Europe Is Baffled by the U.S. Supreme Court

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manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
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Inevitably these discussions turn into slippery slope arguments which even the supreme court got into the act of this week.


I wish a state would institute a pure free market system where sick people are left to their own devices if they don't have any level of insurance like that Tennessee town that let the house burn down. I want to see the public reaction.

lets see how it works.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
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So you're saying that you would be fine if Obamacare required that "You must buy fairly-priced health insurance from a government-sponsored, universal health-care plan?" Is this your point? I didn't think so.

The only reason Obamacare didn't get rid of "greedy companies" is that conservatives insist on a profit-based health-care system for America. Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Yes that is exactly my point. Obamacare should have instituted government health insurance. But thanks to Joe Lieberman, we couldn't even get a public option.
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
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If anyone should be kicked to the curb, let it be US Big Pharma. They have literally become Joseph Mengele's wet dream.

By using the word "literally" you are saying that you know what Mengele's wet dreams were about. So, how do you have such knowledge of Mengele's wet dreams?
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
2
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Anyone who has spent time in northern European countries knows that life is simply better there. They are statistically happier with better work-life balance...and health care. I am not agreeing that Obamacare is the way, not in the slightest, but we do have a lot to learn from our European allies.

their demographics works in their favor
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
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What's wrong with an employer mandate? Hawaii has one and 8% uninsured. That's even though it's a weak mandate that only applies to workers at 20+ hrs which employers take advantage of.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
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What's wrong with an employer mandate? Hawaii has one and 8% uninsured. That's even though it's a weak mandate that only applies to workers at 20+ hrs which employers take advantage of.
Because tying health insurance to employment is one of the biggest structural problems with the American insurance market. That's a big part of why the individual market is so dysfunctional in so many states. We need LESS connection between health insurance and employment status, not more. Some constructive first steps would have been giving equal tax treatment to all insurance premiums, opening up HSAs to all (making them essentially non-expiring FSAs), mandating most preferred payer pricing (i.e. ending price discrimination, so individual plans and uninsured self-paying customers pay the same as large group plans.), mandating price publication (at least for service providers of a certain minimum size). Also, giving employees the option to take their employer's contribution and shop for their own insurance if they don't like the employer's offerings. (This would have spared us of the completely pointless mandatory contraception hubbub. In fact, this would invalidate the "need" for pretty much all coverage mandates - meaning service mandates, not referring to mandates that people get insurance.)

These are all very VERY simple changes that could have been made to drastically improve the private system. There are a few more changes needed to bring us closer to a good system, but I'm not here to replace a many thousand page POS law with a single forum post. It would take at least three posts to do it justice. The point is that PPACA completely missed the point in many ways. To bandy it about as the only sensible alternative to a socialized system is moronic. PPACA takes some of the structural problems of our current system and makes them worse. Yes, socialized care would be better than PPACA, but there are private systems that would also be far better than PPACA as well.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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What's wrong with an employer mandate? Hawaii has one and 8% uninsured. That's even though it's a weak mandate that only applies to workers at 20+ hrs which employers take advantage of.

States are allowed to do it, the Fed Gov is not.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
Europeans are baffled by soap and water and regular showers, no surprise the Constitution confuses them.

And apparently your mother was baffled about not drinking during pregnancy...

No insults or personal attacks.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
Scalia is right, I think... IF Government can mandate health coverage they could mandate eating broccoli and isn't that exactly what government ought to be able to do?

As NPR pointed out the broccoli analogy would really only be valid if large parts of the country didn't pay for broccoli but then consumed tens of billions of dollars of broccoli at other people's expense.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Good thing NPR did not try to say anything about transportation then. Those who say the Fed Gov can force you to buy health insurance also must say the Fed Gov can force you to buy a monthly bus pass.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
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I have friends in Canada, the UK, and Norway who have had issues with their contry's healthcare systems. Quite frankly, I'll take our flawed system over theirs any day. And it's our health insurance that's messed up, not our health care.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,276
9,359
146
Good thing NPR did not try to say anything about transportation then. Those who say the Fed Gov can force you to buy health insurance also must say the Fed Gov can force you to buy a monthly bus pass.

What about auto insurance? Drivers are forced to buy it, for the very same reason as the health insurance mandate.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Alas, someone has to pay for that right. I would prefer to keep the "right" to not be forced to pay for someone else's healthcare

you have no such "right" you already are paying for someone elses healthcare.


and what the fuck is your avatar? it looks like a closeup of a clit.
 
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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
I have friends in Canada, the UK, and Norway who have had issues with their contry's healthcare systems. Quite frankly, I'll take our flawed system over theirs any day. And it's our health insurance that's messed up, not our health care.

thats funny, i have friends in canada and the UK who have no issues with their health care system. they love it and quite frankly i would too. we pay more in taxes (local, state, federal combined) than they do and what do we get? a few wars, a few thousand of our people dead, no telling how many dead in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,622
2,189
126
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
What about auto insurance? Drivers are forced to buy it, for the very same reason as the health insurance mandate.

Auto insurance is mandated by state law as a condition to exercise the privilege of operating a motor vehicle. Anyone that does not wish to purchase auto insurance can do so by not owning and operating a motor vehicle on public highways. This is the same premise as implied consent for alcohol testing when operating a motor vehicle you agree to by obtaining a drivers license from the state.
 
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