Ethereum GPU mining?

[MrTeal]

@Madpacket, how did setup on the H97 Anniversary go? Any luck getting 6 cards running on it?

 

[poofyhairguy]

If a Polaris can do 30+MHs at <200w I'd probably buy one.

If it can do that I will buy 5 and deal with selling everything I have currently. For AMD's sake I hope it doesn't, Polaris doesn't need the mining tax if its going to get adopted by budget TV gamers (if there is such a thing).

 

[RussianSensation]

I would hope for a good bit more than that, but we'll have to see what ends up happening. A 380 get about 20Mh/s, and a 480 will have ~30% more CUs, and about a 30% higher core clock.

I am pulling it out of thin air right now, but Polaris 10 could may not possibly even work with old drivers? Unless old drivers already have a lot of optimizations for GCN 4.0 inside, it might not even be possible to use 15.12-16.2.1. At least hopefully someone can test 1070/1080 retail cards for us, but given the anti-mining rhetoric from most NV users, we are going to need to find an open-minded 1070/1080 owner to help us get that data.

 

[Madpacket]

That would be nice, but I am scared with the combo of the 256 memory bus and an unoptimized mining program and driver (I bet it won't be able to use the 15.12 in the folder trick) it might be sub 20. We will see, I still plan to get one in a month if only for actual gaming use in my Mini ITX gaming rig since my main gaming machine is a mini mining farm right now. I am so tired of the 750 ti, $200 Polaris 10 would be a great upgrade.

I finally got the reference 290 to behave. I put on some new paste, put the fan on 79%, and put the machine on its side with a box fan next to it. In that configuration it will do 1155 stable all day which basically makes it almost equal to the 390x. I like that the blower seems hardy even if it is loud, the Sapphire 7970 Ghz my friend was letting my borrow had a fan literally rip in half while mining. Luckily some zip ties and a 120mm fan fixed that for now.

I also decided to blow some Best Buy reward points I was sitting on and I picked up a 2GB 370 from there that will eventually go in my desktop hackintosh. Now that is in my "gaming" rig with the 390x and (hanging on the side via riser) the half broken 7970. Overall that setup works pretty well because it's cool enough that I can overclock the 390x and the 370, which is something I couldn't do when the 7970 was actually in the case. Now total between my three machines (ref 290, 280x, 7970, 370, 390x) I have broken the 100 hashrate barrier which is a good feeling.

Crappy forgot about the driver. Yeah the 256GB bus will hold it back that's why I'm putting it a little bit ahead of the 380x performance wise due to the clock speeds.

 

[Headfoot]

Power here isn't exactly cheap here so thats a risk. Bigger risk is limited used market. ebay isn't really the thing here and with tolls and shipping cost not worth it. Most stuff is sold on "local ebay". Selling 6 GPUs of the same time will lead to lower prices because of high availability. Not kidding. And people are stupid here, AMD has much lower resale value.

But regardless, I'm not that into tinkering around that much to get the stuff up and running and build additional rigs. If the card pays for itself fine but for speculation I just buy ETH with cash (albeit price IMHO is too high now due to much of ETH being sucked into DAO).

Sounds like you just made a great case for buying local used AMD gear to mine with, then your resale will be very closely aligned with the market

 

[Tumaras]

I would think the RX 480 should end up somewhere around 35 MH/s, based on the early leaked benchmarks of it between the 390 and 390x. So ~35 MH/s at 150w for $199 or $229 will definitely rock the ether market.

The catch being it's going to be tough to tell what this will do to ether prices as a ton more cheap mining power pours in, on top of driving down used prices on 380s/380s/290s, etc. Ether prices are so volatile and tough to predict anyway, and this is just another major wrench thrown in. It will be a gamble for sure on whether to invest in more mining to try to cash in, knowing you can get burned if ether prices drop like a rock once truckloads of 480s start churning away.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I would think the RX 480 should end up somewhere around 35 MH/s, based on the early leaked benchmarks of it between the 390 and 390x.

I don't know where you are getting 35 from. My overclocked 390x does about 32-33 and there is almost no way Polaris will top that. The mining software is crap really, if it took advantage of newer GPUs the Fury would kill in mining when in reality it's very close to a 390x. Just like console ports all the mining software we have prefer GCN 1.1.

The catch being it's going to be tough to tell what this will do to ether prices as a ton more cheap mining power pours in, on top of driving down used prices on 380s/380s/290s, etc. Ether prices are so volatile and tough to predict anyway, and this is just another major wrench thrown in. It will be a gamble for sure on whether to invest in more mining to try to cash in, knowing you can get burned if ether prices drop like a rock once truckloads of 480s start churning away.

That is why I bought yet another card when I saw Polaris doesn't come till the end of the month. I assume if it is a decent miner and there is a lot of supply by September the difficulty curve will be more like a difficulty wall. I want to get while the getting is good.

 

[EightySix Four]

Anyone else have some weird issues with mining on Windows 10 with a headless box? AMD's drivers are pretty iffy on giving me access to the 2nd/3rd graphics card. If there's no monitor plugged in the driver often says the card is "Disabled" and launching claymore (or any OpenCL app) only gives me the primary card.

 

[Avalon]

Been reading this thread for a while and thinking about getting back into the alt mining game, not just specifically ethereum.

I recall seeing here that people are expecting a dramatic drop in production of ethereum for miners at some point in the future. Can someone summarize what's up with that for me real quick?

Appreciate it!

 

[reb0rn]

Ethereum is controlled by one entity, it has nothing to do with bitcoin philosophy
POS period will start as soon they decide its the time and they have milked miners most they could.
At the start there was never the plan to mine so long, but as I sad its controlled by one entity holding most ICO premine and they can do anything they like

anyway from polaris I don`t expect more then 25Mhs due to 256bit memory bus

 

[Feld]

Anyone else have some weird issues with mining on Windows 10 with a headless box? AMD's drivers are pretty iffy on giving me access to the 2nd/3rd graphics card. If there's no monitor plugged in the driver often says the card is "Disabled" and launching claymore (or any OpenCL app) only gives me the primary card.

That's odd. I've had zero issues like that running a headless Windows 10 machine with 4 GPUs that mines automatically on bootup from a batch file. Do you have the same problem if you use ethminer instead of claymore and explicitly state the number of threads?

 

[IntelUser2000]

The mining software is crap really, if it took advantage of newer GPUs the Fury would kill in mining when in reality it's very close to a 390x. Just like console ports all the mining software we have prefer GCN 1.1.

"Crap" is a strong word. It's just not built for mining, that's all. Gaming requirements differ from mining requirements.

Anyway I would assume 20-25MH/s as well. I'm not sure about the exact relationship between memory width and SP with throughput. However, the 512-bit wide interface on the 290/290X looks to be what helps with its high hash rates.

Why is HBM different despite 4096-bit width? It's like the effect of dual channel on single-threaded applications. Single threaded applications are nowadays bound by latency, not bandwidth. It could just be that the way HBM is designed is very different from GDDR5. Perhaps a 1024-bit or 2048-bit GDDR5 would have brought us benefits. Or perhaps there's just a limit on how far of an impact memory makes for hash rates. Just like single threaded performance for CPUs.*

In fact, at certain rates, it behaves almost like single threaded application on a CPU. You can easily increase your hash rates by increasing clock speeds. Perhaps a best hash rate card would have been a 390X on 14nm @ Pascal-like 1.6-1.7GHz.

 

[EightySix Four]

That's odd. I've had zero issues like that running a headless Windows 10 machine with 4 GPUs that mines automatically on bootup from a batch file. Do you have the same problem if you use ethminer instead of claymore and explicitly state the number of threads?

Yes, same issue. Without a monitor plugged in OpenCL does not offer the other devices to any OpenCL app - claymore, Ethminer, or anything else. I've done everything short of a Windows reinstall at this point, may just grab a cheap LCD to stick back there with it to deal with the hassle.

 

[MrTeal]

"Crap" is a strong word. It's just not built for mining, that's all. Gaming requirements differ from mining requirements.

Anyway I would assume 20-25MH/s as well. I'm not sure about the exact relationship between memory width and SP with throughput. However, the 512-bit wide interface on the 290/290X looks to be what helps with its high hash rates.

Why is HBM different despite 4096-bit width? It's like the effect of dual channel on single-threaded applications. Single threaded applications are nowadays bound by latency, not bandwidth. It could just be that the way HBM is designed is very different from GDDR5. Perhaps a 1024-bit or 2048-bit GDDR5 would have brought us benefits. Or perhaps there's just a limit on how far of an impact memory makes for hash rates. Just like single threaded performance for CPUs.*

In fact, at certain rates, it behaves almost like single threaded application on a CPU. You can easily increase your hash rates by increasing clock speeds. Perhaps a best hash rate card would have been a 390X on 14nm @ Pascal-like 1.6-1.7GHz.

It would be interesting to look into it more. I really don't understand well what all contributes to the issues that the Fiji cards have.
Memory obviously seems to play a part, but there's a couple weird issues. For one, mining speed doesn't seem to scale with memory speed. For another, at the same clock speed a 7950 hashes at about the same rate as a 380, despite Tahiti having a bus 50% wider. Just looking at older cards, memory doesn't seem that important. By the same token, at similar clocks Hawaii hashes about 50% faster than Tahiti/Tonga which is the same as the ratio of their shaders. Hashing also scales really well with clock speed. It would appear that Eth mining behaves similarly to BTC mining (which is strictly SP*clock based), but then why does Fiji do so poorly?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Clock speed scaling is quite obvious. It scales everything except the memory.

Perhaps its only memory bottlenecked with some configurations. Also driver seems to play a part. The mininghardware list is really weird.

I'd like to play around with an APU to see how it fares. Man, now I am almost regretting going with Intel since I can't test it.

 

[Tumaras]

Anyway I would assume 20-25MH/s as well. I'm not sure about the exact relationship between memory width and SP with throughput. However, the 512-bit wide interface on the 290/290X looks to be what helps with its high hash rates.

Good point, I wasn't thinking about the memory bus reduction. You're probably right on 20-25 with that in mind. If that turns out to be correct these would be meh for mining since a 380 for $40+ less new (already, and likely to drop once the 480's are out) or less used can do low 20's already. The exception being if your power costs are exceptionally high where you're at, since 300->150w would be a modest savings.

 

[EightySix Four]

Clock speed scaling is quite obvious. It scales everything except the memory.

Perhaps its only memory bottlenecked with some configurations. Also driver seems to play a part. The mininghardware list is really weird.

I'd like to play around with an APU to see how it fares. Man, now I am almost regretting going with Intel since I can't test it.

My 390s scale exactly with core clock, my 380 scales exactly with memory clock. Just depends on where that particular card is bottlenecked.

 

[Chiropteran]

I bought a 390x. I am not expecting it to fully pay for itself through mining, but I figure mining will at the least give me a significant enough rebate to make it a good deal even with the pending launch of polaris.

Conveniently, I paid with bitcoins, since newegg accepts them.

Do any online stores except ethereum directly, or do you pretty much need to exchange before you can spend it?

 

[MrTeal]

OK good to know. You went the extra mile so I would just make the most of what you have. I'm staying away from these Sapphire cards, seems to be tons of refurbs on Newegg but without proper voltage controls not really worth it. If the reference blower type come back in stock I'll pick a bunch of them up instead. Milk Crate Miner 3 and maybe 4 on the way. Switched from AMD FX99 platform to Z170 for power savings and should be easier to resell once done. Going to try my first board this week (Core i3-6100 + AsRock Z170 Pro4s). Only five PCIe slots, well technically six if you use the m.2 adapter but I usually only put 4 cards in each milk crate miner anyway. Purchased a new EVGA Superflower Leaded 1200W Platinum to replace my 1KW Platinum as I'm pulling 1030W from the wall now since switching mining to Claymore.

Speaking of claymore. I can confirm my hashing rates seem a little more stable so far but I'm sure if the extra power consumption is worth the hashes. Will run for a week to get a better idea across 6 miners.

Looking like Polaris is going to suck at mining if the rumours are true, so good idea to keep eyes out for cheap 390's or cheap Fury Nano's. Used 290's still the best deal if you can find ones with voltage controls.

Not sure if you're still wanting more of the ref models, but Newegg's eBay store has the refurbs back in stock for $259 shipped again.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sapphire-Rad...-DP-PCI-Express-Graphics-Card-C-/172212926048

 

[poofyhairguy]

Do any online stores except ethereum directly, or do you pretty much need to exchange before you can spend it?

You need to exchange it. Eth is really new. The wallet software isn't even finished yet.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The mining software is crap really,

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn it. The way it works right now, it works well with old(er) GPU designs that almost anyone can afford new or used. If it were optimized, it might favor the wealthier buyers who can afford multiple Fury/FuryX cards. Or worse, it might present an open invitation to FPGAs and/or ASICs.

The way it is now, it's fairly democratic in how it works. The only objection I have is that it does poorly with newer builds of AMD's drivers.

I'd like to play around with an APU to see how it fares.

Not terribly well. My 7700k will mine if I set the frame buffer to max (2Gb) and use the 2Gb card tweaks to let it load the entire DAG, but the most I've ever gotten out of my 384 shaders @ 1028 mhz is about 2.5 MH/s. It's really quite pathetic given that the iGPU burns about 40W while mining.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn it. The way it works right now, it works well with old(er) GPU designs that almost anyone can afford new or used. If it were optimized, it might favor the wealthier buyers who can afford multiple Fury/FuryX cards. Or worse, it might present an open invitation to FPGAs and/or ASICs.

Crap might have been strong, but it is wasting a lot of power left on the table. It was originally designed for a 7870 and that is fine, but it should scale to Fury size better. Hawaii gets a pass being a double 7870 basically, but almost every other card isn't being as efficient with use which is wasteful. I have read the developers blog posts about the Eco evils of mining ( aka why move away from it at some point) and I think to myself "a lot of that could be improve with better scaling mining software." Claymore helps a lot with Tahiti, but what about Nvidia? Plus the 7870 might be a trap long term if the DAG gets bigger than 2GB. I have a secondary plan for mine.

The way it is now, it's fairly democratic in how it works. The only objection I have is that it does poorly with newer builds of AMD's drivers.

I guess so, but ETH mining is really benefitted by a larger hash rate so you end up needing a pile of money for GPUs anyway. I do admit the 7870 I bought (called a 370) kicks butt for mining. 14.1 OCed running cool for under 200w. That is better $/MH and MH/Watt than my Tahitis. It is basically even with Hawaii, well maybe a little worse $/MH if counting the loud reference card. And holy crap that loud card can mine, I am getting 31! on it OCed. That is within 2-3 of my 390x OCed. There is no point to the X I have learned. Gonna sell that bad boy before the mining bubble pop, but I might keep the reference card and underclock it as a desktop card to reward it for being such a good deal.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Well, the point is that the way things are now, casual miners can still do okay with some fairly inexpensive hardware. 2Gb cards should last through December with the right environment variables and client settings. Difficulty is going to adjust along with price. As it stands, even small-timers with no more than 1-2 cards can mine out a few eth for fun and (minor) profit.

A bunch of mining hardware will come offline in December by necessity, which will force some of the small timers out mining with older hardware (Pitcairn etc).

 

[IntelUser2000]

Not terribly well. My 7700k will mine if I set the frame buffer to max (2Gb) and use the 2Gb card tweaks to let it load the entire DAG, but the most I've ever gotten out of my 384 shaders @ 1028 mhz is about 2.5 MH/s. It's really quite pathetic given that the iGPU burns about 40W while mining.

That's decent. You'd increase your hash rates by 2.5MH/s for 40W increase in costs. At 0.1 usd/KW where I live that would be a net profit. You can think of it like how people think of Claymore's dual miner. The decred part is an effective "reducing" of your power use. Also with the Intel setup(not the one in sig) I can't do anything. When you buy the setup for the first time you have to pay for components that doesn't contribute to it. With an AMD setup the CPU will at least pay part of the cost.

What does it do at stock? I wonder how a A4 7300 or A6 7400K would do? 2/3rd compute units will do better than 2/3rd hash rates. 1/2 units will do better than 1/2 as well.

 

[MrTeal]

Since you're talking about motherboards I just bought one these for a new mining rig I'm putting together.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157564

Added a cheap pentium to go with it.

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Celeron...psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00

Hard to beat this combo for a base mining platform. I was going to go the Skylake route but it would cost at least double for a similar setup.

I just bought an H97 since NE has them as their Shell Shocker. I've heard a few horror stories though, any luck getting multiple cards working with this?