"engineering is a real major"

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Jehovah

I'd have to agree. Many of the execs of State Farm Corporate here have some kind of business degree to my understanding.

engineers work for State Farm?

Yeup. I'm talking about the national corporate HQ, not some dinky agency branch.

Uhm ... State Farm, the insurance company?? So you mean the IT staff, and maybe some in-house software development? You'd have to convince me that those are really engineering positions. Maybe some of the in-house development would qualify, if you consider "software engineers" to be "real engineers". (FWIW, I think some are, but not many).

For the record, I've never had a boss ... or bosses boss for that matter ... that didn't come out of a technical background. The CEO of our company has a technical PhD (and an MBA). The CEO of the previous company was a technical guy also.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Yeah, any non-technical disclipine are easy as hell. By non-technical i mean easy majors like liberal arts, business, sociology, etc. It's dumb to hear students from easy majors b!tch about their curriculum.

I don't know if its already been brought up or not, but as an engineer you will spend the rest of your career working for people with business, sociology and liberal arts degres

have fun!

-edit- oh, and also begging for raises from them.

Um...... read the post above you.

In my experience the post above mine is the exception and certainly NOT the rule.

15 years of reading the promotional and welcome hirings of anybody above "staff" level at 4 separate fortune 100 companies almost exclusively reads "hails from xyz with a BA in business or xyz with MBA in marketing"

so yes, more than likely you will be begging those guys for a raise/working for them.

You based your conclusion on promotional papers? *cough cough* Well.. how about this. As an engineer, I've mostly working for engineers and getting raises from them, so there's no business major in my past experience.

So to support your point, you need to find a business major who manages/supervises engineers.

*cough*cough*

ummmm.....you know promotional e-mails. Where the hiring VP says "I'm pleased to announce that joe has been promoted to director of engineering. He hails from BFU with an MBA in marketing."

As far as finding a business major who manages engineers that's honestly all I've ever seen. In fact many engineers go back to school to get their MBA because they have hit a ceiling and can no longer move up.

I know I have hit a ceiling with a BSEE and BSCS. I'll be getting my MBA from somewhere, just don't know where or how yet.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Yeah, any non-technical disclipine are easy as hell. By non-technical i mean easy majors like liberal arts, business, sociology, etc. It's dumb to hear students from easy majors b!tch about their curriculum.

I don't know if its already been brought up or not, but as an engineer you will spend the rest of your career working for people with business, sociology and liberal arts degres

have fun!

-edit- oh, and also begging for raises from them.

Um...... read the post above you.

In my experience the post above mine is the exception and certainly NOT the rule.

15 years of reading the promotional and welcome hirings of anybody above "staff" level at 4 separate fortune 100 companies almost exclusively reads "hails from xyz with a BA in business or xyz with MBA in marketing"

so yes, more than likely you will be begging those guys for a raise/working for them.

You based your conclusion on promotional papers? *cough cough* Well.. how about this. As an engineer, I've mostly working for engineers and getting raises from them, so there's no business major in my past experience.

So to support your point, you need to find a business major who manages/supervises engineers.

*cough*cough*

ummmm.....you know promotional e-mails. Where the hiring VP says "I'm pleased to announce that joe has been promoted to director of engineering. He hails from BFU with an MBA in marketing."

As far as finding a business major who manages engineers that's honestly all I've ever seen. In fact many engineers go back to school to get their MBA because they have hit a ceiling and can no longer move up.

I know I have hit a ceiling with a BSEE and BSCS. I'll be getting my MBA from somewhere, just don't know where or how yet.

Sorry... never seen a single one of those.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: spidey07
All I'm really saying is engineers typically don't move into management.

They simply don't have the skills, training or education to do so.

Sure it happens. But again in my experience in fortune 100 companies it is rare.

managers don't engineer. They manage.

Directors don't engineer, they direct.

And all of your classes will never teach you how to manage or how to direct.

Why do you think "dilbert" seems to be so dead on? Pointy haired boss isn't an engineer, he has a BA and as such learned budgeting, managing people and performance, etc.

And he does that so well also

I just looked down a fortune 100 list ... I only saw maybe 1/3rd that you would expect to have significant technical or engineering staff to begin with. Of those, I've known people at Boeing (#21), Lockheed (#48), Northrupp Grumman (#55) and Raytheon (#107) that have technical managers.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Jehovah

I'd have to agree. Many of the execs of State Farm Corporate here have some kind of business degree to my understanding.

engineers work for State Farm?

Yeup. I'm talking about the national corporate HQ, not some dinky agency branch.

Uhm ... State Farm, the insurance company?? So you mean the IT staff, and maybe some in-house software development? You'd have to convince me that those are really engineering positions. Maybe some of the in-house development would qualify, if you consider "software engineers" to be "real engineers". (FWIW, I think some are, but not many).

For the record, I've never had a boss ... or bosses boss for that matter ... that didn't come out of a technical background. The CEO of our company has a technical PhD (and an MBA). The CEO of the previous company was a technical guy also.

Yepyep - just for the record, the main guy I know at state farm, a associate vice president of the IT department, has a bachelor's in ACS . . . and got a Masters in Business Management.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Yepyep - just for the record, the main guy I know at state farm, a associate vice president of the IT department, has a bachelor's in ACS . . . and got a Masters in Business Management.

What's ACS?

IT is not engineering.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Jehovah

I'd have to agree. Many of the execs of State Farm Corporate here have some kind of business degree to my understanding.

engineers work for State Farm?

Yeup. I'm talking about the national corporate HQ, not some dinky agency branch.

Uhm ... State Farm, the insurance company?? So you mean the IT staff, and maybe some in-house software development? You'd have to convince me that those are really engineering positions. Maybe some of the in-house development would qualify, if you consider "software engineers" to be "real engineers". (FWIW, I think some are, but not many).

For the record, I've never had a boss ... or bosses boss for that matter ... that didn't come out of a technical background. The CEO of our company has a technical PhD (and an MBA). The CEO of the previous company was a technical guy also.

Yepyep - just for the record, the main guy I know at state farm, a associate vice president of the IT department, has a bachelor's in ACS . . . and got a Masters in Business Management.

What's ACS?
And yea, what COW said ... IT dept. != engineering, even if they call themselves engineers.

 

[Schadenfreude]

ACS = Applied Computer Science

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: BlamoHammer
I'll start laughing when all of the engineering majors graduate with their impressive technical knowledge and then they are told what to do by a business major who is their boss.

usually the boss that tells the engineering majors what to do is or was an engineer

that is quite true...but only for tech companies. right now i work in the IT dept of a heathcare company. both my bosses are non technical. they are there to manage and make sure everything goes smoothly and on schedule. they leave all the technical stuff to us. then again i heard rumors that some of the developers make more than the bosses.

<--- comp engg major (graduated '03)

 

[mitaiwan82]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
An business or econ major isn't something to snicker at

lol...econ major at my alma mater can graduate with only 60 hours of econ classes

<-- recent EE grad

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: DAGTA
Anyone that thinks all majors are equal in difficulty has either never been to college or has taken an easy major. There is nothing wrong with having an easy major IF IT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IN LIFE, but it's foolish to think there aren't majors that are harder than others.

Agreed - but I still refuse to even consider to think that ALL liberal arts majors are easy. Art is easy. Hell, math is easy for me. Philosophy, however, is a nutbuster-of a major. I'd think Philosophy is one of the hardest classes to learn.

I have to disagree. I think a significant number of people would find Philosophy fine when compared to many other majors.

Most people are confused by logic.

i took a "intro to logic" course in rutgers. was the only C i got in college! that logic just doesnt follow engineering logic

 

[SirWoj]

I attended an engineering school as a liberal arts major. Early on I realized that an engineer with social skills and respect for others will go very far in life. An engineer with no respect for non enginners and no social skills will probably be stuck crunching numbers on the bottom. Do yourself a favor and respect the people who will be making the laws, providing the services and creating the society around you that demands your engineering skills. All academic majors are tough at a good school, and an arrogant engineer is always a bore.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: DAGTA
Anyone that thinks all majors are equal in difficulty has either never been to college or has taken an easy major. There is nothing wrong with having an easy major IF IT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IN LIFE, but it's foolish to think there aren't majors that are harder than others.

Agreed - but I still refuse to even consider to think that ALL liberal arts majors are easy. Art is easy. Hell, math is easy for me. Philosophy, however, is a nutbuster-of a major. I'd think Philosophy is one of the hardest classes to learn.

I dunno about you... but Art is pretty hard for me....

I guess it's up to the eye of the beholder, I suppose. Art is one of the easiest subjects for me. And as for math; you learn the equation, memorize when to use it, and you just plug in the numbers. How hard is that? I didn't have to take any math classes for my gen ed. because I scored ridiculously high on my ACT.

This is a perfect example, IMO - some people have problems in some subject areas, others in others - I just don't like it when people write their opinions, which are mere opinions and nothing more, as fact.

Just a little evaluation:

You have two cars moving towards each other starting 140 miles apart, one at 10mph and the other at 25mph. A bee that starts on 10mph car flies at 40mph to the other car. When he reaches it, he turns around and flies back to the first car.. back.. and forth and back and forth until the cars meet. How far did he go?

But I agree... easy and hard are subjective words and so the statement "blah is HARD" or "blah is EASY" can never be a fact and only opinions.

160miles

 

[Kibbo]

Before you say that the liberal arts are easy, go read Joyce. Or Nietzsche. Get back to me.

These two scared the *&amp;%^%$ out of me.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Before you say that the liberal arts are easy, go read Joyce. Or Nietzsche. Get back to me.

These two scared the *&amp;%^%$ out of me.

:thumbsup:

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Tuxdave

Just a little evaluation:

You have two cars moving towards each other starting 140 miles apart, one at 10mph and the other at 25mph. A bee that starts on 10mph car flies at 40mph to the other car. When he reaches it, he turns around and flies back to the first car.. back.. and forth and back and forth until the cars meet. How far did he go?

But I agree... easy and hard are subjective words and so the statement "blah is HARD" or "blah is EASY" can never be a fact and only opinions.

160miles

You solved a high school level math problem from a Mathleague competition.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: SirWoj
I attended an engineering school as a liberal arts major. Early on I realized that an engineer with social skills and respect for others will go very far in life. An engineer with no respect for non enginners and no social skills will probably be stuck crunching numbers on the bottom. Do yourself a favor and respect the people who will be making the laws, providing the services and creating the society around you that demands your engineering skills. All academic majors are tough at a good school, and an arrogant engineer is always a bore.

But what fun would that be? How boring it would be if no one was allowed to say:

Computer Science are Electrical Engineer dropouts
Math and Physics are Engineer dropouts
Engineers are idiots (from Physics majors)
All you do in accounting is add numbers

Tis all fun!

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Before you say that the liberal arts are easy, go read Joyce. Or Nietzsche. Get back to me.

These two scared the *&amp;%^%$ out of me.

Been there, done that. Granted, it wasn't in an academic environment. It was difficult reading. Have a look at Mathematical Techniques in Multisensor Data Fusion sometime.

 

[SirWoj]

Hey, I never said you can't diss other majors! I just get pissed at the kids who think they are doing God's work designing dams and carpet fibers.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Tuxdave

Just a little evaluation:

You have two cars moving towards each other starting 140 miles apart, one at 10mph and the other at 25mph. A bee that starts on 10mph car flies at 40mph to the other car. When he reaches it, he turns around and flies back to the first car.. back.. and forth and back and forth until the cars meet. How far did he go?

But I agree... easy and hard are subjective words and so the statement "blah is HARD" or "blah is EASY" can never be a fact and only opinions.

160miles

You solved a high school level math problem from a Mathleague competition.

where's my milk biaaatch!?! atleast offer me some :beer: to go along with that

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Tuxdave

Just a little evaluation:

You have two cars moving towards each other starting 140 miles apart, one at 10mph and the other at 25mph. A bee that starts on 10mph car flies at 40mph to the other car. When he reaches it, he turns around and flies back to the first car.. back.. and forth and back and forth until the cars meet. How far did he go?

But I agree... easy and hard are subjective words and so the statement "blah is HARD" or "blah is EASY" can never be a fact and only opinions.

160miles

You solved a high school level math problem from a Mathleague competition.

where's my milk biaaatch!?! atleast offer me some :beer: to go along with that

Sorry... no beer, only :wine:

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Before you say that the liberal arts are easy, go read Joyce. Or Nietzsche. Get back to me.

These two scared the *&amp;%^%$ out of me.

Been there, done that. Granted, it wasn't in an academic environment. It was difficult reading. Have a look at Mathematical Techniques in Multisensor Data Fusion sometime.

Sounds like a fun book to read!

 

[glareman]

When did differential equations (esp time variant) become an exact science? I seem to remember solving many by iteration, and having many multiple solutions come up.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: glareman
When did differential equations (esp time variant) become an exact science? I seem to remember solving many by iteration, and having many multiple solutions come up.

Differential equations are an exact science. It's just that only some of them we know how to solve exactly.

 

[bcterps]

Engineering is a joke, you're just too stupid.