Ethernet cables

[Kabrinski]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Kabrinski,

You have to realize plenty of people read the threads and may not contribute. By spreading patently false information others may believe it to be true and suffer tons of headache because of it. What you posted is probably one of the #1 problems with cabling made or installed by those that don't know any better and it needed to be corrected.

And I should not have to pander to those who refuse to comprehend or learn. If someone uses something for an example, or to illustrate, or model something, those that may or may not know anything about it need to take the time to either understand or learn about what is being discussed. If they refuse to do so and screw something up, that's on them.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: spidey07
Kabrinski,

You have to realize plenty of people read the threads and may not contribute. By spreading patently false information others may believe it to be true and suffer tons of headache because of it. What you posted is probably one of the #1 problems with cabling made or installed by those that don't know any better and it needed to be corrected.

And I should not have to pander to those who refuse to comprehend or learn. If someone uses something for an example, or to illustrate, or model something, those that may or may not know anything about it need to take the time to either understand or learn about what is being discussed. If they refuse to do so and screw something up, that's on them.

Dont argue with the spider overlord, the guy has more of my respect than any other. His network knowledge is just mind boggling. If he says you are wrong, suck it up. You are wrong

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: spidey07
Kabrinski,

You have to realize plenty of people read the threads and may not contribute. By spreading patently false information others may believe it to be true and suffer tons of headache because of it. What you posted is probably one of the #1 problems with cabling made or installed by those that don't know any better and it needed to be corrected.

And I should not have to pander to those who refuse to comprehend or learn. If someone uses something for an example, or to illustrate, or model something, those that may or may not know anything about it need to take the time to either understand or learn about what is being discussed. If they refuse to do so and screw something up, that's on them.

ironing

 

[Kabrinski]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: spidey07
Kabrinski,

You have to realize plenty of people read the threads and may not contribute. By spreading patently false information others may believe it to be true and suffer tons of headache because of it. What you posted is probably one of the #1 problems with cabling made or installed by those that don't know any better and it needed to be corrected.

And I should not have to pander to those who refuse to comprehend or learn. If someone uses something for an example, or to illustrate, or model something, those that may or may not know anything about it need to take the time to either understand or learn about what is being discussed. If they refuse to do so and screw something up, that's on them.

Dont argue with the spider overlord, the guy has more of my respect than any other. His network knowledge is just mind boggling. If he says you are wrong, suck it up. You are wrong

I never said he doesn't know what he was talking about, nor did I even imply it. I don't how in depth what his knowledge of the topic is, so I am not about to say what he does or does not know. In his case, I think he only missed the point of what I was saying, not that he didn't know what he was talking about. There is a big difference.

And I already stated that I know the order I stated earlier was wrong, but again, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE. It doesn't have to be precise. I could recite the proper order and make cables in my sleep if I wanted to. But for the example, it was that order because I didn't care.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: spidey07
Kabrinski,

You have to realize plenty of people read the threads and may not contribute. By spreading patently false information others may believe it to be true and suffer tons of headache because of it. What you posted is probably one of the #1 problems with cabling made or installed by those that don't know any better and it needed to be corrected.

And I should not have to pander to those who refuse to comprehend or learn. If someone uses something for an example, or to illustrate, or model something, those that may or may not know anything about it need to take the time to either understand or learn about what is being discussed. If they refuse to do so and screw something up, that's on them.

Dont argue with the spider overlord, the guy has more of my respect than any other. His network knowledge is just mind boggling. If he says you are wrong, suck it up. You are wrong

I never said he doesn't know what he was talking about, nor did I even imply it. I don't how in depth what his knowledge of the topic is, so I am not about to say what he does or does not know. In his case, I think he only missed the point of what I was saying, not that he didn't know what he was talking about. There is a big difference.

And I already stated that I know the order I stated earlier was wrong, but again, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE. It doesn't have to be precise. I could recite the proper order and make cables in my sleep if I wanted to. But for the example, it was that order because I didn't care.

And his issue was a valid one as well. Don't spread wrong info, it just hurts the newbies that have to learn to differentiate between someone who knows their stuff and someone just running their jaws.

 

[TwiceOver]

It isn't as important as people think. In the example given WAY above. I use green first rather than orange. This would be the "B" standard? I don't really know, last time I checked electrons were color blind even though I have been in situations that seem they aren't.

Also, you can technically and actually have two runs on one cable. I do this with the link to my garage. 4 pins go into the house from modem to router, the other 4 pins come back from the house to a switch.

Whatever works. I'm sure some guy some where came up with the idea that if you take 1 3 5 6 you will have that much less cross talk. But then again he completely omitted 7 8. If you wanted to eliminate cross talk all together then you would probably pick one from each pair knowing you only need 4 wires.

 

[spidey07]

Kabrinski,

What you're failing to get is there are EIA/TIA standards that dictate how they affect each other. This is somewhat important for 100 Base-T, EXTREMELY important for 1000 Base-T. You can't just go willy nilly and use whatever pair you feel like wherever you feel like. The cabling twists and spacing of the pairs follow those characteristics which is used by active equipment. By not adhering to the standards you do NOT have category rated cabling and your results are not guaranteed nor should they be. The #1, by all means, cause of any networking problems are the physical layer (cabling) and not adhering to appropriate standards.

The whole topic of the OP was "should I follow standards" and just matching color on each end. The plain and simple answer is yes you should, if you don't you roll the dice.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
It isn't as important as people think. In the example given WAY above. I use green first rather than orange. This would be the "B" standard? I don't really know, last time I checked electrons were color blind even though I have been in situations that seem they aren't.

Also, you can technically and actually have two runs on one cable. I do this with the link to my garage. 4 pins go into the house from modem to router, the other 4 pins come back from the house to a switch.

Whatever works. I'm sure some guy some where came up with the idea that if you take 1 3 5 6 you will have that much less cross talk. But then again he completely omitted 7 8. If you wanted to eliminate cross talk all together then you would probably pick one from each pair knowing you only need 4 wires.

What spidey was referring to is that this is EXTREMELY poor practice. There is a greater incidence of cross talk and interferance as a result of configurations like this. The pattern is there for a reason.

I understand 100% that it will "work" but a skateboard will technically get your 50 miles to school, but isnt the most intelligent thing to do.

This is usually fine for a small home network where noone but your wife cares if speeds and reliability arent there, but for the real world where runs can go 100 meters this is bad practice. It just causes weird shit.

 

[TwiceOver]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
It isn't as important as people think. In the example given WAY above. I use green first rather than orange. This would be the "B" standard? I don't really know, last time I checked electrons were color blind even though I have been in situations that seem they aren't.

Also, you can technically and actually have two runs on one cable. I do this with the link to my garage. 4 pins go into the house from modem to router, the other 4 pins come back from the house to a switch.

Whatever works. I'm sure some guy some where came up with the idea that if you take 1 3 5 6 you will have that much less cross talk. But then again he completely omitted 7 8. If you wanted to eliminate cross talk all together then you would probably pick one from each pair knowing you only need 4 wires.

What spidey was referring to is that this is EXTREMELY poor practice. There is a greater incidence of cross talk and interferance as a result of configurations like this. The pattern is there for a reason.

I understand 100% that it will "work" but a skateboard will technically get your 50 miles to school, but isnt the most intelligent thing to do.

This is usually fine for a small home network where noone but your wife cares if speeds and reliability arent there, but for the real world where runs can go 100 meters this is bad practice. It just causes weird shit.

Well yeah, if you are doing a 300m run (about the max of cat5) you should probably adhere to some standards. Now if you are going from one cube to the next, nobody (even electrons) will care. Also more than likely you are running to a wall plate or a structured cable run of some sort. That probably won't matter either. Now if the run from plate to the "Way Back" is f'd up then yeah... You'll run into "Weird Shit"

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
It isn't as important as people think. In the example given WAY above. I use green first rather than orange. This would be the "B" standard? I don't really know, last time I checked electrons were color blind even though I have been in situations that seem they aren't.

Also, you can technically and actually have two runs on one cable. I do this with the link to my garage. 4 pins go into the house from modem to router, the other 4 pins come back from the house to a switch.

Whatever works. I'm sure some guy some where came up with the idea that if you take 1 3 5 6 you will have that much less cross talk. But then again he completely omitted 7 8. If you wanted to eliminate cross talk all together then you would probably pick one from each pair knowing you only need 4 wires.

What spidey was referring to is that this is EXTREMELY poor practice. There is a greater incidence of cross talk and interferance as a result of configurations like this. The pattern is there for a reason.

I understand 100% that it will "work" but a skateboard will technically get your 50 miles to school, but isnt the most intelligent thing to do.

This is usually fine for a small home network where noone but your wife cares if speeds and reliability arent there, but for the real world where runs can go 100 meters this is bad practice. It just causes weird shit.

Well yeah, if you are doing a 300m run (about the max of cat5) you should probably adhere to some standards. Now if you are going from one cube to the next, nobody (even electrons) will care. Also more than likely you are running to a wall plate or a structured cable run of some sort. That probably won't matter either. Now if the run from plate to the "Way Back" is f'd up then yeah... You'll run into "Weird Shit"

Right, but the point he was trying to make is if you always adhere to the standards, weird shit is less likely to happen. And you also want to make sure some new person doesnt come in and take bad knowledge as gospel because they simply believed the wrong person. It spreads misinformation and causes everyone in the field headaches

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Well yeah, if you are doing a 300m run (about the max of cat5) you should probably adhere to some standards. Now if you are going from one cube to the next, nobody (even electrons) will care. Also more than likely you are running to a wall plate or a structured cable run of some sort. That probably won't matter either. Now if the run from plate to the "Way Back" is f'd up then yeah... You'll run into "Weird Shit"

300 meters you say?

Standards. Follow them or be damned to weird shit. Don't fuck with the physical layer. DO NOT FUCK WITH THE PHYSICAL LAYER.

 

[Kabrinski]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Kabrinski,

What you're failing to get is there are EIA/TIA standards that dictate how they affect each other. This is somewhat important for 100 Base-T, EXTREMELY important for 1000 Base-T. You can't just go willy nilly and use whatever pair you feel like wherever you feel like. The cabling twists and spacing of the pairs follow those characteristics which is used by active equipment. By not adhering to the standards you do NOT have category rated cabling and your results are not guaranteed nor should they be. The #1, by all means, cause of any networking problems are the physical layer (cabling) and not adhering to appropriate standards.

The whole topic of the OP was "should I follow standards" and just matching color on each end. The plain and simple answer is yes you should, if you don't you roll the dice.

Yes you should, especially in a profession environment where everything is becoming so much more defendant on having to have reliable connections; part of which is keeping a standard across the board; (and I expressed to some extent before), but in reality, color of the wire does not matter. They could be yellow, purple, black, and pink. As long as the wires match the correct pins, it doesn't matter. That's what I am saying. And I have tested cables that match the "correct" color order and those that don't (but still match the proper pin configuration) and there was no difference in performance.

If the OP is just wanting to know for his own personal use, I say it doesn't matter what order the colors are in, so long as both the ends match the pin configuration. If he wants to know for trying to get into a professional environment, then he should try to go with the standard all the time.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Kabrinski

Originally posted by: spidey07
Kabrinski,

What you're failing to get is there are EIA/TIA standards that dictate how they affect each other. This is somewhat important for 100 Base-T, EXTREMELY important for 1000 Base-T. You can't just go willy nilly and use whatever pair you feel like wherever you feel like. The cabling twists and spacing of the pairs follow those characteristics which is used by active equipment. By not adhering to the standards you do NOT have category rated cabling and your results are not guaranteed nor should they be. The #1, by all means, cause of any networking problems are the physical layer (cabling) and not adhering to appropriate standards.

The whole topic of the OP was "should I follow standards" and just matching color on each end. The plain and simple answer is yes you should, if you don't you roll the dice.

Yes you should, especially in a profession environment where everything is becoming so much more defendant on having to have reliable connections; part of which is keeping a standard across the board; (and I expressed to some extent before), but in reality, color of the wire does not matter. They could be yellow, purple, black, and pink. As long as the wires match the correct pins, it doesn't matter. That's what I am saying. And I have tested cables that match the "correct" color order and those that don't (but still match the proper pin configuration) and there was no difference in performance.

If the OP is just wanting to know for his own personal use, I say it doesn't matter what order the colors are in, so long as both the ends match the pin configuration. If he wants to know for trying to get into a professional environment, then he should try to go with the standard all the time.

Not exactly, as spidey explained in such intricate detail, the spacing and twists of each color in relation to the others makes a difference

 

[TwiceOver]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Well yeah, if you are doing a 300m run (about the max of cat5) you should probably adhere to some standards. Now if you are going from one cube to the next, nobody (even electrons) will care. Also more than likely you are running to a wall plate or a structured cable run of some sort. That probably won't matter either. Now if the run from plate to the "Way Back" is f'd up then yeah... You'll run into "Weird Shit"

300 meters you say?

Standards. Follow them or be damned to weird shit. Don't fuck with the physical layer. DO NOT FUCK WITH THE PHYSICAL LAYER.

Even though you are mocking me... I want that shirt!

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Well yeah, if you are doing a 300m run (about the max of cat5) you should probably adhere to some standards. Now if you are going from one cube to the next, nobody (even electrons) will care. Also more than likely you are running to a wall plate or a structured cable run of some sort. That probably won't matter either. Now if the run from plate to the "Way Back" is f'd up then yeah... You'll run into "Weird Shit"

300 meters you say?

Standards. Follow them or be damned to weird shit. Don't fuck with the physical layer. DO NOT FUCK WITH THE PHYSICAL LAYER.

Yeah the new cat 37 cable has a max distance of 300 meters, up from the 328 feet of CAT 5

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
Even though you are mocking me... I want that shirt!

LOL!

Picture Fight Club rules, sorry for the language but it is fitting.

Rule #1 You do NOT fuck with the physical layer
Rule #2 Obey the first rule
Rule #3 You fucked with the physical layer didn't you?

 

[lokiju]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
new! with linkies!

http://www.ablecables.com.au/568avb.htm

basic tester

http://www.cdw.com/shop/produc...efault.aspx?EDC=594071

i like fluke

I just got this tester from CDW last week.

Works well also.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
It isn't as important as people think. In the example given WAY above. I use green first rather than orange. This would be the "B" standard? I don't really know, last time I checked electrons were color blind even though I have been in situations that seem they aren't.

Also, you can technically and actually have two runs on one cable. I do this with the link to my garage. 4 pins go into the house from modem to router, the other 4 pins come back from the house to a switch.

Whatever works. I'm sure some guy some where came up with the idea that if you take 1 3 5 6 you will have that much less cross talk. But then again he completely omitted 7 8. If you wanted to eliminate cross talk all together then you would probably pick one from each pair knowing you only need 4 wires.

What spidey was referring to is that this is EXTREMELY poor practice. There is a greater incidence of cross talk and interferance as a result of configurations like this. The pattern is there for a reason.

I understand 100% that it will "work" but a skateboard will technically get your 50 miles to school, but isnt the most intelligent thing to do.

This is usually fine for a small home network where noone but your wife cares if speeds and reliability arent there, but for the real world where runs can go 100 meters this is bad practice. It just causes weird shit.

Well yeah, if you are doing a 300m run (about the max of cat5) you should probably adhere to some standards. Now if you are going from one cube to the next, nobody (even electrons) will care. Also more than likely you are running to a wall plate or a structured cable run of some sort. That probably won't matter either. Now if the run from plate to the "Way Back" is f'd up then yeah... You'll run into "Weird Shit"

100 meters max for any Category rated copper (90 Meters Solid core "in the wall" with 5 meters max of stranded "jumper cordage" on either or both ends.

Solid versus stranded is important, because stranded has a much higher loss, and solid doesn't flex much before it breaks.

Connectors are important too, there are four kinds, two for flat (untwisted, like for phones) and two for round cable ... one is for stranded, the other is for solid conductor. IN the round cable connectors, there are rated and unrated. If you use an unrated connector, you have an unrated cable. The span takes on the characteristics of the lowest rated component.

It's actually MORE important to follow the spec for shorter runs, as Near-End Crosstalk (NeXT) is likely to occur and degrade the signal if not properly terminated.

Regarding "Electrons don't know color" ... no, but manufacturers of cheap cabling do. They expect the standards to be followed and engineer the cable to fit the least expensive street price. Before Cat5e (which qualifies all four pair) only the orange and green pairs were set for "high speed data" ... running it on orange or brown pair, even in the right positions, was a screwed cable, because the pair weren't conditioned for it.

5e and above qualify all four pair, but there are still some conditioning features that make the proper positioning very important.

Regarding using multiple applications over a single four-pair cable (phone & data, or data & data) : It degrades the performance significantly, and is against the spec. If the other application happens to be a phoneline, the 90-120VAC ring voltage can blow the receiver of the NIC on the other pairs, and the analog signal of a call-in-progress will screw the data on the other pair (bad crosstalk). For DSL, it'll drive your data rate into the weeds.
Very Bad Idea.

Regarding :
"Don't be an idiot and don't tell me to "chill". There was nothing argumentative or angry in my post, so there is nothing to chill over. And when have I posted in matters such as this that would elicit such a response? So why don't you chill?

"Br, WBr, G, WG, O, WO, Bl, WBl (for example)" - this was an EXAMPLE. Examples don't have to be precise to get a point across. That point is, it doesn't matter if you follow the "correct" color pattern, so long as the pins are correct. In this case, wire is wire, it doesn't care. I know those aren't in the right pin order, and in this case I don't care. "

Please, just stop posting. you're talking out of your ass. There are exactly two examples: EIA/TIA 568a and EIA/TIA 568b. That's the point, it **********=> DOES <=********* matter. so ... go away, stop ... you're totally wrong.

I'm not being argumentative or angry, I'm trying to stop you from infecting the other n00bs with your totally wrong knowledge.

I didn't say you were a bad person, I asked you to stop talking about something you know nothing about.

Cabling is the foundation of the network. If the cabling isn't right, nothing else matters. You can put the hottest Banana 5000 Uber Machines on your network, if the cabling is not right, it won't perform, and you've wasted (or encouraged other people to waste) cash and set yourself (or others) up for grief & frustration when stuff "kinda" works.

There's more to it than plastic-coated wires, there's actually some serious engineering involved. It's much more than continuity and polarity too. That's why some people get paid the big bucks, they know the difference.

 

[alkemyst]

The reason it's important to follow standards is so if an end gets damaged another tech can repair it without having to necessarily find the other end of the cable.