Estimated $4.5 billion was moved on bank transfer day

[crownjules]

I don't see you demonizing home buyers for fraudulently obtaining mortgages and HELOCs that they couldn't afford causing the financial crisis. There is no financial crisis without greedy home buyers. They are the source of the problem.

A few million mortgages defaulting, if the number is even that high for fraudulent applications, wouldn't have caused the systemic collapse of the economy. That was entirely Wall St's fault for betting that the housing market would rise in perpetuity and over leveraging themselves on that belief.

 

[bfdd]

A few million mortgages defaulting, if the number is even that high for fraudulent applications, wouldn't have caused the systemic collapse of the economy. That was entirely Wall St's fault for betting that the housing market would rise in perpetuity and over leveraging themselves on that belief.

... yes because the shooter isn't to blame, the one who sold him the gun is.

 

[ciba]

That's on the reserve portion deposited at the Fed. Of the $5,000. 500 are kept at the Fed as reserves, the rest is allowed to chase higher interest bearing endeavors than simply sitting with the Fed.

You're right in the sense that it is also the rate that the Fed pays banks on required reserves. The challenge with banks is finding higher yielding endeavors, as illustrated in the H.3 release (or this chart)

 

[Darwin333]

I don't see you demonizing home buyers for fraudulently obtaining mortgages and HELOCs that they couldn't afford causing the financial crisis. There is no financial crisis without greedy home buyers. They are the source of the problem.

Absolutely. If you knowingly committed fraud you should be prosecuted.

But lets be truly honest here, most of these homeowners had no idea how to defraud the banks and the banks are supposed to proceedures in place to verify what the purchaser tells them. In most cases the banks representatives told the client exactly how to lie or even wrote it in for them.

But fine, lets call them guilty too. Now that we are beyond that, lets talk about the actual source of the problem.

By far the biggest contributor to this entire mess was the big banksters taking these loans that they knew were bad, bundling them up, slapping a AAA guaranteed not to lose money rating on them, selling them to everyone and their grandma, and then leveraging them (leverage being key). One side of the deal committed fraud once with the other side being extremely complicit in the fraud and the other side committed fraud untold times which brought our economy (their words) to the brink of Armageddon (tanks in the street and all that jazz).

The difference between you and I is that I am all about going after fraud wherever it existed, you are all about excusing the fraud that completely fucked our economy and continues to do so to this day. I am willing to compromise though, lets throw some homeowners who committed fraud into jail and clawback whatever profits (HA) they have made from that fraud and lets do the exact same thing to the assholes that really profited off of the fraud, deal?


Without the banksters bundling this crap up as riskless securities there is no demand for loans guaranteed not to perform, do you understand that concept?

 

[Darwin333]

... yes because the shooter isn't to blame, the one who sold him the gun is.

They didn't just sell him the gun. They sold him the gun, gave him the alarm codes to the victims house, told them they had a million bucks in the safe and gave them the code to the safe, gave them the victims schedules, told them the best time to murder them, and then took out life insurance on the victim and then claimed they couldn't have known that would happen.

Those are the assholes you are protecting right now. I can prove it, what you got?

 

[Darwin333]

Guess what, I don't need buttsex because I can afford a hooker with my reward money my big bank gave me for being a responsible customer. She even let's me play with her special place.

LOL, the absurdly ironic thing is that you ARE the hooker and your rewards came from the buttsex they performed on you. Shrug, I am and always have been all about freedom so if you enjoy it by all means continue.

Myself, my morals will not all me to whore myself out but again you have every right to do so yourself. Enjoy.

 

[Dulanic]

LOL, the absurdly ironic thing is that you ARE the hooker and your rewards came from the buttsex they performed on you. Shrug, I am and always have been all about freedom so if you enjoy it by all means continue.

Myself, my morals will not all me to whore myself out but again you have every right to do so yourself. Enjoy.

 

[bfdd]

They didn't just sell him the gun. They sold him the gun, gave him the alarm codes to the victims house, told them they had a million bucks in the safe and gave them the code to the safe, gave them the victims schedules, told them the best time to murder them, and then took out life insurance on the victim and then claimed they couldn't have known that would happen.

Those are the assholes you are protecting right now. I can prove it, what you got?

huh? well sure it's a little more complex than that, but there is plenty of fault on the lendees. Believe me I don't think what they did was right either, but why can't they both be at fault? See I didn't make these mistakes and had nothing to do with it, so to me I am unbiased on this and I think lenders, lendees and regulators(government) are to blame. I've never said anything less.

 

[lothar]

Sorry, but how many of these silly gestures have their been? Ultimately, the will to do something meaningful comes from finding and electing people who will reconstitute Glass Steagall, require certain leverage ratios and break up the banks. Nothing else is needed in the banking sector than those 3 simple things. All of this other BS about the Fed and everything else is just that, BS. We don't need a journey or an odyssey, we need simple but bold steps to restore the financial markets.

Find me that guy and I'll vote for him. Until then this is an empty gesture and one that's rather pathetic considering the real challenges facing us.

You mean to tell me that Dodd-Frank didn't fix shit about our financial system and won't prevent another "too big to fail"?

 

[JS80]

Absolutely. If you knowingly committed fraud you should be prosecuted.

But lets be truly honest here, most of these homeowners had no idea how to defraud the banks and the banks are supposed to proceedures in place to verify what the purchaser tells them. In most cases the banks representatives told the client exactly how to lie or even wrote it in for them.

But fine, lets call them guilty too. Now that we are beyond that, lets talk about the actual source of the problem.

By far the biggest contributor to this entire mess was the big banksters taking these loans that they knew were bad, bundling them up, slapping a AAA guaranteed not to lose money rating on them, selling them to everyone and their grandma, and then leveraging them (leverage being key). One side of the deal committed fraud once with the other side being extremely complicit in the fraud and the other side committed fraud untold times which brought our economy (their words) to the brink of Armageddon (tanks in the street and all that jazz).

The difference between you and I is that I am all about going after fraud wherever it existed, you are all about excusing the fraud that completely fucked our economy and continues to do so to this day. I am willing to compromise though, lets throw some homeowners who committed fraud into jail and clawback whatever profits (HA) they have made from that fraud and lets do the exact same thing to the assholes that really profited off of the fraud, deal?


Without the banksters bundling this crap up as riskless securities there is no demand for loans guaranteed not to perform, do you understand that concept?

Bankers were producing the securities because there was demand from homeowners and to-be homeowners. Americans need only to look in the mirror for the mess - they caused it by wanting the American dream of owning a home, not the bankers. Bankers were only doing what the population demanded. Without that demand, bankers would not have created the securities.

 

[Darwin333]

Bankers were producing the securities because there was demand from homeowners and to-be homeowners. Americans need only to look in the mirror for the mess - they caused it by wanting the American dream of owning a home, not the bankers. Bankers were only doing what the population demanded. Without that demand, bankers would not have created the securities.

That doesn't give them the right to commit fraud. There is a demand for sex with young children but that doesn't mean pimping young children should be excused.

Why are you so adamant about a select few elite being above the law that you and I must abide by?

 

[Carmen813]

I don't see you demonizing home buyers for fraudulently obtaining mortgages and HELOCs that they couldn't afford causing the financial crisis. There is no financial crisis without greedy home buyers. They are the source of the problem.

There are no greedy home buyers without banks greedy enough to lend them money in order to inflate their profits. Please, there is plenty of blame to go around and the result is from our culture of greed.

 

[Darwin333]

You mean to tell me that Dodd-Frank didn't fix shit about our financial system and won't prevent another "too big to fail"?

No it won't, if this is a partisan comment I would like to know what your side has proposed? If it is not then my apologies.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Bankers were producing the securities because there was demand from homeowners and to-be homeowners. Americans need only to look in the mirror for the mess - they caused it by wanting the American dream of owning a home, not the bankers. Bankers were only doing what the population demanded. Without that demand, bankers would not have created the securities.

There was a huge demand for MBS so I don't think it's fair to say that the change was driven purely from the homeowner side. Historically in the US local and regional banks acted as a check on this because the bore the risk. Once securitization moved the risk to a third party the check was gone.

You can't place all the blame on one side of the transaction. Also consider that the way all the bailouts have been structured are much more friendly to creditors then debtors. We bailed out the banks for making bad loads but homeowners who are under water are still stuck.

 

[Darwin333]

huh? well sure it's a little more complex than that, but there is plenty of fault on the lendees. Believe me I don't think what they did was right either, but why can't they both be at fault? See I didn't make these mistakes and had nothing to do with it, so to me I am unbiased on this and I think lenders, lendees and regulators(government) are to blame. I've never said anything less.

They can, and should, all be at fault. However, one side committed a hell of a lot more crimes that had a hell of a lot more impact than the other. On top of that they ensured that we would have to cover their bad bets while the other side has largely been forced (rightfully so) to eat the consequences of their bad bets. Then on top of that, one side has largely been able to keep the profits from their untold number of bad bets, at our expense no less, while the other side mostly lost.

My point is that the blame should be proportionate to the crime and the consequences of the crimes. Without drug users there are no drug dealers but we place more blame on the dealers. We damn sure don't let the dealers keep the profits from selling drugs after we catch them.

 

[crownjules]

Bankers were producing the securities because there was demand from homeowners and to-be homeowners. Americans need only to look in the mirror for the mess - they caused it by wanting the American dream of owning a home, not the bankers. Bankers were only doing what the population demanded. Without that demand, bankers would not have created the securities.

In 2004 and again in 2005, the FBI warned of a huge rise in fraudulent mortgages by "unscrupulous professionals and criminal groups." It also said that around 80% of these were initiated by the lenders. They weren't doing the due diligence that is part of their job - ensuring that lendees are representing themselves on the applications. In many cases, they were telling them to lie so they could get another mortgage on the books and sell it off to investors.

 

[JS80]

There are no greedy home buyers without banks greedy enough to lend them money in order to inflate their profits. Please, there is plenty of blame to go around and the result is from our culture of greed.

You can demonize the drug dealers all you want, but without the users they would not exist. Blame should start from the point of origination.

 

[BudAshes]

Watch in 6 months deposits trickle back as those people who moved to CUs experience the lack of ATMs and service.

You work for a bank?

 

[BudAshes]

You can demonize the drug dealers all you want, but without the users they would not exist. Blame should start from the point of origination.

This makes no sense. The reason people ended up with houses they couldn't afford is because banks got so good at exploiting loopholes to get people loans who didn't deserve them. You obviously work for a bank of some sort and while i understand your need to to push the blame on someone else, the truth is it lies squarely at your feet. When you loan someone money it is your job to be sure that you will be able to get that money back from them. I don't loan a bum a dollar, i give him a dollar and I know I will never see him again.

 

[halik]

This makes no sense. The reason people ended up with houses they couldn't afford is because banks got so good at exploiting loopholes to get people loans who didn't deserve them. You obviously work for a bank of some sort and while i understand your need to to push the blame on someone else, the truth is it lies squarely at your feet. When you loan someone money it is your job to be sure that you will be able to get that money back from them. I don't loan a bum a dollar, i give him a dollar and I know I will never see him again.

Gov't had an explicit policy of promoting home ownership, especially in the subprime stratum. Bad things happen when policy is what makes incentives align in the same fashion.

When you loan someone money with the expectation that collateral is appreciating and there's significant investment demand for said loans and government sponsored entities are backstopping the secondary market for the loans, you'll have a different perspective on what your job is.

Stupid analogies aside, tulip manias have been happening every couple decades since the dawn of humanity. Everyone that has benefited from the bubble is at fault.

 

[JS80]

You work for a bank?

No.

 

[lothar]

No it won't, if this is a partisan comment I would like to know what your side has proposed? If it is not then my apologies.

1.) By not passing Glass-Steagall in the 1st place.
2.) By not bailing out banks.

Dodd-Frank claims that with their bill, there will no longer be "Too big to fail".
Instead of bailing out banks, we will now start bailing out derivative clearing houses.

Only a moron would assume Dodd-Frank did anything at all to fix the system.
Glass-Steagall is still there.
"Too big to fail" is still there.

Do those 3 things LegendKiller mentioned earlier and you will fix most of the problems with the financial system. Add stop bailing out banks to those 3 things and you will fix 99% of the problems.

 

[lothar]

This makes no sense. The reason people ended up with houses they couldn't afford is because banks got so good at exploiting loopholes to get people loans who didn't deserve them. You obviously work for a bank of some sort and while i understand your need to to push the blame on someone else, the truth is it lies squarely at your feet. When you loan someone money it is your job to be sure that you will be able to get that money back from them. I don't loan a bum a dollar, i give him a dollar and I know I will never see him again.

What if the money is loaned with implied or explicit government backing?
Freddie Mac, Frannie Mae, FHA loans, student loans, mortgage home interest tax deductions, mortgage capital gains tax deductions, government reducing the 50% down payment requirement that it was in the early 1980's to 0-20% today, and MANY other examples.

 

[glenn1]

Why did BofA and Wells back off from announced fee increases?

Because they learned their lesson to not announce things in advance. Next time it will be done without notice (if a fee not covered by something like Reg DD) or just buried inside an "important information about your account" statement insert that no one will read.

And actually, the banks probably aren't all that upset about those customers leaving anyway. If you haven't noticed, the banks have been trying to discretely "encourage" unprofitable clients to leave by increasing their fees, etc. The probable future state model is one where you'll pay a fee if your total relationship with the bank is less than $25k or some other figure, the days of "free checking" are numbered.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/97033/occupy-wall-street-bank-transfer-day

 

[bfdd]

They can, and should, all be at fault. However, one side committed a hell of a lot more crimes that had a hell of a lot more impact than the other. On top of that they ensured that we would have to cover their bad bets while the other side has largely been forced (rightfully so) to eat the consequences of their bad bets. Then on top of that, one side has largely been able to keep the profits from their untold number of bad bets, at our expense no less, while the other side mostly lost.

My point is that the blame should be proportionate to the crime and the consequences of the crimes. Without drug users there are no drug dealers but we place more blame on the dealers. We damn sure don't let the dealers keep the profits from selling drugs after we catch them.

Don't get me wrong, I think they should suffer as well. No bad bets should have been covered. Failures should be allowed to fail.