[engadget] Origin PC drops AMD graphics options due to feedback, support woes

[Abwx]

You got it wrong. Nv paid origin to lie.
Its as simple as Samsung cheating in benchmarks.

Why is it difficult to accept? 50 pr messages for paltry 5000 units. Lol.

Nv is clearly desperate choosing such a small player. It looks like they are in a hurry. What is it next time? More pr messages than units? Lol.

One has nothing to gain from telling something that is not mandatory....

So if such a saying occur then it means that it brings a gain
otherwise there would be no reason risking to be in bad terms
with a company with useless declarations , it s contrary
to all basic corporate behaviours unless one has suicidal tendencies...or has been paid to make such unprofessional pr..

 

[frozentundra123456]

You got it wrong. Nv paid origin to lie.
Its as simple as Samsung cheating in benchmarks.

Why is it difficult to accept? 50 pr messages for paltry 5000 units. Lol.

Nv is clearly desperate choosing such a small player. It looks like they are in a hurry. What is it next time? More pr messages than units? Lol.

I dont really know what nVidia did, and I am no fan of nVidia. In fact I have an AMD card.

But your statement "Nvidia paid origin to lie" is an unqualified statement of guilt with no proof. If you want to state that as your opinion, fine, it may even be correct. But if you are going to make a statement that one company basically bribed another, I would like to see your proof.

I guess if anyone does something that can be construed as negative towards AMD they are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[sushiwarrior]

For those people claiming, "oh well Origin got paid off", Dell did the same thing with their Alienware M18 system. They used to offer Crossfire in previous systems but because it created so many issues (and in turn support costs for Dell), they dropped AMD and went with NVIDIA exclusively. AMD fans need to admit that Crossfire has a lot of problems that OEMs and end users aren't willing to deal with. I ran into a ton of problems with 5870M/6970M/6990M/7970M Crossfire when I had it and was relieved when Dell gave AMD the boot. They were also cool enough to send me a pair of 580M SLI in exchange for my 6990M Crossfire system. And if anyone here is a frequent visitor to NBR or other notebook forums, you'd know Crossfire always presented a myriad of headaches and never quite worked right. On the other hand, NVIDIA's SLi works out of the box and does it exceedingly well.

Here is an example of a problem a LOT of Crossfire owners ran into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVvCtnNpGhE Then there were bugs in Skyrim that were never addressed (or took longer than the lifespan of the system), poor Crossfire support for newly released games, problems hibernating or putting a computer to sleep, infamous Crossfire frame latency problems with stuttering and on and on.

Oh and here's one more video I made with 7970M Crossfire and M18x-R1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeLnTfZypKQ&feature=share&list=UUUpOq8L2czZB9N0kVEXdh5w

Yes, Dell did stop offering an AMD crossfire solution. What didn't they do? Make a press release, send it to major tech news outlets and say "GUYZ WE DUN SELL AMD ANYMOAR BC NVIDIUR IS NUMBAH OEN AND AMD BAD".

Sending a PRESS RELEASE about something like THAT is just incredibly shady. What reason do they have to publicly renounce AMD? It makes no sense. They should just stop offering it, maybe put a message on their own website/blog (to explain why), and that's it. Not send a press release to Engadget immediately after launching an Nvidia sponsored project.

 

[blackened23]

I've said it before and i'll say it again. Maybe NV played a role, maybe they didn't, but let's end the speculative nonsense. Let's look at objective facts: Origin is a boutique systems builder that specializes in water cooled multi GPU systems designed for surround gaming - being that they're geared toward surround gaming, it is no surprise that NV would be better in that respect. NV is better in that respect. So there are valid reasons as to why Origin could have done this, period.

This all goes back to AMD's software quality. Their hardware is great! I have no issues with AMD hardware, I bought the 7970CF at launch and greatly enjoyed it. I thought then and still think that the 7970 is a good piece of hardware (especially since it's 300$ now). But, speaking objectively, their software quality is not up to NV's standards yet. And i'm afraid that is especially critical for multi GPU surround gaming - it is true that AMD has made strides, significant strides, even - but they're still to date not as good as NV in terms of software. Most users have to use 3rd party software utilities to get the most out of their AMD multi GPU setups (at least, this was the case throughout 2012). This should not be the case.

I want the 290X to change this. I want it to light a competitive fire under nvidia, and I *want* AMD to get the software right this time. If they can do that, AMD can regain dGPU market share parity with NV as they did during the 5870 days. But the salient point here is, that Origin may have had valid reasons to stop using AMD because their systems are specially designed for multi GPU surround gaming. NV is just better for that niche. Period. I want the 290X to change this. I very badly want the 290X to change the software situation with AMD in terms of multi screen gaming.

 

[Destiny]

And everyone talking about bribing or "paid off" - almost EVERY company (including large tech e-commerce retailers) and system builders like Origin PC ASKS for "MDF (Marketing Development Fund)" from a brand or product manufacturer to help "market and sell their products" throught the retailers' selling channels. Obviously whom ever gives more "MDF" will be given priority... I would not be surprised that there is a quantity clause that gives bonus spiffs, which is why Origin "suspended AMD cards", to meet those spiffs... EVERY company does this, including Nvidia, AMD, Samsung, T-mobile, Sprint, etc.. to increase sales/revenue... Just Origin PC made a big deal about it to get free press, forum chatter, etc.

 

[5150Joker]

Yes, Dell did stop offering an AMD crossfire solution. What didn't they do? Make a press release, send it to major tech news outlets and say "GUYZ WE DUN SELL AMD ANYMOAR BC NVIDIUR IS NUMBAH OEN AND AMD BAD".

Sending a PRESS RELEASE about something like THAT is just incredibly shady. What reason do they have to publicly renounce AMD? It makes no sense. They should just stop offering it, maybe put a message on their own website/blog (to explain why), and that's it. Not send a press release to Engadget immediately after launching an Nvidia sponsored project.

Because any amount of publicity that exposes their brand to media outlets is good. They didn't need an NVIDIA kick back to do this--it's just good business tactics.

 

[Abwx]

Because any amount of publicity that exposes their brand to media outlets is good. They didn't need an NVIDIA kick back to do this--it's just good business tactics.

Mac donald endorsed coca cola , so it would be good
practice for them to publicly claim that pepsi taste bad...

What people can invent to defend the indefensible
is just crazy....

 

[Erenhardt]

Because any amount of publicity that exposes their brand to media outlets is good. They didn't need an NVIDIA kick back to do this--it's just good business tactics.

How will they turn this around in just a 2 weeks? What if AMD will say "No" to them?

 

[sushiwarrior]

Because any amount of publicity that exposes their brand to media outlets is good. They didn't need an NVIDIA kick back to do this--it's just good business tactics.

Yes, excellent business tactics to say "Hey everyone, we're offering LESS selection! You should buy our limited systems instead of a competitor offering all brands equally!".

It's obvious Nvidia gave them a large incentive to do this. I hope Origin shrivels and dies, they threw their eggs all in one basket. It would be just desserts

 

[krumme]

I dont really know what nVidia did, and I am no fan of nVidia. In fact I have an AMD card.

But your statement "Nvidia paid origin to lie" is an unqualified statement of guilt with no proof. If you want to state that as your opinion, fine, it may even be correct. But if you are going to make a statement that one company basically bribed another, I would like to see your proof.

I guess if anyone does something that can be construed as negative towards AMD they are guilty until proven innocent.

Well the proof is the paltry 5000 units compared to all the pr. You never comes closer to a fact than that. Seldom is bribing so obvious as that. What proof do you want? A picture of a suspecious man with $ in his hand showing the deed happening? Lol.

I know there can be many words for the relationship. And of course its not like comming with cash in hour hand or a transaction like that. Bribing practcally never is. It can have many shapes and often involves several companies between the parties. Its that complicated. Everyone who have worked with bribing problems on a coorporate level. Eg. From entering a market in say the middleeast knows that its shape can be very varried and hidden.
Make no mistake everyone involved knows there is something wrong 99% of the time and the last percent is handle by management. On this level you call it what it is. Bribing.

In this specific case its like there wasnt even made steps to hide it and that it was just rushed.

 

[5150Joker]

How will they turn this around in just a 2 weeks? What if AMD will say "No" to them?

You're assuming Origin wants anything to do with AMD after this and its pretty obvious they don't, at least not in the short term. AMD won't deny them sales just because they put this PR out there, the world of business doesn't work on emotions. If that were the case, Samsung and Apple would have parted ways long ago.

Yes, excellent business tactics to say "Hey everyone, we're offering LESS selection! You should buy our limited systems instead of a competitor offering all brands equally!".

It's obvious Nvidia gave them a large incentive to do this. I hope Origin shrivels and dies, they threw their eggs all in one basket. It would be just desserts

You seem so angry over their decision...

 

[blackened23]

Well the proof is the paltry 5000 units compared to all the pr. You never comes closer to a fact than that. Seldom is bribing so obvious as that. What proof do you want? A picture of a suspecious man with $ in his hand showing the deed happening? Lol.

I know there can be many words for the relationship. And of course its not like comming with cash in hour hand. Bribing practcally never is. It can have many shapes and often involves several companies between the parties. Its that complicated. Everyone who have worked with bribing problems on a coorporate level. Eg. From entering a market in say the middleeast knows that its shape can be very varried and hidden.
Make no mistake everyone involved knows there is something wrong 99% of the time and the last percent is handle by management. On this level you call it what it is. Bribing.

In this specific case its like there wasnt even made steps to hide it and that it was just rushed.

"Paltry 5000 units" with 1000-3000$ profit per unit. If you look at BOM and their advertised prices, it becomes evident that their profit levels are sky-high even if they don't sell a million units. Origin is not Dell, and they do not pretend to be Dell. Origin doesn't want to sell you a 500$ laptop. They want to sell you a 5000$ surround gaming PC with water cooling. With regard to their profit margins, those margins would make even Apple blush.

So are you going to acknowledge the fact that NV is just better at the niche Origin is targeting? That is, multi GPU surround setups which are water cooled?Don't worry, I know you won't. "AMD will fix it" is what you'll tell me, right? "A fix is coming". Right? Perhaps AMD will get their software on NV's level for surround gaming. I truly hope they do. As I mentioned earlier I want the 290X to be all that and a slice of bread.

 

[Abwx]

How will they turn this around in just a 2 weeks? What if AMD will say "No" to them?

They buy their cards from the same manufacturers than
people in this forum so they would have no trouble
buying back AMD products.

 

[Erenhardt]

You're assuming Origin wants anything to do with AMD after this and its pretty obvious they don't, at least not in the short term. AMD won't deny them sales just because they put this PR out there, the world of business doesn't work on emotions. If that were the case, Samsung and Apple would have parted ways long ago.

Ohhh yes... AMD needs Origin badly, each and every one of those 5k sales. They will not get the best deal with amd soon. Always good for a laugh, thanks!

 

[krumme]

And everyone talking about bribing or "paid off" - almost EVERY company (including large tech e-commerce retailers) and system builders like Origin PC ASKS for "MDF (Marketing Development Fund)" from a brand or product manufacturer to help "market and sell their products" throught the retailers' selling channels. Obviously whom ever gives more "MDF" will be given priority... I would not be surprised that there is a quantity clause that gives bonus spiffs, which is why Origin "suspended AMD cards", to meet those spiffs... EVERY company does this, including Nvidia, AMD, Samsung, T-mobile, Sprint, etc.. to increase sales/revenue... Just Origin PC made a big deal about it to get free press, forum chatter, etc.

Nonsense. You change subject.
Only a few companies pay to get their competitors dirty by using false pr.
Nv do.
Thats what this is about. What you describe is another matter.

 

[5150Joker]

Ohhh yes... AMD needs Origin badly, each and every one of those 5k sales. They will not get the best deal with amd soon. Always good for a laugh, thanks!

AMD needs all the sales and positive PR it can get based on it being in the RED almost all the time. :sneaky:

 

[monstercameron]

AMD needs all the sales and positive PR it can get based on it being in the RED almost all the time. :sneaky:

I agree, AMD can't let things like this slide, unless they want to be sidelined in the desktop gpu space as they are in the cpu space.

 

[sushiwarrior]

You're assuming Origin wants anything to do with AMD after this and its pretty obvious they don't, at least not in the short term. AMD won't deny them sales just because they put this PR out there, the world of business doesn't work on emotions. If that were the case, Samsung and Apple would have parted ways long ago.



You seem so angry over their decision...

I'm not angry at all! It's just the perfect kind of irony which I would like to see - they throw all their eggs in one basket, using "questionable" incentives to get short term profit, it would be my favourite kind of irony if they lost money in the long run due to their decision :thumbsup:

 

[Arkadrel]

I dont really know what nVidia did, and I am no fan of nVidia. In fact I have an AMD card.

But your statement "Nvidia paid origin to lie" is an unqualified statement of guilt with no proof. If you want to state that as your opinion, fine, it may even be correct. But if you are going to make a statement that one company basically bribed another, I would like to see your proof.

I guess if anyone does something that can be construed as negative towards AMD they are guilty until proven innocent.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/05/much-nvidia-pay-origin-pc-drop-amd/

So with this in mind SemiAccurate did some calling around and the answers probably won’t surprise you. Multiple sources all said the same thing, a certain Nvidia marketing person, they all called him Bryan for no particular reason, has been calling around to all the Tier 3++ gaming PC makers offering large dollops of funding to dump AMD GPUs or so the story goes.

....an unqualified statement of guilt with no proof.

 

[blackened23]

Are you aware of semiaccurates history? They are not a credible source. It is merely a pro AMD website and has always been such. I found their news of Apple now owning a fab to be particularly hilarious. (according to Charlie's, "secret sources".)

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm not angry at all! It's just the perfect kind of irony which I would like to see - they throw all their eggs in one basket, using "questionable" incentives to get short term profit, it would be my favourite kind of irony if they lost money in the long run due to their decision :thumbsup:

Wishing bad on a company? Sounds like anger to me.

 

[krumme]

"Paltry 5000 units" with 1000-3000$ profit per unit. If you look at BOM and their advertised prices, it becomes evident that their profit levels are sky-high even if they don't sell a million units. Origin is not Dell, and they do not pretend to be Dell. Origin doesn't want to sell you a 500$ laptop. They want to sell you a 5000$ surround gaming PC with water cooling. With regard to their profit margins, those margins would make even Apple blush.

So are you going to acknowledge the fact that NV is just better at the niche Origin is targeting? That is, multi GPU surround setups which are water cooled?Don't worry, I know you won't. "AMD will fix it" is what you'll tell me, right? "A fix is coming". Right? Perhaps AMD will get their software on NV's level for surround gaming. I truly hope they do. As I mentioned earlier I want the 290X to be all that and a slice of bread.

I dont care what gpu origin use. The profit you talk about is not going the nv or amd way. You are talking entire system and thats origin business.

Its still 5000 or so units gpu we are talking about and hardly anything that even warrents kickbacks worth mentioning. And never ever in history anything that generates a stream of pr. Period. Its that simple.

Its perfectly possible nv is better suited for the machines (albeit at at sudden and funny time). For multi gpu machnines thats probably perfectly sound decision.

But tons of pr more or less directly smearing another company, on the basis of such a utterly small number, is not.

Its just plain bribing. Dont call it otherwise because thats what it is.

 

[sushiwarrior]

Wishing bad on a company? Sounds like anger to me.

If AMD did anything similar I'd wish the same upon them. Or a company that sided with AMD. I always thought the same about XFX, I wished they kept selling Nvidia cards too. More choice is always better for me, the consumer. Companies which implement anti-consumer policies (ie. limiting product choice) deserve to suffer IMO.

 

[Keysplayr]

If AMD did anything similar I'd wish the same upon them. Or a company that sided with AMD. I always thought the same about XFX, I wished they kept selling Nvidia cards too. More choice is always better for me, the consumer. Companies which implement anti-consumer policies (ie. limiting product choice) deserve to suffer IMO.

Yeah but there isn't any proof of what you, and especially Krumme, are accusing Nvidia of. There could have been other reasons for this to happen, including what you think it might be. Bad relations between AMD and OriginPC? Maybe an email conversation went south from either side? Or, just maybe, it's exactly what OriginPC said it was. But that isn't possible in some people's minds and it's the reason for these ridiculous threads.

 

[Meekers]

Having experience with similar type deals in a different industry the most likely way this played out is that Origin wanted some kind of deal. Nvidia made them an offer which they then took to AMD and asked them to do something similar. AMD decided it was not worth it and this is the result.

I find it hard to believe that Nvidia specifically asked them to drop AMD. They may have hoped for that to be the outcome, but that is different than explicitly asking for it.