Ethernet cables

[pstylesss]

How important is it, really, to follow the standards? It's not like the wire under each jacket color is a little different... as long as they match at both ends, right?

Someone set me straight.

 

[hanoverphist]

each pair is twisted a bit differently. as long as you split the inner pairs, i bet it would work fine. usually. back in win98SE days you could put any 8 pins in a row, match them on the other side and it would work fine. XP changed that, and made me have to actually remember o/s-o-g/s-bl-bl/s-g-br/s-br

i follow the standards because i need to guarantee it will work on the system i make for my customers. if it doesnt work and my order is different, then they will blame the nonstandard cables.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
each pair is twisted a bit differently. as long as you split the inner pairs, i bet it would work fine. usually. back in win98SE days you could put any 8 pins in a row, match them on the other side and it would work fine. XP changed that, and made me have to actually remember o/s-o-g/s-bl-bl/s-g-br/s-br

i follow the standards because i need to guarantee it will work on the system i make for my customers. if it doesnt work and my order is different, then they will blame the nonstandard cables.

what does the s mean in your example? isn't it usally white and a color and a solid color?

 

[jtvang125]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
each pair is twisted a bit differently. as long as you split the inner pairs, i bet it would work fine. usually. back in win98SE days you could put any 8 pins in a row, match them on the other side and it would work fine. XP changed that, and made me have to actually remember o/s-o-g/s-bl-bl/s-g-br/s-br

i follow the standards because i need to guarantee it will work on the system i make for my customers. if it doesnt work and my order is different, then they will blame the nonstandard cables.

what does the s mean in your example? isn't it usally white and a color and a solid color?

Solid?

 

[spidey07]

If you follow the standards the cable adheres to verifiable and reliable electrical characteristics. If you have access to a cable scanner you can actually certify the link (patch cable, jack, horizontal cable, jack, patch cable) and can guarantee maximum performance and reliability. If you don't have access to such a scanner you don't really know if you have any category rating...you've got category nothing. This is why making patch cables are highly discouraged because most all of the time they fail a category certification test.

Also as mentioned the twists are different per the standard for a reason so you need to keep the color either 568a or 568b, 568b is used in the US. Category 6 cable and gigabit/10 gigabit ethernet needs this variation in twist and counter twist down the length of the cable.

Also if you just match color on each end you wind up what is called a "split pair". That pair of wires needs to be in the correct pin position or else you get very unusual performance and just weird stuff.

So yes, it's REALLY important to properly follow the standards if you want a network instead of a net-kinda-works.

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
each pair is twisted a bit differently. as long as you split the inner pairs, i bet it would work fine. usually. back in win98SE days you could put any 8 pins in a row, match them on the other side and it would work fine. XP changed that, and made me have to actually remember o/s-o-g/s-bl-bl/s-g-br/s-br

i follow the standards because i need to guarantee it will work on the system i make for my customers. if it doesnt work and my order is different, then they will blame the nonstandard cables.

what does the s mean in your example? isn't it usally white and a color and a solid color?

Probably means striped.

 

[yelo333]

I think you need to keep the twisted pairs together or you may get interference with longer cables. It's hard enough to make a cable that performs to spec; why make it harder on yourself?

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: spidey07
If you follow the standards the cable adheres to verifiable and reliable electrical characteristics. If you have access to a cable scanner you can actually certify the link (patch cable, jack, horizontal cable, jack, patch cable) and can guarantee maximum performance and reliability. If you don't have access to such a scanner you don't really know if you have any category rating...you've got category nothing. This is why making patch cables are highly discouraged because most all of the time they fail a category certification test.

Also as mentioned the twists are different per the standard for a reason so you need to keep the color either 568a or 568b, 568b is used in the US. Category 6 cable and gigabit/10 gigabit ethernet needs this variation in twist and counter twist down the length of the cable.

Also if you just match color on each end you wind up what is called a "split pair". That pair of wires needs to be in the correct pin position or else you get very unusual performance and just weird stuff.

So yes, it's REALLY important to properly follow the standards if you want a network instead of a net-kinda-works.

Thanks! Can you point me in the direction of some good tools, testers, etc?

What about for phone wiring with cat5 cable?

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
each pair is twisted a bit differently. as long as you split the inner pairs, i bet it would work fine. usually. back in win98SE days you could put any 8 pins in a row, match them on the other side and it would work fine. XP changed that, and made me have to actually remember o/s-o-g/s-bl-bl/s-g-br/s-br

i follow the standards because i need to guarantee it will work on the system i make for my customers. if it doesnt work and my order is different, then they will blame the nonstandard cables.

what does the s mean in your example? isn't it usally white and a color and a solid color?

the pairs are orange, green, blue and brown. each pair has a solid and a striped return. so

o = orange (solid)
o/s = orange stripe (return)

and so on. some cable manufacturers reverse the return and make it color with a white stripe, but i dont generally buy that. every box ive bought (bulk for work) has had the color as a stripe.

 

[hanoverphist]

new! with linkies!

http://www.ablecables.com.au/568avb.htm

basic tester

http://www.cdw.com/shop/produc...efault.aspx?EDC=594071

i like fluke

 

[torpid]

Wow, I'm old. The last time I made a cable was when it didn't matter as long as the colors matched up.

 

[hanoverphist]

i dont make patch cables, ever since they dropped in price due to interwebz availability. i cant make em for as cheap as i buy them. i do still do all the in-wall custom stuff, as well as patched for servers if they are an odd length tho.

 

[Kabrinski]

Originally posted by: torpid
Wow, I'm old. The last time I made a cable was when it didn't matter as long as the colors matched up.

It still doesn't, so long as you match the colors from one end to the other for straight through or switch the proper wires for cross-over. I wouldn't recommend it for professional use due to standards, but if you are making a few new cables for your home PC, it doesn't matter.

I made a couple cables not long ago like this and they worked fine.

Originally posted by: yelo333
I think you need to keep the twisted pairs together or you may get interference with longer cables. It's hard enough to make a cable that performs to spec; why make it harder on yourself?

This I would recommend just to make sure interference stays at a minimum. But if you went Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl (for example) on both ends, it will work fine.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Kabrinski
This I would recommend just to make sure interference stays at a minimum. But if you went Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl (for example) on both ends, it will work fine.

That's a split pair. It may work but performance will be degraded and weird stuff can happen (crosstalk). The pairs MUST stay together on pins:

1-2
3-6
4-5
7-8

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: torpid
Wow, I'm old. The last time I made a cable was when it didn't matter as long as the colors matched up.

It's always mattered (for data).

It actually matters more for cat5 and before.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: torpid
Wow, I'm old. The last time I made a cable was when it didn't matter as long as the colors matched up.

It still doesn't, so long as you match the colors from one end to the other for straight through or switch the proper wires for cross-over. I wouldn't recommend it for professional use due to standards, but if you are making a few new cables for your home PC, it doesn't matter.

I made a couple cables not long ago like this and they worked fine.

Originally posted by: yelo333
I think you need to keep the twisted pairs together or you may get interference with longer cables. It's hard enough to make a cable that performs to spec; why make it harder on yourself?

This I would recommend just to make sure interference stays at a minimum. But if you went Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl (for example) on both ends, it will work fine.

Please stop posting on matters such as these, you are totally clueless.

"Working" doesn't mean you're getting optimum throughput. For perspective, would you like the mechanic that fixes your (you, wife's, parent's) brakes to do it right, or "probably" good enough?

The color pattern you describe will suck for any full duplex, and especially suck for 100 meg full duplex, by virtue of the split pair on pins 3&6 jacking up the crosstalk in the cable to seriously ugly levels.

So please, just chill and read; avoid the urge to respond to something you know absolutely nothing about.

 

[Walking in Circles]

There is no such thing as an Ethernet cable.

 

[alfa147x]

wow a good size thread and nobody told him that he posted in the wrong section ?? ??????

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: ScottMac

The color pattern you describe will suck for any full duplex, and especially suck for 100 meg full duplex, by virtue of the split pair on pins 3&6 jacking up the crosstalk in the cable to seriously ugly levels.

Can you explain how this works or at least link to something? I always thought it didn't matter what order the colors were in, as long as the twisted pairs stayed twisted and matched up correctly at the far end of the cable.

Is there something special about each wire that the colors dictate?

 

[melchoir]

White orange, orange, white green, blue, white blue, green, white brown, brown, Is what I use for 100mbit patch.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: ScottMac

The color pattern you describe will suck for any full duplex, and especially suck for 100 meg full duplex, by virtue of the split pair on pins 3&6 jacking up the crosstalk in the cable to seriously ugly levels.

Can you explain how this works or at least link to something? I always thought it didn't matter what order the colors were in, as long as the twisted pairs stayed twisted and matched up correctly at the far end of the cable.

Is there something special about each wire that the colors dictate?

the different twists in the cable make the pairs resonate at different frequencies. the 1-2(orange), 3-6(green), 4-5(blue), 7-8(brown) thing is to separate the signals enough to not allow the voltage to step on the other signal. if you put these in line with each other, there is a greater chance of signal interruption and crosstalk. this wasnt so much an issue on the old 10m hubs i used to use back in the late 90s and such, but once i got into using the 100m systems it became a nightmare to keep the systems talking. thats when i had to comply with standards and do it the right way. i was just being uninformed and lazy anyway, so it was an inevitable change.

 

[imported_Devine]

Let me try my hand at this... You have 8 wires in a ethernet cable, NIC's only use pins 1, 2, 3, and 6. Therefore if you go Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl like Kabrinski mentioned your brown pair is going to be fine but then you're going to be sending signals on G and WO which is a no no hence why the standard has the same pair on 3 and 6 instead of different colors. That's why you see some premade ethernet cables with just 4 wires instead of your standard 8.

 

[spidey07]

Devine, don't forget that 1000 Base-t, gig ethernet uses all 4 pairs. Again, if standards are followed not a big deal...that's what they are there for.

Also a bit of trivia - there really isn't such a thing as a "gigabit ethernet crossover cable"

 

[Kabrinski]

Originally posted by: ScottMac

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: torpid
Wow, I'm old. The last time I made a cable was when it didn't matter as long as the colors matched up.

It still doesn't, so long as you match the colors from one end to the other for straight through or switch the proper wires for cross-over. I wouldn't recommend it for professional use due to standards, but if you are making a few new cables for your home PC, it doesn't matter.

I made a couple cables not long ago like this and they worked fine.

Originally posted by: yelo333
I think you need to keep the twisted pairs together or you may get interference with longer cables. It's hard enough to make a cable that performs to spec; why make it harder on yourself?

This I would recommend just to make sure interference stays at a minimum. But if you went Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl (for example) on both ends, it will work fine.

Please stop posting on matters such as these, you are totally clueless.

"Working" doesn't mean you're getting optimum throughput. For perspective, would you like the mechanic that fixes your (you, wife's, parent's) brakes to do it right, or "probably" good enough?

The color pattern you describe will suck for any full duplex, and especially suck for 100 meg full duplex, by virtue of the split pair on pins 3&6 jacking up the crosstalk in the cable to seriously ugly levels.

So please, just chill and read; avoid the urge to respond to something you know absolutely nothing about.

Don't be an idiot and don't tell me to "chill". There was nothing argumentative or angry in my post, so there is nothing to chill over. And when have I posted in matters such as this that would elicit such a response? So why don't you chill?

"Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl (for example)" - this was an EXAMPLE. Examples don't have to be precise to get a point across. That point is, it doesn't matter if you follow the "correct" color pattern, so long as the pins are correct. In this case, wire is wire, it doesn't care. I know those aren't in the right pin order, and in this case I don't care.

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Kabrinski
This I would recommend just to make sure interference stays at a minimum. But if you went Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl (for example) on both ends, it will work fine.

That's a split pair. It may work but performance will be degraded and weird stuff can happen (crosstalk). The pairs MUST stay together on pins:

1-2
3-6
4-5
7-8

See above for the part about the example.

 

[spidey07]

Kabrinski,

You have to realize plenty of people read the threads and may not contribute. By spreading patently false information others may believe it to be true and suffer tons of headache because of it. What you posted is probably one of the #1 problems with cabling made or installed by those that don't know any better and it needed to be corrected.