ethnicity vs. nationality

[xyyz]

what are your views on these two terms?

i feel that hypenated terms are inaccurate. i'm pretty sleepy so i'll try and be as clear as i can.

for example, someone who is an american citizen who calls themselves say.... Indian-American. isn't this is misnomer? i mean Indian denotes nationality, there is no single indian ethnicity. india is conglomorate of hundreds of ethnicites. they are american because they are an Ameican national. so that is accurate, but to say that they are Indian, well that's not because they are not an Indian citizen.

do you guys know what i am saying? i was trying a civil debate with some people, but it just became really nasty and insult ridden on their part when i tried to elaborate on my point. i'd like some more thought, so maybe i can say something that might have greater pentration power.

 

[Ameesh]

ethnicity and nationality are two different things for example (all things being equal) i could be born and raised in china and been naturalized to become a US Citizen. my ethnicioty would be chinese but i would be an american national.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't know what to say, maybe because I'm still pretty sleepy, or your post needed more penetration power.

 

[krwell]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
ethnicity and nationality are two different things for example (all things being equal) i could be born and raised in china and been naturalized to become a US Citizen. my ethnicioty would be chinese but i would be an american national.

But what about people born and raised in the US, but their grandparents were born and raised in China... Would they really be Chinese, or Chinese-American?

 

[xyyz]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
ethnicity and nationality are two different things for example (all things being equal) i could be born and raised in china and been naturalized to become a US Citizen. my ethnicioty would be chinese but i would be an american national.

but see... again... this is sorta like the example i used. while i am no expert on china, there isn't a single chinese ethnicity. i dunno if cantoneese and mandrin are different ethnic groups... but i'm sure as you go inland and to the south and to the north... there are differences in ethnicities. therefore it wouldln't be accurate to say that you are ethnically chinese becasue there is no single chinese ethnicity... only a chinese nationality.

see what i'm saying?

 

[UlricT]

or how about if you are born and brought up in India, but your parents are american? What then???

 

[ragazzo]

when confused, use "racial background".

 

[UlricT]

I dont think "racial background " itself would explain what he is asking.....

 

[xyyz]

bloody hell i need to sleep...

but here take my example. i guess i can call myself pakistani-american. but i dont, because i don't feel this is correct. i am ethnically punjabi. i'm a natural born US citizen, and i have no nationalistic ties to the US. unfortuantely (or fortunately, depending on your view) punjab was split durring the partition. this only serves to futher complicate things as you will see.

so when someone asks what i am... i don't say that i am pakistani-american eventhough this would be the easy thing to say. i usually go off into a long schpeel about how i was born here which means i am american (which is usually the time most people stop paying attention) but that ethnically, i am punjabi,which is a region that is split between indian and pakistan in the northern eastern part of pakistan and the north western part of india.... however that my family comes from the western pakistani region.

yeah i know it's longwinded as hell and something simple like "punjabi-american" but then some people think that i'n Sikh, which i'm not. so i feel that a small geography lesson isn't harmful to anyone.

see the thing is that pakistan while it has a national language is a mixture or a few ethnic groups with their distinct culture, food and language. there is no core pakistani ethnicity... just like there is no single american ethnicity. so using the term "pakistani" to denote ethnic makeup is wrong.

does this better explain what i'm trying to debate?

 

[xyyz]

Originally posted by: UlricT
or how about if you are born and brought up in India, but your parents are american? What then???

what if you were born here and the parents are born in india... what then?

 

[4Lclovergirl]

your ethnic background, is what your from, such as I am Irish, scottish, italian and native american (aka mutt) that would be my ethnicity.

My nationality is the nation that I was born in, the united states. So I am an American. Putting XXX-american I think is stupid. Just say what you are, and if you are here, then it's assumer you are an american.

Again, I personally don't put alot of stock into either. I am the whole good is good, bad is bad, I like you if I do, and don't if I don't. What you look like means nothing. Especially in the world of the internet these days. You can say what you look like all you want, but it's what you have to say that really matters. (my rant on the subject )

 

[xyyz]

alright... good point about the racial background.

elaborate on racial background juxaposed with ethnic background... how are these two different?

 

[xyyz]

Originally posted by: 4Lclovergirl
Again, I personally don't put alot of stock into either. I am the whole good is good, bad is bad, I like you if I do, and don't if I don't. What you look like means nothing. Especially in the world of the internet these days. You can say what you look like all you want, but it's what you have to say that really matters. (my rant on the subject )

see this totally rules... but the problem is that i have to deal with many closed-minded individuals who... and yes i know don't care what they think... but when the start talking alot of rubbish and then it comes back to you... then it kinda stings... but if i say i'm american... then i am immediately accused of being "whitewashed" and not being ashamed of my ethnic heritige and the whole sell-out garbage ensues and what not.

damn you people for replying... it's almsot 11am and i have yet to finish some work and sleep!!!! ;p

seriously though... much obliged for the replies and the good points.

 

[Sid59]

i always thought that ethnicity denotes Of or relating to a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage. (taken from the dictionary) .. pretty clear cut.

Nationality is where you show national support.


In your Indian-American example, India is a conglomerate of many different groups but they identify their ethnic group because of similiar culture, religion and so on, of people from the same area.

Sounds like you are complaining about the generic term of 'ethnicity'. By your example, you want to say India is a generic term and you want people to identify with their city or family name.


Hey, i call myself American, but isn't that weird because there are 50 states and each has their own distinct accents and perhaps cultural views. Is American generic? Should i call myself Californian? Even then, the cultural views from the San Francisco area differ from southern california and so on?

 

[ragazzo]

Originally posted by: xyyz
alright... good point about the racial background.

elaborate on racial background juxaposed with ethnic background... how are these two different?

They are synonymous. If you were born in the states, you're an American by nationality. On surveys, applications, etc, when asked for background information (racial background/ethnic background), you enter "Asian", for example. There's no option for "American", but there is one for "White".

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: xyyz they are american because they are an Ameican national.

nah, the US is a multi-national country. the nations don't have very set identities like they did in say, yugoslavia, or the eastern empire, but they exist.

 

[Woodie]

And what would be wrong with saying "I'm Punjab-American"? (other than confusing people or leading to an interesting cultural/knowledge exchange).

FWIW, you could certainly say, "I'm from a Punjabi family." (?)

As far as India or China are concerned, while you are technically correct that there are many ethnic groups within each country, as far as the listener is concerned, "India" works pretty well. They may or may not realize that there are two (?)predominant ethnic groups. They also may not care.

Define yourself how you like, people will most likely take you at face value: are you of Indian background or Punjabi? or Hindu? or Muslim? or ...

 

[Marshallj]

What if your religion is also considered an ethnic group?

For instance, if you're Jewish, you may just be a convert to Judaism, or you might be an ethnic Jew. There's even Jewish food, like Jewish Apple Cake. Surely the cake itself has no religion, but it's a cultural or ethnic food.

 

[Anubis]

ok here goes. People who use terms liek Africian American, Italian american, Indian American,....... whatever should all be shot. your not both dumbass. you either african or american not both. if you were born in the USA your an AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!! plain and fukin simple.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
ok here goes. People who use terms liek Africian American, Italian american, Indian American,....... whatever should all be shot. your not both dumbass. you either african or american not both. if you were born in the USA your an AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!! plain and fukin simple.

So your answer to this is that anyone who expresses any sort of identification with any ethnic group should be shot? That's very stupid.

 

[Marshallj]

I think plain white people should start calling themselves "European Americans" to catch onto this craze.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
ok here goes. People who use terms liek Africian American, Italian american, Indian American,....... whatever should all be shot. your not both dumbass. you either african or american not both. if you were born in the USA your an AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!! plain and fukin simple.

So your answer to this is that anyone who expresses any sort of identification with any ethnic group should be shot? That's very stupid.

Got that right :|

 

[xyyz]

Originally posted by: Sid59
i always thought that ethnicity denotes Of or relating to a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage. (taken from the dictionary) .. pretty clear cut.

Nationality is where you show national support.

you've repeated my argument... so we are on the same wavelenght.

In your Indian-American example, India is a conglomerate of many different groups but they identify their ethnic group because of similiar culture, religion and so on, of people from the same area.

again, repetition of what i have said... i dunno if you are agreeing with me... or thinknig i was saying something different. if it's the latter, you need to re-read my statement.

Sounds like you are complaining about the generic term of 'ethnicity'. By your example, you want to say India is a generic term and you want people to identify with their city or family name.

first of all noone is complaining. maybe you outta look that word up too... ;p

i am saying that IMHO, in my example, one should not use the term Indian to describe their ethnicity because it is inaccurate.

Hey, i call myself American, but isn't that weird because there are 50 states and each has their own distinct accents and perhaps cultural views. Is American generic? Should i call myself Californian? Even then, the cultural views from the San Francisco area differ from southern california and so on?

but here's the thing... american identifies nationality... not ethnic makeup.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Sid59
Hey, i call myself American, but isn't that weird because there are 50 states and each has their own distinct accents and perhaps cultural views. Is American generic? Should i call myself Californian? Even then, the cultural views from the San Francisco area differ from southern california and so on?

people used to identify themselves by their state first. that was antebellum though.

 

[GasX]

I am an English American and it should bother you.

I have two passports.