EPA says greenhouse gases endanger human health

[JohnOfSheffield]

The whole idea of cap and trade and carbon credits is Medieval.

Cap and trade:
Pay the King his tribute and you will be allowed to prosper.

Carbon Credits:
Pay the Church for your sins and all will be forgiven. Follow the money.

(Just follow the money.)

Yeah, it's just that it's ALWAYS the "conservative movement" that enforces socialism standards as trade caps.

I suppose as a nation, without the conservative movement you'd be right up there with nations as the UK and Sweden as most capitalistic nations.

 

[PJABBER]

The whole idea of cap and trade and carbon credits is Medieval.

Cap and trade:
Pay the King his tribute and you will be allowed to prosper.

Carbon Credits:
Pay the Church for your sins and all will be forgiven. Follow the money.

(Just follow the money.)

That is simply brilliant!

 

[werepossum]

That would be a seriously crazy reading to say that Congress can exercise its powers, but it can't hire someone to exercise those powers at the pleasure of Congress.

Oddly enough that was exactly the reasoning that SCOTUS used to strike down the presidential line-item veto, that Congress is granted certain powers and it may not delegate those powers to another branch of government. The EPA is an Executive Branch Agency formed by an Executive Order of President Nixon as a reorganization of the Executive branch, or so the EPA believes. http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/epa/15b.htm Congress retains only oversight, as it does over all Executive Branch agencies. Thus SCOTUS demanded that Congress cede its power to an Executive Branch agency (EPA), less than a decade after it decreed that Congress could NOT cede its power to the Executive branch (CLINTON v.CITY OF NEW YORK.)

 

[werepossum]

The whole idea of cap and trade and carbon credits is Medieval.

Cap and trade:
Pay the King his tribute and you will be allowed to prosper.

Carbon Credits:
Pay the Church for your sins and all will be forgiven. Follow the money.

(Just follow the money.)

BRILLIANT!

It's all part of the new march back into serfdom, the new fascism. Cap and trade allows the government (i.e. king) to determine who gets carbon credits and for what, allowing its commissars (i.e. presidential czars, directors, administrators, etc.) to control the economy by controlling individual companies - what they produce, how much they produce, how they produce it, and which companies get to produce it. Favored courtiers may now get royal monopolies (via generous CO2 allowances); disfavored courtiers face royal sanctions (tight CO2 allowances) leading to financial ruin. It will also grant the bankrupt blue states which have driven away their own industry a new lease on life; merely grant them generous carbon credits and watch the money from red state indulgences come rolling in.

 

[Sacrilege]

BRILLIANT!

It's all part of the new march back into serfdom, the new fascism. Cap and trade allows the government (i.e. king) to determine who gets carbon credits and for what, allowing its commissars (i.e. presidential czars, directors, administrators, etc.) to control the economy by controlling individual companies - what they produce, how much they produce, how they produce it, and which companies get to produce it. Favored courtiers may now get royal monopolies (via generous CO2 allowances); disfavored courtiers face royal sanctions (tight CO2 allowances) leading to financial ruin. It will also grant the bankrupt blue states which have driven away their own industry a new lease on life; merely grant them generous carbon credits and watch the money from red state indulgences come rolling in.

Now you just have to figure out how International Jewry figure into this scheme!

 

[fskimospy]

Oddly enough that was exactly the reasoning that SCOTUS used to strike down the presidential line-item veto, that Congress is granted certain powers and it may not delegate those powers to another branch of government. The EPA is an Executive Branch Agency formed by an Executive Order of President Nixon as a reorganization of the Executive branch, or so the EPA believes. http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/epa/15b.htm Congress retains only oversight, as it does over all Executive Branch agencies. Thus SCOTUS demanded that Congress cede its power to an Executive Branch agency (EPA), less than a decade after it decreed that Congress could NOT cede its power to the Executive branch (CLINTON v.CITY OF NEW YORK.)

No that's not odd at all. You are confusing separation of powers with delegation of power. The ruling was not in any way that Congress could not delegate powers, it's that it couldn't delegate one specific power. Also, I have no idea what you mean when you say the USSC demanded Congress cede its power to an executive agency. I don't even know what you mean by 'Congress retains only oversight'. Congress can pass new laws that force the EPA to do things, for example when the EPA was not enforcing Congress' mandates in the Clean Air Act in Massachusetts v. EPA, where the USSC explicitly ordered the EPA to comply with Congressional instruction.

The separation of powers doctrine prohibits Congress from delegating certain exclusive powers (such as the power to legislate) to the executive, but the USSC has only found about 2 or 3 cases in the entire history of the United States in which Congress could not delegate one of its many powers.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

And evidently the EPA can thus enforce laws about CO2 WITHOUT having to go through Congress first.

Considering people emit about a kilo of CO2 each day, you are all risks to longevity and thus must be expunged. Each of you reading this is an eco-catastrophe, just on a small scale.

I can picture it now...Obama and liberal dems pushing for a respiration based tax for those earning over 200k a year as a way to fight "global warming".

 

[Craig234]

The EPA was NOT created by congress rather an executive order. The head of the EPA is appointed by the president.

This is nothing more than the executive branch trying to circumvent the legislative branch of the government.

Obama knows he cannot get Cap & Tax passed and found a way around congress.

So, since Congress has approved no ffunding for the EPA, it's staffed by unpaid volunteers? Man, the liberals are the best at cutting spending.

 

[Zebo]

BRILLIANT!

It's all part of the new march back into serfdom, the new fascism. Cap and trade allows the government (i.e. king) to determine who gets carbon credits and for what, allowing its commissars (i.e. presidential czars, directors, administrators, etc.) to control the economy by controlling individual companies - what they produce, how much they produce, how they produce it, and which companies get to produce it. Favored courtiers may now get royal monopolies (via generous CO2 allowances); disfavored courtiers face royal sanctions (tight CO2 allowances) leading to financial ruin. It will also grant the bankrupt blue states which have driven away their own industry a new lease on life; merely grant them generous carbon credits and watch the money from red state indulgences come rolling in.

No the robber banks get to determine who get carbon credits and game them - please read Matt Taibbi's "The Great American Bubble Machine" I quoted on PP2 - This will make their oil pump and dump look like child play costing consumers/businesses literally trillions a year with zero stability in pricing of energy.

Excerpt: Instead of simply imposing a fixed government levy on carbon pollution and forcing unclean energy producers to pay for the mess they make, cap-and-trade will allow a small tribe of greedy-as-hell Wall Street swine to turn yet another commodities market into a private tax collection scheme. This is worse than the bailout: It allows the bank to seize taxpayer money before it's even collected.

 

[StageLeft]

I'm sure that some market will open for trading credits and as with other commodities it will have booms and busts and the typical speculators running things all fvckery-style everywhere.

 

[exdeath]

I'm going to start carrying an assault rifle and body armor in my car. I must insist that regardless what laws or regulations are enacted regarding CO2, especially those I had no say in and do not approve of, they WILL NOT affect me and I will continue driving whatever I damn well please.

Do not force me to protect myself and my property. It will not be worth the cost.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
- Thomas Jefferson

 

[exdeath]

How are income taxes unconstitutional?
The 16th Ammendment


Pretty clear cut to me.

Lots of things are illegal, unconstitutional, or morally wrong, that doesn't stop them from being passed as laws or amendments.

Just because something is 'law' does not make it right or legal or mean "the people" are obligated to stand down and obey. This country is quite unlike Iran where a disarmed populace of hundreds of thousands are coerced and turned away by a few armed police; I assure you the outcome would be quite different here in the USA.

Prohibition is a great example of something that was made not only a law, but constitutional amendment, resisted by the people in all forms, often with violence; and to great effect, it only lasted some 13 years before government had no choice but to repeal it. Prohibition was ineffective and unenforceable, as will be anything that strongly interferes with every day individual lives. Tolerance for infringements of individual liberty are growing thin across the nation.

Need more? Just talk to some elderly Black or Jewish folks about what they think about "laws"; among many many other topics where being "law" was no excuse.

"Just enforcing the law and doing my job" was no excuse for the Nazis, nor will it be an excuse for any officer who attempts to pull me out of my car under some bullshit CO2 restriction it doesn't meet.