Engineers are not cool

[Rainsford]

In my experience, most people aren't cut out to be engineers. You have one group that just doesn't get it at all. Those are the people who make the engineering jokes, call us dorks, nerds, whatever. It's just because they don't have the right kind of brain to understand it. It's not an insult, people all think differently, but for some reason a lot of people feel defensive about not understanding engineering.

Then there is the second group of people, who might like solving problems, but can't deal with the "mundane" issues because they can't see the bigger picture. Writing the system to control the radios on the space shuttle is not especially exciting, until you think about how you're part of the effort to take a man made object and launch it into outer space with people inside.

If you can't get excited about that because you think writing software is boring, or you'd rather be managing people, I can't help you. And if you feel engineers are too cocky, perhaps you should think about what we do. I'm cocky because I'm good at what I do, and the majority of the population can't do it. I see nothing wrong with a little well deserved confidence in what you do, especially when without your profession, we'd all still be living in caves.

 

[Wonderful Pork]

Originally posted by: Ranger X
So I'm not the only one who thinks engineering students are elitist a-holes?

Want to know what a typical engineer is like? I work them everyday.
A typical engineer ...

1. Doesn't know how to dress himself.
2. Anywhere from slightly overweight to severely overweight.
3. Lacks hygiene.
4. Will never admit he/she is wrong.
5. Will make himself/herself sound more intelligent and useful than he/she really is.
6. Lacks social skills -- hence the reason why so many are old and not married.
7. Will flirt with anything without a penis.
8. Will carry around this aura of desperation. #8 is especially evident during #7.

Are there exceptions to the rule? Always.

1. Doesn?t matter how we dress. I don't think the o-scope or spectrum analyzer can see. You are judged more on your capabilities than your style.

2,3,4,5. not limited to engineers, you can apply this anywhere. Heck, look around a mall, they can?t ALL be engineers can they?

6. 99% of my coworkers (over the age of 25) are married and most have kids. Heck 3 people in my group are getting married in the next 2 months.

7. Look around any bar

8. Look around any bar around last call

There are stereotypes for engineers, just as there are for management, marketing, lawyers, etc.

I'm an engineer, got my BSEE and work at a big company doing cool stuff.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Ranger X
So I'm not the only one who thinks engineering students are elitist a-holes?

Want to know what a typical engineer is like? I work them everyday.
A typical engineer ...

1. Doesn't know how to dress himself.
2. Anywhere from slightly overweight to severely overweight.
3. Lacks hygiene.
4. Will never admit he/she is wrong.
5. Will make himself/herself sound more intelligent and useful than he/she really is.
6. Lacks social skills -- hence the reason why so many are old and not married.
7. Will flirt with anything without a penis.
8. Will carry around this aura of desperation. #8 is especially evident during #7.

Are there exceptions to the rule? Always.

While I think the stereotype isn't true anymore, and mostly spread by people who call a repairman to plug in their coffee maker D), I recently saw a pretty funny quote on that. It's from the director of the National Security Agency, home to perhaps some of the best engineers anywhere...

"We don't employ them for their social skills or how they dress. We employ them because they are the best at what they do."

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
In my experience, most people aren't cut out to be engineers. You have one group that just doesn't get it at all. Those are the people who make the engineering jokes, call us dorks, nerds, whatever. It's just because they don't have the right kind of brain to understand it. It's not an insult, people all think differently, but for some reason a lot of people feel defensive about not understanding engineering.

Then there is the second group of people, who might like solving problems, but can't deal with the "mundane" issues because they can't see the bigger picture. Writing the system to control the radios on the space shuttle is not especially exciting, until you think about how you're part of the effort to take a man made object and launch it into outer space with people inside.

I think that's a big part of it. People go into engineering because they want to build the next Saturn V/space shuttle/Hoover Dam/etc. But where you start, and often stay is the more mundane pieces of these things. At the top of the food chain where they are actually designing a new Saturn V/space shuttle/Hoover Dam/etc. are a very few people at the top of their profession, often near the end of a long career. They paint in broad strokes, and send the details off to be worked by the more junior folks.

If you can't get excited about that because you think writing software is boring, or you'd rather be managing people, I can't help you. And if you feel engineers are too cocky, perhaps you should think about what we do. I'm cocky because I'm good at what I do, and the majority of the population can't do it. I see nothing wrong with a little well deserved confidence in what you do, especially when without your profession, we'd all still be living in caves.

:thumbsup:

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
And if you feel engineers are too cocky, perhaps you should think about what we do. I'm cocky because I'm good at what I do, and the majority of the population can't do it. I see nothing wrong with a little well deserved confidence in what you do, especially when without your profession, we'd all still be living in caves.

This part ruins your post. You almost broke your arm patting yourself on the back. You are not in a position to judge yourself, other people judge you. You can judge others. But you can't look at yourself and claim that you're good at what you do.

Yes, there are smart engineers out there, but the majority of them are not as bright as they think they are. A REAL engineer is very mechanically inclined and can visualize things inside his head. I've seen mechanical engineers that can't even fix the derailleur on a 10-speed. You don't need to be a bike mechanic to figure that one out, you just need some mechanical inclination.

I think it comes down to the fact that you either have it or you don't. Some people will never make a good engineer, no matter how hard they try. Even if they're the nerdy type who watches star trek and plays Dungeons and Dragons all day, that doesn't make them a good engineer. In fact, I'd say those kind of people are the *worst* types of engineers because they're missing something upstairs. They weren't the smart kids, they were the pathetic/geeky/Napoleon Dynamite kind. The tinkerers/lego players were the smart kind, and they make good engineers.

 

[91TTZ]

BTW, try reading Slashdot.

That site is filled with *wannabe* engineers. They may actually have engineering degrees but from what I've seen, that place is a breeding ground for the lame D&D playing/Star Trek watching/Macintosh using/Napoleon Dynamite geek type who don't really have much brains. They're the type that give real engineers a bad name.

When a topic comes up, I see a dozen of them claiming how hard something is and how it can't be done. A real engineer doesn't have such a defeatist attitude- they find ways that something CAN be done.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Rainsford
And if you feel engineers are too cocky, perhaps you should think about what we do. I'm cocky because I'm good at what I do, and the majority of the population can't do it. I see nothing wrong with a little well deserved confidence in what you do, especially when without your profession, we'd all still be living in caves.

This part ruins your post. You almost broke your arm patting yourself on the back. You are not in a position to judge yourself, other people judge you. You can judge others. But you can't look at yourself and claim that you're good at what you do.

LMAO - this from the king of patting himself on the back ... err, rather Huge Brain
I am in a position to judge myself, and so is Rainsford. You do good things, other people take notice, they give you awards/promotions/choice assignments, colleagues that you respect consult with you, etc.. You take notice of that and think "Gee, I must be good at what I do!"

Yes, there are smart engineers out there, but the majority of them are not as bright as they think they are. A REAL engineer is very mechanically inclined and can visualize things inside his head. I've seen mechanical engineers that can't even fix the derailleur on a 10-speed. You don't need to be a bike mechanic to figure that one out, you just need some mechanical inclination.

So, an electronics engineer that can build a CPU needs to have an intuitive feel for gears and levers? There's alot more to engineering then that.

But the visualization thing is a good description for how alot of people problem solve. I solve more problems that way, staring at the ceiling, eating lunch, on the commute home, laying awake at night, etc, then I do anywhere else. When I'm in the office and actually look busy, I'm just implementing/testing/filling in the details of what I scribbled on a bar napkin the night before .

I think it comes down to the fact that you either have it or you don't. Some people will never make a good engineer, no matter how hard they try. Even if they're the nerdy type who watches star trek and plays Dungeons and Dragons all day, that doesn't make them a good engineer. In fact, I'd say those kind of people are the *worst* types of engineers because they're missing something upstairs. They weren't the smart kids, they were the pathetic/geeky/Napoleon Dynamite kind. The tinkerers/lego players were the smart kind, and they make good engineers.

 

[Cooler]

This is why im a CS major.

 

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by: ducci
Engineering students are, in fact, elitist assholes. I would know as I am one of them. It's mainly out of jealousy seeing all of the liberal arts majors take 10 hours of classes a semester and party all the time. This is understandable. And yes, I am speaking for all engineering students. They are all like this one way or another.

Wow, that explains a lot.

 

[Ranger X]

What? You guys don't work with these types of engineers?

I wouldn't exactly say engineers are like any others in other professions. Engineers tend to work primarily with other men and are often asked to work overtime. This leaves them with little or no time to go out or meet new people. C'mon guys, you have to admit engineering is a sausage fest!

We often have women from other companies visiting our facility and you can't possibly tell me that these women will get the reaction that they do at engineering companies. One guy, and I quote, said "She's a gift from heaven". I saw her and I was baffled because I would probably give her no higher than a 5 (out of 10).

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: AtlantaBob

Originally posted by: loki8481

Engineering students are, in fact, elitist assholes.

:thumbsup:

I always hated having to walk through that section of the building when I was on my way to advanced bio classes that I was taking for fun and entertainment.

Indeed.

Loki, somehow I get the feeling that you were a humanities/lib arts person? Or would I be confusing you with Descarts? The two of you sharing that avatar is confusing sometimes.

yeah, I dual-majored in English Lit / Sociology.

I knew this one really great bio professor, though, who let me audit a couple of the advanced courses he taught (300+) just because I thought they were insanely interesting. thus my assosiation with the science and engineering department at my college

what kind of jobs do people with english degrees get? genuinely curious

as an undergrad, I was hoping for a job in publishing.

when that fell through (re: couldn't land an internship with a major house), I got a job in marketing. that lasted about 6 months until I got bored, and then I landed a job in IT as a data center engineer

I'm probably going to grad school next year for technical writing.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Armitage
I know very few engineers that fit this stereotype - as kranky says, no more then the general population. Where this stereotype does seem to be over-represented in my experience is in IT

Bullsh!t.

 

[tw1164]

Originally posted by: noob in a box
This man speaks the truth. engineering(most types) is harder and more work than any other major most places i've seen, including premed. engineers are overworked and underpaid/under appreciated in society. that's because they do most of the work that drives the economy behind the scenes and are responsible for the amazing technology and lifestile americans have today. still, non-engineers don't give a crap.

oh yeah, we are eletist, and with good reason

I thought truck drivers did that.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: ducci
I'll be an EE senior this year, I've gone through some internships, been exposed to the field, and have come to the disillusioning conclusion that engineers are not cool.

As a kid who loved breaking things to see how they work, or playing with legos, or exceling in math and science, people always said things like, "Oh, you were born to be an engineer." Oh, you like messing with new gadgets? You must want to be an engineer.

Growing up, you get this vision of an engineer being this glamourous proffession where you solve all the world's problems and design fancy new gadgets. It's totally not like that and it's dissapointing.

Engineering students are, in fact, elitist assholes. I would know as I am one of them. It's mainly out of jealousy seeing all of the liberal arts majors take 10 hours of classes a semester and party all the time. This is understandable. And yes, I am speaking for all engineering students. They are all like this one way or another.

The fact of the matter is, engineering isn't glamourous, it isn't spectacular, and it isn't as high-paying as many people believe. Management gets paid far more than engineers. Granted, a bunch of management were at one point engineers, but they typically have an MBA, plus it's slightly disheartening that this is what people want to work up to.

I write this because I've noticed a great deal of engineers on this board, both students and professionals, and they always have some smug remark to say when it comes to what they're studying or what they do.

And to clarify, I still relatively enjoy what I do (and I do it well), so the "you shouldn't be an engineer" garbage isn't valid. It's just that what I am currently doing, and what I have seen others do is not the same as what I envisioned when I decided to become an engineer.

Maybe it's not only engineering. Is this the same with other proffessions as well? I'd like to know.

engineers are definitely anal, but i find most of them likeable. my brother is an engineer, and is far from an elitist asshole.

maybe things won't be as bad for you when you land a fulltime job out of school.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

engineers are definitely anal, but i find most of them likeable. my brother is an engineer, and is far from an elitist asshole.

Conversely, I'm an elitist asshole, yet I'm not an engineer.

 

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: moshquerade

engineers are definitely anal, but i find most of them likeable. my brother is an engineer, and is far from an elitist asshole.

Conversely, I'm an elitist asshole, yet I'm not an engineer.

Man, you haven't been around for too long, and you are quite an elitist, but you always have something useful to say. :beer:

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: moshquerade

engineers are definitely anal, but i find most of them likeable. my brother is an engineer, and is far from an elitist asshole.

Conversely, I'm an elitist asshole, yet I'm not an engineer.

touche

 

[SaturnX]

It really depends, I mean I'm in Engineering right now, as is my gf and I don't consider myself better than anyone else, or being an elitist asshole, I may have some opinions about my friends in liberal arts but its all in good fun, but at the end of the day, I'm not complaining because I chose to do this.

Sure there are those that just spoil the name for everyone by being elitist pricks, but that happens in every social circle, can't get away from it.

Although I can easily see where the attitude comes from, hell, during Frosh Week, the Dean of Engineering puts the notion that "you're in the best engineering school in Canada" during all his talks with the Frosh, and that already just sets them down the wrong path.

--Mark

 

[Parkre]

I am an mechanical engineer for a major company. I like my job. I haven't used one bit of info from college yet. I work in the day to day operations and talk to other engineers who specialize in their department. I also talk to the mechanics, planning, inventory, etc. When I started here, someone told me it more social engineering than anything. I do little more than make the hard decisions (if i make the wrong decision, people WILL die), and lots of revisions for all the manuels. Everyone in my department are social, where other 'specific' engineers are not nearly as social. They can't communicate their ideas across well. That's where we come in.

There are engineers out there who can calculate problems, yet have NO idea how a air pump works (We were seniors working on a project, and he had the 3.9 gpa)

I was a tinker/lego man myself. And I believe what it boils down to is your experience you have, your social skills (BIG part), and what department you end up working in.

ps. I appreciate trucks wholeheartly, they are the ones who send me my computer part

 

[newParadigm]

Guys.....One answer. Cryptology. Go to school and get near perfect grades, and the NSA will be begging you to work for them.

~new

 

[Special K]

This is one thing that has really started to bother me since senior year of college. I graduated last May with a BSEE. All of my friends are either premed, prelaw, or business, and all of them just kept going on and on about much money they will be making. They aren't doing it to try and mock me or my choice of a major, but it really gets to me. Two of my good friends are going into orthodontics. I asked them why they chose their field and all they could do is go on and on about how much money you make for how few hours you work. I thought I chose EE because I liked to design electronics. Mabye I should've taken a more practical approach - find the job that pays the most for the least amount of hours. I know I could've handled the premed/predental workload as an undergrad, I just didn't go that route because staring in peoples mouths all day sounded pretty boring to me. The same goes for law, it just sounded really boring. I know people who majored in sociology, english, and other liberal arts majors who are all going to law school and claim they will be making $200k+ as soon as they come out. The same goes for the premeds. I am going to grad school this fall to get my MSEE then I'll probably go out and get a job, hopefully in VLSI design. I have a very bitter outlook on the future based on all the salary figures my friends kept throwing around all year, but I'll wait until I've been in my field for awhile before I pass a final judgement.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Special K
This is one thing that has really started to bother me since senior year of college. I graduated last May with a BSEE. All of my friends are either premed, prelaw, or business, and all of them just kept going on and on about much money they will be making. They aren't doing it to try and mock me or my choice of a major, but it really gets to me. Two of my good friends are going into orthodontics. I asked them why they chose their field and all they could do is go on and on about how much money you make for how few hours you work. I thought I chose EE because I liked to design electronics. Mabye I should've taken a more practical approach - find the job that pays the most for the least amount of hours. I know I could've handled the premed/predental workload as an undergrad, I just didn't go that route because staring in peoples mouths all day sounded pretty boring to me. The same goes for law, it just sounded really boring. I know people who majored in sociology, english, and other liberal arts majors who are all going to law school and claim they will be making $200k+ as soon as they come out. The same goes for the premeds. I am going to grad school this fall to get my MSEE then I'll probably go out and get a job, hopefully in VLSI design. I have a very bitter outlook on the future based on all the salary figures my friends kept throwing around all year, but I'll wait until I've been in my field for awhile before I pass a final judgement.

You've got to make the decision whether you want to do something you really like, and be reasonably well off, or do something you don't particularly like and be very well off. I personally am not motivated enough by money alone to spend a huge chunk of my life doing something I don't enjoy.

 

[JDCentral]

(background- I was originally a Math major, switched to Comp Engineering, switched to BioMedical Engineering, switched back to Comp Engineering with pre-med on the side... took back math, now have settled(?) on Comp. Engineering and Math majors.)

I'm an engineer.. .and I'm an elitest asshole.

Not towards other majors, in general, but just towards those people who go to college just to "go to college".
You know who I'm talking about - those people who just pick a major so they can say they got a degree.

I respect people who go into a degree/field that they enjoy and work hard at (enjoyment and working hard usually go hand-in-hand).

I am proud of my major... not to the point where I look down on others (except for poly-sci majors. Just because I know a lot of people who are poly-sci who've been kicked out of school b/c they're grades are sub-par. Sorry... you've got a bad rap). I know that I've written 25-page papers in 3 days (that happened last week... professor didn't get the assignment 'completely revised' until 3 days before it was due...), I know that I pull all-nighters on a semi-regular basis (not b/c I'm wasted).

I'm not really sure what else I want to say... "I'm an Engineer, dammit, and I work hard!!".

How would it be any different if I said "I'm a poly-sci major, dammit, and I work hard!!"?

And how do I know I work hard..?

non-engineers tell me so.

Engineers, however... seem to think I don't work hard enough