EPIC Fail, Graduate from Loyola University end up a Grocery Bagger.

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yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
We have a friend who is 35 and has relatively wealthy parents. She went to a couple years of college, got an associates in event planning, and has otherwise spent the better part of 20 years mooching off her parents who buy her cars and pay her bills. She floats from being a waitress to a sales person and back. What's her problem?

She wants what she can't have. She wants a 6' 4" supermodel looking guy who makes 200k/yr so she can be a stay at home mom. She skipped looking for the avg joe who would work his way up because she wasn't willing to do the same. Now her looks have faded and she won't be anybody's trophy wife (more like consolation prize) because she brings nothing to the table.

Even now, she is going out to dinner 2-3 times a week and going on vacation up to the north shore. Meanwhile, I work 10-11hrs/day, commute another hour, but still have managed to do something with my life.

...

She may complain, but she's actually sort of living the life, isn't she? Easy job, dinner out a bunch of times a week, vacations... As long as the parental largesse keeps coming in, she's golden.

There is an article floating around that debunks the stem shortage myth. There are far more stem degree holders than there will ever be stem jobs. But yet we want to import stem labor up drive down stem wages. Yay. Go GOP.

I knew several stem degree holders. They all work in sales. Not consumer level retail but sales none the less.

The other part of the STEM myth is that STEM pays. For the amount of effort and education it really isn't that lucrative a paycheque.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136
Your last paragraph is pretty similar to me. I did a lot of hard work growing up, so now most things don't seem that bad. For me, reality set in when I got my first degree and I started working but had no time or money to really do anything.
dafuq? ...you deserved better without hard work. Right?
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106

Blasphemy... 4:3 video in the age of HD and widescreen.

There is an article floating around that debunks the stem shortage myth. There are far more stem degree holders than there will ever be stem jobs. But yet we want to import stem labor up drive down stem wages. Yay. Go GOP.

I knew several stem degree holders. They all work in sales. Not consumer level retail but sales none the less.

I've seen at least one article discussing the STEM shortage myth. And one of my "state's" engineering organizations also has a piece about a lot of engineering students not working in engineering or being underemployed.

I have two civil engineering degrees and no one's knocking on my door -- I have a related job, but no one's soliciting me on job sites, and I had trouble getting my first job a few years back. Oh, and if you think I graduated at the bottom, my grad school average in a top 5 school in the country was a solid 3.97/4.00.

My take is that we're plain pumping out too many university graduates, regardless of their field of study.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136
Sorry - and to think I usually live by a strict no-acronyms rule. That's Science, Technology, Engineering & Math degrees.
Thanks

Blasphemy... 4:3 video in the age of HD and widescreen.



I've seen at least one article discussing the STEM shortage myth. And one of my "state's" engineering organizations also has a piece about a lot of engineering students not working in engineering or being underemployed.

I have two civil engineering degrees and no one's knocking on my door -- I have a related job, but no one's soliciting me on job sites, and I had trouble getting my first job a few years back. Oh, and if you think I graduated at the bottom, my grad school average in a top 5 school in the country was a solid 3.97/4.00.

My take is that we're plain pumping out too many university graduates, regardless of their field of study.
Or sucking to many in for cheap $$? hs1bc (?)

Kid of a customer has a EE from Clemson, 3.5+, co-op experience...still looking.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
I'm a millennial with a real job who still lives at home. Why? Housing costs. Been spending the last few years squirrelling away as much cash as possible for a down payment. Banks aren't giving away the big mortgages like they used to. Been shopping around. Saw a new condo project I really liked that I could afford. About $250k for 818sq ft. Really about as good as I'm going to get, that's not in the ghetto. Not due to be finished until 2016. Keeping my ears open for good deals elsewhere. I'm also a little concerned about the resale value of apartment condos, given how overheated the Toronto market is. So it's playing the waiting game. For the record, a base, base condo is $200k out here. And it's small. Bedroom, living room, half kitchen if you're lucky. Bachelor apartments more often than not.

The other option is renting, but there's currently a shortage of rental units here. High prices. $1000/mo doesn't even guarantee you a clean and safe building any more, let alone in a clean and safe neighbourhood. So I've decided a long term investment is wiser. Believe me, my parents drive me nuts so I don't want to be there any longer. But it's all a big waiting game given how unstable the real estate market is getting in the Greater Toronto Area.

After I graduated university, I was in a bit of a rough spot. Right when the recession was peaking. Was out of work for a couple months. Got a job cleaning cars. 10.5 hour days for minimum wage. Hated it with a passion. Went back to school for more training. Was going 7 days a week at one point. Pulling 16 hour days every weekend trying to get job experience by volunteering. Did that for 2 years. Then got the job at the TV station. Right now I'm currently on day 7 of working straight due to some scheduling issues.

At home, I basically live like I'm on my own. Do my own cooking, cleaning, laundry, pay for the internet, TV, and telephone, my car, food. In lieu of rent (this was at my parents' insistence), I have a set minimum amount that I put in my house account every month. Not out partying or having a good time. Basically, every penny I don't spend goes to a down payment. So far got about $70k saved. Though some of that is for furniture. Wanted a small townhouse but those are now pushing $300k. Just gotta keep working those balls off.

Make sure you take some time and money to spend living life now. You'll burn out and have regrets later in life if you don't.
 

Rudee

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
11,218
2
76
I'm about 18 years away from retiring. I wouldn't want to be a young kid now a days with how insanely expensive things are for things like Tuition and Homes, etc.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
It's not just people with liberal arts degrees. We also have oversupplies of STEM graduates including PhD scientists and even people with professional degrees (MBA, law).

Claiming that all of these victims of college graduate overproduction are fully responsible for their fate is ignorant. It's part of an "I've got mine, F-You!" mentality.

Why Did 17 Million Students Go To College

From Wall Street to Walmart: Why College Graduates Are Not Getting Good Jobs

Why Are Recent College Graduates Underemployed? University Enrollments and Labor Market Realities
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
For all the people saying, "If only he/she did not have a useless degree..."

I've got news for you...if all of the liberal arts graduates majored in "useful fields" we would have...soup-prise!...a large oversupply of people with college degrees in "useful fields".

In other words, tripling the number of engineers (or scientists, or mathematicians, etc.) produced will not magically triple the number of jobs for engineers (etc.) at currently prevailing wage rates. It would either drive down wages for people in those "useful fields" or result in unemployed/underemployed surplus college graduates with degrees in "useful fields".
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
wow. Guess I was lucky to barely avoid the .com crash AND the housing crash

Can't really argue with that.

How old are you? I'm 34 (just turned it) and I basically first tried being independent at 18/19 as the dot-com crash was happening. It sucked.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
There is an article floating around that debunks the stem shortage myth. There are far more stem degree holders than there will ever be stem jobs. But yet we want to import stem labor up drive down stem wages. Yay. Go GOP.

Didn't we talk about this already? There is a widely circulated article that only looks at current wage pressures to make the determination and, if its the same study I am thinking of, does not make any statement that 'there are far more stem degree holders than there will ever be stem jobs'. The study does nothing to project for future growth. Here is a more comprehensive study that shows that we will have a shortage:
https://cew.georgetown.edu/recovery2020

Not sure what the GOP has to do with this but Georgetown is hardly a GOP leaning institution
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
11,938
538
126
I'm a millennial with a real job who still lives at home. Why? Housing costs. Been spending the last few years squirrelling away as much cash as possible for a down payment. Banks aren't giving away the big mortgages like they used to. Been shopping around. Saw a new condo project I really liked that I could afford. About $250k for 818sq ft. Really about as good as I'm going to get, that's not in the ghetto. Not due to be finished until 2016. Keeping my ears open for good deals elsewhere. I'm also a little concerned about the resale value of apartment condos, given how overheated the Toronto market is. So it's playing the waiting game. For the record, a base, base condo is $200k out here. And it's small. Bedroom, living room, half kitchen if you're lucky. Bachelor apartments more often than not.

The other option is renting, but there's currently a shortage of rental units here. High prices. $1000/mo doesn't even guarantee you a clean and safe building any more, let alone in a clean and safe neighbourhood. So I've decided a long term investment is wiser. Believe me, my parents drive me nuts so I don't want to be there any longer. But it's all a big waiting game given how unstable the real estate market is getting in the Greater Toronto Area.

After I graduated university, I was in a bit of a rough spot. Right when the recession was peaking. Was out of work for a couple months. Got a job cleaning cars. 10.5 hour days for minimum wage. Hated it with a passion. Went back to school for more training. Was going 7 days a week at one point. Pulling 16 hour days every weekend trying to get job experience by volunteering. Did that for 2 years. Then got the job at the TV station. Right now I'm currently on day 7 of working straight due to some scheduling issues.

At home, I basically live like I'm on my own. Do my own cooking, cleaning, laundry, pay for the internet, TV, and telephone, my car, food. In lieu of rent (this was at my parents' insistence), I have a set minimum amount that I put in my house account every month. Not out partying or having a good time. Basically, every penny I don't spend goes to a down payment. So far got about $70k saved. Though some of that is for furniture. Wanted a small townhouse but those are now pushing $300k. Just gotta keep working those balls off.


Agreed. housing prices for us millenials are completely OUTRAGEOUS. sure, there are millenials who are slackers, but for someone like me (and i'm assuming you) who graduated university with a useful degree, found a job with said useful degree, it will take you at least 10 years to be able to afford a home. I live with my parents for 3 years, which allowed me to pay off my car, student loans, helped them with their house, and save up for a down payment with my wife. we could barely afford a townhouse in our area, which go for 350k. If I didnt have the option to live with my parents, i'd still be paying off my car, student loans, and paying for a POS apartment somewhere. The change in housing prices is something I think many older generations can't / don't want to see and just write off our entire generation as underemployed slackers. My wife and I also lucked out in that we graduated and got jobs right before the 2008 crash. I have a friend with an engineering degree who graduated in 2009 and it took him a year and a half to find a job.

I know the older generation will bitch and moan and tell us we need to cut out cell phone bills, cable, etc. but that doesn't even meet the order of magnitude of bills you need to get into a decent home.
it's pretty tough even for the average newly employed millenial to pay off $120K of student debt, $10K car, and then buy a home. it's possible if you're making crazy money, but it's not like it was a generation ago.
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Didn't we talk about this already? There is a widely circulated article that only looks at current wage pressures to make the determination and, if its the same study I am thinking of, does not make any statement that 'there are far more stem degree holders than there will ever be stem jobs'. The study does nothing to project for future growth. Here is a more comprehensive study that shows that we will have a shortage:
https://cew.georgetown.edu/recovery2020

Not sure what the GOP has to do with this but Georgetown is hardly a GOP leaning institution

Georgetown University: Would their organization/institution be hurt if people thought that there was an oversupply of <major offered by Georgetown> graduates?

Would Georgetown University be out millions of dollars and would administrators raking in $200k+/yr be affected by people not attending their institution?

I want to believe that educational institutions are impartial and only for the public good, but I thought the same about government. Just follow the money...
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Working at whole foods is far from EPIC FAIL.

There are a lot of "graduate degree required" jobs that are far less fulfilling and have less benefits than working at whole foods.

From a health standpoint, working a job where you stand up all day will leave you less likely to have heart disease, as sitting for extended periods is its own independent risk factor for heart disease.

Your degree that got you your desk job is LITERALLY killing you.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
For all the people saying, "If only he/she did not have a useless degree..."

I've got news for you...if all of the liberal arts graduates majored in "useful fields" we would have...soup-prise!...a large oversupply of people with college degrees in "useful fields".

In other words, tripling the number of engineers (or scientists, or mathematicians, etc.) produced will not magically triple the number of jobs for engineers (etc.) at currently prevailing wage rates. It would either drive down wages for people in those "useful fields" or result in unemployed/underemployed surplus college graduates with degrees in "useful fields".

The point is that most people who major in liberal arts fields probably shouldn't be in college to begin with. If they had an introduction into several careers in highschool, instead of being told GO TO COLLEGE OR YOU'LL BE POOR, they might have been able to pick something that held their interest for more than 2 months.

If, for instance, she'd been able to take an interior design course in high school, she might have said "this is neat, I like this" and gone to a 2-year certificate program. She'd have 4 extra years of income and 4 less years of college expenses (she went to school for 6 years, per her Linkedin profile.) And she might be doing something she enjoys that benefits society and produces wealth.

Instead, she got a largely useless high school education, went to college with no direction or useful skills, graduated college 6 years later with no useful skills and still no direction...and she wonders why she's not making any money or able to find a job?

We need to seriously rethink our primary education system (K-8) and our secondary education (9-12) to prepare kids for real life and the workforce.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
In the near future automation will have a dramatic effect on the job market. Companies that once hired many workers will only need a handful to operate the machines. To get these positions the applicant will have to be highly skilled. This is going to doom our country. Mark my word! Crimes going to increase. Unemployment will dramatically increase. People are going to become more dependent on the government, and if congress ever considers cutting back on public assistance we can expect anarchy!

How do we fix this problem and put people back to work?
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
LOL interests = work life balance. spoken like a true millennial.

Depends what her definition is. I am a millennial and my balance stops at 50hrs a week. I've found once I hit more than that, basic things like going to the gym, cleaning my house, doing yard work etc, tend to stop getting done. Instead of enjoying a peaceful weekend at home, I spent majority of the time playing catch up on shit I was too tired to do during the week.

Now if her balance is at a mere 40hours... then yeah that's kind of lazy, although not everybody has jobs that require OT. I think a lot of the time work productivity starts to go down.
 

rednas

Senior member
May 26, 2010
298
0
76
I have a degree. Yet, I work in a field and have a job which I would have even if I had never stepped foot in a college classroom. Does that make me a failure?
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Came across this today posted somewhere. Apparently it was penned in 1959 by a judge. Ironically, it's probably more applicable today then it was back then.

 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Came across this today posted somewhere. Apparently it was penned in 1959 by a judge. Ironically, it's probably more applicable today then it was back then.

Yeah, no. People have been saying this exact same shit for the last 3000 years. The cries of "todays youth are lazy" have been applied to every single generation of youth since the beginings of history.

It probably applies just as much as to the kids of 1959 as to the kids of now.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Depends what her definition is. I am a millennial and my balance stops at 50hrs a week. I've found once I hit more than that, basic things like going to the gym, cleaning my house, doing yard work etc, tend to stop getting done. Instead of enjoying a peaceful weekend at home, I spent majority of the time playing catch up on shit I was too tired to do during the week.

Now if her balance is at a mere 40hours... then yeah that's kind of lazy, although not everybody has jobs that require OT. I think a lot of the time work productivity starts to go down.

Mine is 40 hours, with the occasional few hours extra if I am near a deadline. I won't work 50+ hours consistently.
 
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