EPA head lies, or is deluded, about the science of global warming

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Jul 9, 2009
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Scientists, if they are scientists, still need to apply the scientific method, to make the hypothesis, test it, troubleshoot it, reveal all the data and make sure it's reproducible. Instead they try to say that the science is settled and if you dare to question it you become a "denier". It should be science, not policy and politics awarding a gravy train of funding for political allies.

Another nice opinion piece on Pruitt.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...-incomplete/hekwjPBTScRpFyXaXnrWhI/story.html

This is not how science works. Certainly climate is too complex to predict precise outcomes over long times since it is chaotic in a formal sense. Note "formal" where chaotic and random are not in anyway the same. Weather (which is not the same as climate) can be predicted rather well as long as one understands what that means, or perhaps what it doesn't. In my region precipitation can vary significantly every several miles. Snow belts are very real. AHAH WEATHER IS WRONG! No, but it isn't exact. Better off without predictions then? No.

Well let's make it better. Accumulate data and stare at it. Don't interpret, just stare. The LHC? Stare at it. Students learning physics? Stare in the labs.

Data must be interpreted full stop and this is exactly what is ignorant/misleading in the piece in the Federalist. The nature of the constituents has been examined and still are in combinations and scenario. Models are tested, and after decades we have imperfect results. Not "wrong" but imprecise. The author has not shown a sufficient basis for objection.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Scientists, if they are scientists, still need to apply the scientific method, to make the hypothesis, test it, troubleshoot it, reveal all the data and make sure it's reproducible. Instead they try to say that the science is settled and if you dare to question it you become a "denier". It should be science, not policy and politics awarding a gravy train of funding for political allies.
So true. What's funny is that you don't seem to realize (or find it inconvenient to realize) that the real gravy train is in climate change denialism and those who accept climate change are the ones pushing science. There's a reason why basically all of the climate change denial literature comes from right wing political organizations, these hacks are taking huge sums of money from conservative donors and churning out crap for the easily duped like yourself.

One more time on what you have refused to answer so far: you said that you accepted Judith Curry's position on climate change because she was a climatologist. Does that mean that if many, many more climatologists had a different opinion on the science that you would be similarly accepting of their view? If not, why?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Scientists, if they are scientists, still need to apply the scientific method, to make the hypothesis, test it, troubleshoot it, reveal all the data and make sure it's reproducible. Instead they try to say that the science is settled and if you dare to question it you become a "denier". It should be science, not policy and politics awarding a gravy train of funding for political allies.

Another nice opinion piece on Pruitt.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...-incomplete/hekwjPBTScRpFyXaXnrWhI/story.html

I'm thinking this may be too hard for Pruitt and newspaper folk, but let's have a look at the BG piece. His analysis is flawed because he expects precise results. Note that the models aren't that even when 15 variables are spot on. So what does that mean? It means that he's recognized (although if he understands is another matter) that climate process is complicated. OK, it is. But there's the factor he's missed and that is one have differing results, but the underlying causes can be determined. Whether we have 1 or 4 degrees of warming doesn't change the causative factors. Address those and the problem resolves itself until the chaotic "attractor" of the climate dynamic is set to a higher energy state and gets stuck until some other drastic event moves that around. We don't want that.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Climate change deniers are the 21st century's flat earthers, sound logic.



Factoid!

40 days in the original context meant "quite a while", not literally 40 days. Numbers to the Hebrews had special significance besides literal quanties.

Back to the thread!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
No, it's the whole volume, which should be obvious enough to anyone with any passing familiarity with the text, or could read or use a computer well enough. Contained within are sections on development rather devoid of freud.



That's because you have a lot of trouble grasping what that passage means due lack of any background. It's saying that ye ol' emphasis on Freudian notions that adulthood was unimportant caused complete neglect of important areas of study. Take some time to ponder how that portrays Freud.




The author is being charitable (and in the case of freud arguably facetious) not literal in an homage to pioneers. That's evident enough from their selection of papers.

Here's an exercise even ignorant readers can try once you figure out how to view all the pages in the work: search for the word freud or associated "theory" to see just how influential he came to be. Also try it out on a contemporary text: http://www.cee.uma.pt/ron/Psychology 8th - Gleitman, Gross, Reisberg.pdf. Also make sure to go past the preface.




Let's not pretend you have the slightest clue what's going on here.
Here is a link that says that deniers deny they deny: It says something about Freud too:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...5/freud-s-not-dead-he-s-just-really-hard-find.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Here is a link that says that deniers deny they deny: It says something about Freud too:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...5/freud-s-not-dead-he-s-just-really-hard-find.

Linking random crap you managed to google doesn't mean you understand it, as the conservatives here are typically eager to never learn a lesson from.

To have some inkling of what that's talking about, first know that there's two sides to "psychology": the academic more scientific pursuit and the clinical therapy. The former is where theory comes in and where freud basically fell off the map given his "theories" much like yours are found to be rather unscientific (not envisioned for any sort of falsifiability). The latter can take a more traditionalist approach, and therefore some practitioners use some aspects of freud's broader therapy "method" which isn't quite predicated on crackpot ideas of distilling everything down to desiring sex with your mother or other naive explanations of human behavior etc. That's basically what some presumed psychoanalyst was editorializing about in your link, not defending freud as science.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
Linking random crap you managed to google doesn't mean you understand it, as the conservatives here are typically eager to never learn a lesson from.

To have some inkling of what that's talking about, first know that there's two sides to "psychology": the academic more scientific pursuit and the clinical therapy. The former is where theory comes in and where freud basically fell off the map given his "theories" much like yours are found to be rather unscientific (not envisioned for any sort of falsifiability). The latter can take a more traditionalist approach, and therefore some practitioners use some aspects of freud's broader therapy "method" which isn't quite predicated on crackpot ideas of distilling everything down to desiring sex with your mother or other naive explanations of human behavior etc. That's basically what some presumed psychoanalyst was editorializing about in your link, not defending freud as science.
When I showed you from your own link that Freud's ideas were deemed grand, you called it sarcasm. When I provide my own link you say presumed psychoanalysis. As far as Freud's theories falling off the map because they were derived via non scientific methods, according to you, let's look at your link again:

"What is so satisfying about this Handbook is how so
much of what is new and invigorating in the field is now a
part of our conventional wisdom. We are no longer bound by
the early constraints of psychology that identified science
with experimentation and quantification and operationally
defined variables. Observation, ethnographic studies and
narrative, and other qualitative methodologies are now
part of the developmentalist’s tool kit. And we no longer
have only the grand theories of Freud, Piaget, and Erikson;
we also appreciate the domain specificity of so much of
human thought and behavior. Perhaps you don't understand what you read but if you look up qualitative methodologies you will see that the kind of knowledge I have is more and more a part of what psychology is. This is unfortunate for you if you have any real interest in the field because you are pretty unperceptive and frozen in a schemata of the past.

And I appreciate how you identify that aspect of Freud's thinking that has fallen out of favor which you uncharitably describe as wanting to have sex with your mother because, as I said your beef with Freud, I knew, has noting to do with anything I have said. I have never once mentioned that people want to have sex with their Mom, but rather that we hate ourselves because we were all put down. I am ending my attempts to reason with you. A donkey laden with books remains a donkey and there is nothing to be gained by paying attention to your braying.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
When I showed you from your own link that Freud's ideas were deemed grand, you called it sarcasm. When I provide my own link you say presumed psychoanalysis. As far as Freud's theories falling off the map because they were derived via non scientific methods, according to you, let's look at your link again:

"What is so satisfying about this Handbook is how so
much of what is new and invigorating in the field is now a
part of our conventional wisdom. We are no longer bound by
the early constraints of psychology that identified science
with experimentation and quantification and operationally
defined variables. Observation, ethnographic studies and
narrative, and other qualitative methodologies are now
part of the developmentalist’s tool kit. And we no longer
have only the grand theories of Freud, Piaget, and Erikson;
we also appreciate the domain specificity of so much of
human thought and behavior. Perhaps you don't understand what you read but if you look up qualitative methodologies you will see that the kind of knowledge I have is more and more a part of what psychology is. This is unfortunate for you if you have any real interest in the field because you are pretty unperceptive and frozen in a schemata of the past.

And I appreciate how you identify that aspect of Freud's thinking that has fallen out of favor which you uncharitably describe as wanting to have sex with your mother because, as I said your beef with Freud, I knew, has noting to do with anything I have said. I have never once mentioned that people want to have sex with their Mom, but rather that we hate ourselves because we were all put down. I am ending my attempts to reason with you. A donkey laden with books remains a donkey and there is nothing to be gained by paying attention to your braying.

This isn't a contentious issue if you could ever bother to read anything about/of modern psychology instead of going with completely uninformed wishful thinking about the preface. The development text contains ~nothing about freud even though his work which dominated the field for decades was literally all about development, and similarly for the textbooks. You might as well argue that the physical elements are circle/square/triangle, and when someone points out that the similar fire/water/earth fell out of fashion in all contemporary physics then try to argue that books showing this mean nothing because the forward had kind words for the Greek pioneers.

The relationship between freud's crackpot and yours is clear enough ("all X is Y, because I said so"), which you're basically admitting by this hopeless defense of his "grand" ideas given the proximity of his approach to yours. The additional comedy here is if freud was right, it necessarily means you're wrong since if all development is due to sexual repression it can't be all due to emotional abuse. But let's not pretend this is any sort of rational topic for you any more than climate is for conservative denialists.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
The Climate Hoax has robbed the Tax Payer and corrupted Public Policy. We should ask for a "Refund".
 
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