Enginr oil weight question

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ringtail

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2012
1,030
34
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A Honda SR-V asks for 5-20 weight oil.

Is it OK if I put 10-30 weight in there?

Am I hurting anything using 10-30?

(I'm hoping the 5-20 REALLY only applies when the engine is brand new, but after it racks up some miles then it's OK to use a heavier oil. Is this true?)
 

eng2d2

Golden Member
Nov 7, 2013
1,007
38
91
Use oil recommended by manufacturer however using a heavy weight oil occasionally wont hurt your car but it will affect your gas mileage.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,655
5,346
136
I asked a Ford engineer this exact question. He said the bearing tolerances were extremely tight, and thats why they required 5/20.
 

DeviousTrap

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2002
4,841
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I have to ask...why? Why not go with what your manufacturer calls for? There shouldn't be any appreciable cost difference.
 

ThatsABigOne

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
4,430
23
81
I would stick with recommended weight. Modern cars have a wide range of sensors and many of them depend on fluid pressure. Using wrong oil weight may throw one of those sensors out of its normal range causing issues.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
I have to ask...why? Why not go with what your manufacturer calls for? There shouldn't be any appreciable cost difference.


Probably because 5W-20 only comes as a synthetic and 10W-30 can be found as a conventional dino oil, as well as synthetic, so it'd be cheaper.
 

Mide

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2008
1,547
0
71
You'll want to stick with the manufacture's recommended oil weight. On some more sensitive cars your check engine light may even come on.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
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I asked a Ford engineer this exact question. He said the bearing tolerances were extremely tight, and thats why they required 5/20.

To bad that's a BS answer and false. The same motors that called for 5w30 are the same motors that NOW call for 5w20.


If the weather is warm then yes OP you can use 10w30 with no harm done. If its cold then best to stick to the 5wXX or 0wXX weight oils.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
To bad that's a BS answer and false. The same motors that called for 5w30 are the same motors that NOW call for 5w20.


If the weather is warm then yes OP you can use 10w30 with no harm done. If its cold then best to stick to the 5wXX or 0wXX weight oils.

It's best to stick with a 5w or 0w anyway for less cold start wear.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,655
5,346
136
To bad that's a BS answer and false. The same motors that called for 5w30 are the same motors that NOW call for 5w20.


If the weather is warm then yes OP you can use 10w30 with no harm done. If its cold then best to stick to the 5wXX or 0wXX weight oils.

I never questioned the veracity of the statement, and simply used the 5/20. But I have to wonder, why would the guy lie about something so inconsequential?
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
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I never questioned the veracity of the statement, and simply used the 5/20. But I have to wonder, why would the guy lie about something so inconsequential?

Same reason people keep spreading the "you can't switch between syn and dino..." and other old wives tales. They hear it and keep repeating it because someone else told them.

Same people probably swear by slick50 back in the day and now seafoam today. Just because someone says its true does not make it so.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
A Honda SR-V asks for 5-20 weight oil.

Is it OK if I put 10-30 weight in there?

Am I hurting anything using 10-30?

(I'm hoping the 5-20 REALLY only applies when the engine is brand new, but after it racks up some miles then it's OK to use a heavier oil. Is this true?)

It will hurt your warranty...
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
To bad that's a BS answer and false. The same motors that called for 5w30 are the same motors that NOW call for 5w20.

While Ford has retroactively made 5w20 the recommended oil for many "legacy" engines you cannot simply make a blanket statement like this.

Just because some older designs are now approved to use 5w20 oils does not change the fact that a clean sheet engine design that is spec-ed for 5w20 will need the thinner oil and will suffer excess cold-start wear with 10w30 oil, especially in winter.

While the OP using 10w30 will not grenade his engine, it will have a slight negative effect on overall longevity. Using 10w30 for one oil change probably won't have a measurable effect, but using 10w30 at every oil change would be a bad idea unless OP is in a hot climate that doesn't see temps below about 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

ZV
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
To bad that's a BS answer and false. The same motors that called for 5w30 are the same motors that NOW call for 5w20.


If the weather is warm then yes OP you can use 10w30 with no harm done. If its cold then best to stick to the 5wXX or 0wXX weight oils.

Yes, the engineers that designed the motor have no idea what they're talking about. They just go 'meh, looks like a 5W20 motor' when they're all done.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
So much fail...so little time!

Manufacturers have the government looking over their shoulder and 1 MPG, and meeting EPA regulations can make all the the differences in meeting govt standards for mileage...and losing many millions.

New cars run water-like oil not because it's the best, but because they have lots of goals to meet. They have to meet economy, wear, seal compatability, Emulsion retention, emissions systems durability, mileage, EPA emission (a BIG one), profitability and driveability.

The 10w-30 (or any other oil) of today is NOT the same as 10w-30 of just ten years ago. Look into the actual breakdown and see that many chemicals, including ZDDP have taken a nose-dive.

SO if a manufacturer is saying that for a legacy engine, that a different (and lighter) oil is OK...they are likely spouting marketing hype, so as to not contradict themselves in front of the govt lawyers.

That being said, for a daily driver, and for most purposes, read the owners manual for the car and match the oil reccomendations for that year and temperature zone......and be done with it.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Yes, the engineers that designed the motor have no idea what they're talking about. They just go 'meh, looks like a 5W20 motor' when they're all done.


Facepalm. Yea cause its the engineers that choose 5w20 oil, not the bean counters trying to meet CAFE standards. Just like the engines that were "designed" for 5w30 were then switched to 5w20 after the fact due to the engineers, not the bean counters.
 

nedfunnell

Senior member
Nov 14, 2009
372
0
76
Facepalm. Yea cause its the engineers that choose 5w20 oil, not the bean counters trying to meet CAFE standards. Just like the engines that were "designed" for 5w30 were then switched to 5w20 after the fact due to the engineers, not the bean counters.

'cause, you know, it's impossible for the engine's design or manufacturing practice to change at all since introduction. Different bearing tolerances after the engine is announced is out of the question. Big manufacturers never change designs to accomodate legislative or market pressure, they just change oil recommendations for million of engines that they're responsible for in-warranty repair of without even thinking of adjusting anything else. You know, just to give internet armchair conspiracy theorists something to chew on.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106

Nothing in that post says anything about the engine design or engineering. In fact it talked about gas mileage, easier flowing ,etc... Exactly what I have been saying, its about gas mileage.

And if 5w20 was the bees knees then why did some high performance Fords like the GT500 call for a much thicker oil if 5w20 would protect and work great?



'cause, you know, it's impossible for the engine's design or manufacturing practice to change at all since introduction. Different bearing tolerances after the engine is announced is out of the question. Big manufacturers never change designs to accomodate legislative or market pressure, they just change oil recommendations for million of engines that they're responsible for in-warranty repair of without even thinking of adjusting anything else. You know, just to give internet armchair conspiracy theorists something to chew on.

Before you look any more like a fool look up the specs of the motors when they changed from 5w30 to 5w20 in the US. I have been building motors for several decades now and have over 20 years experience, so I know the specs. Lets see if you want to back your claims up.

Post that major bearing clearance difference in those motors, you know since newer motors are so much tighter than those old piece of junk ones and require the 5w20 over the 5w30 as its so a big difference and all.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Nothing in that post says anything about the engine design or engineering. In fact it talked about gas mileage, easier flowing ,etc... Exactly what I have been saying, its about gas mileage.

And if 5w20 was the bees knees then why did some high performance Fords like the GT500 call for a much thicker oil if 5w20 would protect and work great?

Bro, do you even read?

Why 5W20 Oil?
Some customers are reluctant to follow Ford's recommendation to use 5W-20 oil in their engines based on the incorrect assumption that Ford and other Auto Manufacturers only recommend 5W-20 oil in order to increase fuel economy. Using 5W-20 oil can increase fuel economy by about 6/10ths of a percent compared to 5W-30 and more if you are currently using a higher viscosity oil. This equates to an additional savings of 125 million gallons per year when used in all applicable Ford vehicles. Since its introduction in the 2001 MY, 5W-20 oils have saved up to 640 million gallons of gasoline in the U.S. or an equivalent 5.6 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions.

5W-20 oil is a thinner oil with lighter viscosity that creates less drag on the crankshaft, pistons and valvetrain. Additionally, the oil pump can pump thinner oil more easily, improving oil circulation. Any increase in fuel economy may not be noticed by the average motorist. Machined internal engine parts are more precise than the parts of 20 years ago. This means that clearances between moving parts are smaller and more exact. Thinner oil such as 5W-20 can flow more freely through the engine while still filling the spaces. Thicker oil is harder to push through the spaces between the parts. This causes the oil pump to work harder, which in turn increases oil pressure while simultaneously decreasing oil volume. A lack of oil volume results in a decrease of lubrication and cooling, which may decrease engine part life.

The lighter viscosity of 5W-20 oil flows faster at start-up compared to higher viscosity oils, which helps reduce engine wear in critical areas by lubricating parts faster. Valvetrain components at the top of the engine require immediate lubrication at start-up.

Oil additives are not recommended as noted in the owners manual. The American Petroleum Institute (API) certifies that oils such as Motorcraft 5W-20 already contain the necessary additives for friction, detergent, etc... The addition of additives may interfere and react with the additives already present in the certified oil.

To me it seems like Ford tried REALLY hard to tell people that the fuel economy difference, while measurable across millions of vehicles, would be imperceptible to the individual driver. 0.6% fuel economy difference is going from 30.00mpg to 30.18mpg, trivial.

To put the 640M gallon figure in perspective: in 2007 (about the time of this article) the US burned 142Billion (that's with a 'b') gallons of fuel every year. The article notes MY2001 - M2007 savings of 640M gallons, or an estimated 640M/(142B*7)=0.064% of the total gasoline consumed in the US.

The reasons why a GT500, or similar limited-run high-performance car, uses thicker oil is that the specific engine power output is considerably higher than the average car, and thus temperatures are too, so a thicker oil is needed for these rare and demanding applications. Another possibility is that thicker oil is needed to properly support the connecting rods and crank under the higher loads (and thus higher bearing stresses) that a car like a GT500 sees. This does not mean that your average grocery-getter will benefit from thicker oil.

Before you look any more like a fool look up the specs of the motors when they changed from 5w30 to 5w20 in the US. I have been building motors for several decades now and have over 20 years experience, so I know the specs. Lets see if you want to back your claims up.

Post that major bearing clearance difference in those motors, you know since newer motors are so much tighter than those old piece of junk ones and require the 5w20 over the 5w30 as its so a big difference and all.

This is about so, so much more than main bearing clearances. It's about oil passage dimensions and surface finish, oil pump tolerances and pump shape, oil filter size and location, viscous coupling between parts moving in oil, heat transfer to the oil (which is influenced by flow rate, viscosity, density, etc), and probably a dozen other things. Did you consider that the higher oil flow rates resulting from using thinner oil may allow the use of a similar bearing fit as compared to a thicker oil? At least from a bearing capacity standpoint.

Did you ever consider the following:

-The extra pumping power needed for thicker oil will stress the oil pump more and likely shorten the oil pump life.
-Thicker, more viscous, oil will not transfer heat as rapidly as thinner oil, leading to higher component temperatures and thus more wear and faster material degradation.
-The engine oil pressure regulator/bypass won't work as intended. The filter bypass valve will open earlier, causing more unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine.
-Engine components that rely on oil pressure to function will get thrown out of whack, components like timing chain tensioners, HLAs, etc. (not that all engines have these components)
-Low oil pressure warnings assume a given flow at a pressure. A thicker oil can keep the low oil pressure warning from tripping though there may be insufficient oil flow to lubricate the engine.
-Modern engines are designed to be as small and light as possible, which means smaller oil channels. Thinner oil will flow more volume through these channels than thicker oils. A thicker oil might lead to oil starvation.

Now, let's all be reasonable here, I'm not saying that running 10W30 instead of 5W20 will explode every engine. What I'm saying is that there are many, many aspects to consider when deciding what oil to use.

However, the most important one is: why am I going against the manufacturers suggestions? I go against MFG spec in one specific case: I run 5W40 instead of 10W30 in my turbo Miata for 3 reasons (1) the turbo's oil feed sucks out some oil flow capacity, so I like a lower cold viscosity to make sure everything gets oiled, especially at startup, and a lower viscosity oil will flow more volume, (2) I've more than doubled the power output of the engine, so having a higher hot viscosity protects the crank and maintains oil pressure better under heavy load, including pressure to the oil-cooled turbo and (3) I run the oil through an oil cooler, and having the lower cold weight, again, mitigates loss of pressure/flow through the cooling core.

On all my other cars I use the MFG spec'd weight because I know that dozens or hundreds of people have given it much more thought than I ever will.
 
Last edited:

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Bro, do you even read?



To me it seems like Ford tried REALLY hard to tell people that the fuel economy difference, while measurable across millions of vehicles, would be imperceptible to the individual driver. 0.6% fuel economy difference is going from 30.00mpg to 30.18mpg, trivial.

To put the 640M gallon figure in perspective: in 2007 (about the time of this article) the US burned 142Billion (that's with a 'b') gallons of fuel every year. The article notes MY2001 - M2007 savings of 640M gallons, or an estimated 640M/(142B*7)=0.064% of the total gasoline consumed in the US.

The reasons why a GT500, or similar limited-run high-performance car, uses thicker oil is that the specific engine power output is considerably higher than the average car, and thus temperatures are too, so a thicker oil is needed for these rare and demanding applications. Another possibility is that thicker oil is needed to properly support the connecting rods and crank under the higher loads (and thus higher bearing stresses) that a car like a GT500 sees. This does not mean that your average grocery-getter will benefit from thicker oil.



This is about so, so much more than main bearing clearances. It's about oil passage dimensions and surface finish, oil pump tolerances and pump shape, oil filter size and location, viscous coupling between parts moving in oil, heat transfer to the oil (which is influenced by flow rate, viscosity, density, etc), and probably a dozen other things. Did you consider that the higher oil flow rates resulting from using thinner oil may allow the use of a similar bearing fit as compared to a thicker oil? At least from a bearing capacity standpoint.

Did you ever consider the following:

-The extra pumping power needed for thicker oil will stress the oil pump more and likely shorten the oil pump life.
-Thicker, more viscous, oil will not transfer heat as rapidly as thinner oil, leading to higher component temperatures and thus more wear and faster material degradation.
-The engine oil pressure regulator/bypass won't work as intended. The filter bypass valve will open earlier, causing more unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine.
-Engine components that rely on oil pressure to function will get thrown out of whack, components like timing chain tensioners, HLAs, etc. (not that all engines have these components)
-Low oil pressure warnings assume a given flow at a pressure. A thicker oil can keep the low oil pressure warning from tripping though there may be insufficient oil flow to lubricate the engine.
-Modern engines are designed to be as small and light as possible, which means smaller oil channels. Thinner oil will flow more volume through these channels than thicker oils. A thicker oil might lead to oil starvation.

Now, let's all be reasonable here, I'm not saying that running 10W30 instead of 5W20 will explode every engine. What I'm saying is that there are many, many aspects to consider when deciding what oil to use.

However, the most important one is: why am I going against the manufacturers suggestions? I go against MFG spec in one specific case: I run 5W40 instead of 10W30 in my turbo Miata for 3 reasons (1) the turbo's oil feed sucks out some oil flow capacity, so I like a lower cold viscosity to make sure everything gets oiled, especially at startup, and a lower viscosity oil will flow more volume and (2) I've more than doubled the power output of the engine, so having a higher hot viscosity protects the crank and maintains oil pressure better under heavy load, including pressure to the oil-cooled turbo and (3) I run the oil through an oil cooler, and having the lower cold weight, again, mitigates loss of pressure/flow through the cooling core.

On all my other cars I use the MFG spec'd weight because I know that dozens or hundreds of people have given it much more thought than I ever will.

Wow so you want to triple down on stupid?

Please show me where the "oil channels" got smaller, or how the oil pump is weaker now from all that "thicker oil" stress, etc... You and others keep making claims yet the SAME motors called for different oils.

This was 100% for CAFE reasons. If you have REAL PROOF I would love to see it.
 
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