Engineers in non-engineering positions, higher pay? (Consulting, Finance, Management, Patent Law, etc)

[edmundoab]

makes me doubt I can stay in my line over a decade.
now that I have come out to the jobscene. Its just too technical and i'm limited to certain companies, not everyone needs an engineer.
But most companies may need a clerk (although the pay is lower)

In anycase, I took my gamble.. will see if I get hired in a month or two

 

[joecool]

hey, safeway, enlighten us, what does it take for an engineer to move into patent law?

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: tami

Originally posted by: cchen
50-60? Think 70-80

maybe with a masters degree, yes.

(for all other hopefuls: with a BS, you're looking at 60+ for entry-level positions at big firms like UBS, morgan stanley, etc -- if you get hired. the smaller firms don't pay as much.)

a bunch of my columbia classmates who got a BS out of college (or BA not from SEAS) started with 60k jobs in such companies. they got off nicely. i assume the starting salary may have gone up in the past two years, so maybe we're looking at something a tad higher.

Huh? I meant 70-80 hours a week, whereas he said 50-60 horus a week

 

[cchen]

Originally posted by: joecool
hey, safeway, enlighten us, what does it take for an engineer to move into patent law?

engineering undergrad / masters + law degree ---> if u wanna make the big bucks

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Safeway
Patent Law you dopes.

Are you currently practicing patent law or planning to enter it? I just finished my MSEE and I've been thinking about going to law school for patent law for quite a while.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Safeway
Patent Law you dopes.

Are you currently practicing patent law or planning to enter it? I just finished my MSEE and I've been thinking about going to law school for patent law for quite a while.

One of my best friends in law school passed the patent bar after his 2nd year. He was an EE undergad that interned at Phillips/Magnavox. We referred to him as the most employable man in law school. He spent his third year being flown to the West Coast, DC, Boston, Atlanta, etc to interview with major firms. Took a position with one of them making 2x as much as any of us, and recently started his own IP practice in Buckhead (Atlanta).

If you are looking for lucrative/job security, this is for you. He lived in a swanky penthouse apartment right out of school, in the same building as a professional baseball player and across the street from one of the top 5 NBA players. The hours are a b-tch though. He typically worked 30 days/10 hours per day in a 31 day month. Most people do it 2-3 years and burn out.

 

[Hector13]

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
i'm engineering and i keep hearing about all these easy jobs that pay way more than engineers ever get. why do doctors get so much? all the premeds at my school are tards and the engineers are the smart ones.
That and investment banking or management or finance...these are way easier, at least where I go, and it sems like they make more when they graduate

not sure where you heard this crap about these jobs being "much easier", but it's just that: crap. I graduated with a degree in engineering (from a very good engineering school) but went straight to wall st and have never regretted it.

I work about 60-70 hours per week (on average), but made into the 6 digits by my second year and my salary has just ballooned since then... something I couldn't have done (without being very lucky) in engineering.

As for the job being "easy"... yeah right. I use more linear math/statistics/programming here than I ever did in school. Granted that may be because of the specific are of finance I am in, but my friends in other areas of wall st are not sitting back and surfing the web 80% of the day (something my friends in engineering consulting do get to do occasionally).

 

[tami]

Originally posted by: cchen

Originally posted by: tami

Originally posted by: cchen
50-60? Think 70-80

maybe with a masters degree, yes.

(for all other hopefuls: with a BS, you're looking at 60+ for entry-level positions at big firms like UBS, morgan stanley, etc -- if you get hired. the smaller firms don't pay as much.)

a bunch of my columbia classmates who got a BS out of college (or BA not from SEAS) started with 60k jobs in such companies. they got off nicely. i assume the starting salary may have gone up in the past two years, so maybe we're looking at something a tad higher.

Huh? I meant 70-80 hours a week, whereas he said 50-60 horus a week

oops. then i misunderstood. there goes trying to surf ATOT from work... i need to read more closely.

forget what i said then. i was referring to starting salaries.

 

[tami]

Originally posted by: Safeway
Patent Law you dopes.

in what kind of capacity are you working in IP? are you a lawyer? are you working at a firm doing legal assistant type work? you may think that patent law pays well -- maybe it does for you -- but i recently worked in patent law myself and got paid horribly. i did trademark investigation research for a private firm hired by many huge companies that you probably ALL own products from.

it really depends what kind of field you're working in. my supervisors were stealing all the cash in my humblest and most respectful opinion, while workers like myself were often complaining about the hard work, tons of legal writing, and lousy pay. i'm glad i left, but i still hear complaints from the folks who still work there.

i'll add that i have a friend who graduated with top honors in three years in computer science at columbia university, then went straight to columbia law school and also did very well. he is working at the company he interned at as a student (during the summers) and his pay is quite good. however, do you really want to go to school for another three years? in the end, it pays off, but keep in mind that you definitely would be working hard both before and after you graduate.

 

[tami]

bump for safeway

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Safeway
Patent Law you dopes.

Are you currently practicing patent law or planning to enter it? I just finished my MSEE and I've been thinking about going to law school for patent law for quite a while.

One of my best friends in law school passed the patent bar after his 2nd year. He was an EE undergad that interned at Phillips/Magnavox. We referred to him as the most employable man in law school. He spent his third year being flown to the West Coast, DC, Boston, Atlanta, etc to interview with major firms. Took a position with one of them making 2x as much as any of us, and recently started his own IP practice in Buckhead (Atlanta).

If you are looking for lucrative/job security, this is for you. He lived in a swanky penthouse apartment right out of school, in the same building as a professional baseball player and across the street from one of the top 5 NBA players. The hours are a b-tch though. He typically worked 30 days/10 hours per day in a 31 day month. Most people do it 2-3 years and burn out.

Since you are all craving my reply, here it is ...

This too has been my experience. I have an internship lined up for this Winter break, with a $8,000 stipend. That is 1 month of work, $8,000. I have done 2 years of non-paid internships in the past with this company. They have told me that they want me to keep coming back, which is good. If you do the math, $8,000 * 12 = $96,000. This is prior to any law degree.

Several attorneys at this firm said that I would be looking at a $130k starting salary, or more in line with $150k. Patent attorneys are in high demand, as you guys said. My girlfriend is doing a Pharm.D./Ph.D. dual degree program, so if we stay together, which I am thinking we will, our combined out of college income will be close to $250k.

My engineering background is actually less common, it is architectural, structure, materials, civil engineeringesque. Thankfully, I have been able to find a patent and copyright niche pertaining to these categories. Also, I have interned with an Actuarial firm and managed network systems for about 7 or 8 years now (I started young). I do research for claims pertaining to internet, domains, etc.

I am not practicing, but I have several firms lined up. The firm I am currently interning with has one of the largest IP dealings of any firm here. Don't ask for the name, I can't say. :roll:

 

[tami]

ok, i'm not asking for a name. i do understand the need for confidentiality in these matters, but i was wondering what kind of capacity you had worked in.

so what kinds of tasks are you involved in, if you're allowed to say? are you drafting up papers, doing research, etc? or is it kind of like paralegal work? i'm just curious if you're working like a lawyer or not.

my experience as a private eye has seriously been a poor one, probably because the company i worked for more or less pocketed the money WE made. :| i looked into law firms but didn't find anything that paid well enough or that was hiring in the particular area of IP law... it's hard to find such positions, but when you hit a goldmine, it's good stuff.

 

[Safeway]

I would say that I am doing everything I can do, short of "attorney only" duties. Since I have not actually taken either BAR exams, I am limited somewhat. I am working under an attorney, and occassionally along side a partner.

I am assisting in everything you listed, drafting papers, researching, ... it is pretty much paid job training and job experience.

I have been lucky thus far. My girlfriend and I am looking to save close to 50% of our earnings post-graduation. At that rate, money will be piling up, and I too can act on my plans to setup my own IP oriented firm. With patents 4 years+ behind, and no salvation in sight, IP is where to be.

 

[tami]

that's great. you definitely scored. when your firm expands and you want growth in nyc, drop me a PM and i'll see what i can do for ya.

 

[Legend]

I'm only a co-op, but the company I work for pays just above average. But it's a fantastic place to work for. It is completely designed for engineers. Everyone gets a windowed office (the inside of each floor is a large lab, the outside are offices). Cost of living is low.

If you can't get wealthy off an engineering salary, you're not trying. Try not to blow all your money from paycheck to paycheck. Don't make your budget your salary. Make it like 1/3 of it, and invest. That's what I'm doing now and I haven't even started. I plan on retiring in my 50s a multi-millionaire. *awaits the, "oh you can't do that" or "yeah, good luck kid, wait til you get a gold digger of a wife" replies*

Oh and I plan on pursuing a PhD.

 

[bonkers325]

Engineering encompasses a broad spectrum of things. Problem solving, analysis, design, decision making, etc... for those that find it boring, you either don't have a passion for the career or are in really bad engineering firms. I've been co-oping at an engineering firm and I have never been bored of the work that I've been assigned. We do environmental consulting (air / ground / water remediation). We also have architectural, chemical, electrical, mechanical and structural departments, along with a custom fabrication shop and our own construction crew. Needless to say, there are opportunities everywhere. Unfortunately, not all engineering firms are so great.

 

[archcommus]

So it seems most people hate engineering.

Of course this isn't true, just the majority opinion in this thread.

I personally couldn't imagine doing anything else. How people migrate from EE to law is beyond me. Seems so different. I couldn't imagine ever doing any kind of law at all.

 

[dr150]

Get a CCIE. That's HUGE bucks (well into six figs) and EXTREMELY employable!!

 

[parikh26]

thanks to those that have responded. anyone else with an opinion to share?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: tami

Originally posted by: Safeway
Patent Law you dopes.

in what kind of capacity are you working in IP? are you a lawyer? are you working at a firm doing legal assistant type work? you may think that patent law pays well -- maybe it does for you -- but i recently worked in patent law myself and got paid horribly. i did trademark investigation research for a private firm hired by many huge companies that you probably ALL own products from.

it really depends what kind of field you're working in. my supervisors were stealing all the cash in my humblest and most respectful opinion, while workers like myself were often complaining about the hard work, tons of legal writing, and lousy pay. i'm glad i left, but i still hear complaints from the folks who still work there.

i'll add that i have a friend who graduated with top honors in three years in computer science at columbia university, then went straight to columbia law school and also did very well. he is working at the company he interned at as a student (during the summers) and his pay is quite good. however, do you really want to go to school for another three years? in the end, it pays off, but keep in mind that you definitely would be working hard both before and after you graduate.

were you working as a paralegal or an associate? pretty sure associates get paid quite a bit more...

 

[gopunk]

safeway - what school?

 

[gopunk]

btw guys, unless you work *really* hard, you're not going to get super-rich in law... by really hard, i mean 70-80 hour work weeks, occasionally spending weeks at your firm (don't worry they'll provide a bed & meals), etc. and even then, you're generally going to have to work as an indentured servant (albeit one making low six figures) for 8-10 years, and then if you get lucky, you'll make partner. you can start your own firm but the risk/reward ratio for that is probably about the same.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Engineering sucks.

It's all relative. I love my job. Sometimes, too many hours and the company has been "crappy" on benefits the last 2 years (no raises, etc), but the job is very enjoyable. Overtime pay helps!

Sorry OP...had to weigh in on the above statement!

<--- Electrical/Automation Engineer (Gets to design, program and "PLAY" with machinery! )

 

[Crappopotamus]

this has been a very informative thread. thanks guys.

<- in systems design engineering aka engineering for those that don't want to be engineers

 

[Feldenak]

I have been kicking around what I want to do in 3-4 years after I get experience at the job I am about to start (Asst. IT Manager). I agree with Crappopotamus, this has been a very informative and helpful thread.