday life is full of judgement that we all do.

I think we all need to stand up for your values. It utterly naive - because of all the bs pr - imho, to think NV didnt play a big part in this. Its better proof statistical than what works in most courts.

The problem is, a lot dont like to look at this reality. Where did you all lean to be so nice when someone f....d you? - dont.

NV was bribing. And its not okey. Its that simple.

 

[ShintaiDK]

NV was bribing. And its not okey. Its that simple.

So its not ok for AMD to sponsor DICE with 8 million$ to make BF4 work better on AMD. Just like its not ok for nVidia to sonsor Ubisoft with 5 million$. Both are bribes to get an advantage. Or is that different in your world?

I am simply curious on where people draw the lines.

 

[krumme]

You remember when I suspected there were AMD viral marketers here? How everyone came down on me (and several others) asking for a smoking gun or go home?

Welcome to my world Krumme. Enjoy.

Yes i remembered that Keys. And it was not okey imho. I sometimes notice someone i assume is viral marketeers. But probably they are hired indirectly. NV, AMD, whoever, will not do something that could get caught. I stopped years ago trying to hunt them down.

Personally i have very strict values about even similar activities, and tend to be quite "protestantic" so to speak.

Take eg. your own role. There is a lot positive in it - like there is from much marketing. Its involving customer and the community developing the products. Giving information that heps people choose. The down side is ofcourse there is a backside to it. The entire system tends to be skewed and onesided. It cant be different.
As the pc world article mentions from one of the systembuilders NV marketing is good. Its qualified sales and support.

But besides the good marketing of NV there is a bad one. The lying "this is fermi". The bribing (origin drops amd). And its a ugly side.

What people should do is separate the good from the bad side. And say no to lying and bribing.

Its the same Anand does when Samsung cheats with benchmarks. Its was a good step that needed much support from us.

But the problem with NV marketing is, its apparantly difficult to separate the good from the bad side. The good side clouds the bad side. But it needs to be done.

As visionary and innovative as JHH is, i think much of the bad ethics from NV marketing derives from his behavior and temper. My experience with such guys is, only one thing helps and that is direct feedback. Therefore:

Nvidia must stop bribing.

 

[3DVagabond]

So its not ok for AMD to sponsor DICE with 8 million$ to make BF4 work better on AMD. Just like its not ok for nVidia to sonsor Ubisoft with 5 million$. Both are bribes to get an advantage. Or is that different in your world?

Neither one are running around saying they aren't sponsored by one and the other just sucks. One case is business as usual. The other is deceitful marketing.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Neither one are running around saying they aren't sponsored by one and the other just sucks. One case is business as usual. The other is deceitful marketing.

So cheating is business as usual. Ok, just want to see where people stand. I am quite aware of the low morality in the segment. But that people also actively support it is another thing.

 

[3DVagabond]

So cheating is business as usual. Ok, just want to see where people stand. I am quite aware of the low morality in the segment. But that people also actively support it is another thing.

LOL Mantle is cheating? Sure it is.