Europe: Shining light of tolerance

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
It's nice to see that Europeans tolerate all nationalities and religions . . . except for one, of course.

Fury as academics are sacked for being Israeli

A British academic has sparked worldwide protests after sacking two scholars from her highly respected international journals because they are Israeli.

Mona Baker, a professor at the University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology (UMIST), admitted yesterday that she had dismissed Dr Miriam Shlesinger and Prof Gideon Toury because of their nationality.

Despite a storm of complaints raised by her action, Prof Baker stood by her decision, telling The Telegraph: "I deplore the Israeli state. Miriam knew that was how I felt and that they would have to go because of the current situation."

Prof Baker asked Dr Shlesinger and Prof Toury to resign from the boards of two academic journals she owns, after signing a website petition last month calling for academics to boycott Israel. When they refused to resign she sacked them.

The dismissals raised no public opposition from within British universities. International academics, however, led by Prof Stephen Greenblatt, a world-renowned Shakespeare scholar at Harvard University, have now condemned the decision and called on British academics to stand up for intellectual freedom.

Prof Greenblatt, who flew to England last night to collect an honorary degree from London University, said that Prof Baker's actions were "repellent", "dangerous" and "intellectually and morally bankrupt".

He described any policy of singling out a group for collective punishment as "grotesque". He added: "Excluding scholars because of the passports that they carry or because of their skin colour, religion or political party, corrupts the integrity of intellectual work."

Both of the sacked scholars had worked for the periodicals for three years. Dr Shlesinger, who enjoyed a friendship with Prof Baker and was even a guest at her house in Manchester, worked for the editorial board of The Translator. Prof Toury, who teaches at Tel Aviv University, held an honorary advisory role at Translation Studies Abstracts.

Dr Shlesinger, a respected American-born academic at the Bar-Ilan University near Tel Aviv, is also a former chairman of Amnesty International in Israel and has criticised her country's policies in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Prof Baker, who is the director of the centre for translation and intercultural studies at UMIST, was unrepentant, however. Although the boards of the journals remained split over the dismissals, Prof Baker said: "I am not against Israeli nationals per se; it is Israeli institutions as part of the Israeli state which I absolutely deplore.

She said that her actions were "my interpretation of what a boycott of Israel means". Prof Baker added: "Many people in Europe have signed a boycott against Israel. Israel has gone beyond just war crimes.


It is horrific what is going on there. Many of us would like to talk about it as some kind of Holocaust which the world will eventually wake up to, much too late, of course, as they did with the last one."

She conceded, however, that the pair would not have been sacked had they lived in Britain and severed their ties with Israeli institutions.

The petition that Prof Baker signed claims that Israel should be boycotted because it is "racist." Prof Baker, who refused to disclose where she was born, claimed that her actions were supported by a growing number of academics across Britain and in Germany. She alleged that since the sackings she had been the victim of a hate campaign.

"My husband and I receive hate mail every day, up to 50 [letters] a day, some of it extremely obscene," she said. "I can't read it out it is so obscene and very threatening. It is also sent to my university, to my vice-chancellor and to some of my colleagues, and they threaten people who want to stay on the board. The Americans are the worst offenders.

"There is a large intimidation machine out there which is waiting to intimidate anyone that it doesn't approve of."


In an open letter to Prof Baker, however, Prof Greenblatt, the president of the Modern Language Association of America, described the "chilling shadow" cast by her actions. "An attack on cultural co-operation, with a particular group singled out for collective punishment violates the essential spirit of scholarly freedom and the pursuit of truth," he wrote.

"The pursuit of knowledge does not suddenly come to a halt at national borders. This does not mean that serious scholars must be indifferent to the world's murderous struggles, but it does mean that they are committed to an ongoing, frank conversation . . . [that] often includes passionate disagreement."

The letter is understood to have the backing of other senior academics at Harvard. Following calls from The Telegraph, a number of leading academics in Britain lent their voice to Prof Greenblatt's condemnation.

Francis Robinson, a professor of history at London University, said: "Whatever anyone feels about Israel, this is absolutely appalling. Certainly there are strong feelings, not often spoken but nevertheless strongly felt, shared by the majority of British liberal intellectuals about the problems with Israel. Nonetheless, this sounds dreadful. It runs counter to the very principles of academic freedom."

Prof Greenblatt's intervention was welcomed by Lord Janner, the chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust. He said that the sackings set a worrying precedent: "This is disgraceful and dangerous. You should no more sack an Israeli academic for his nationality than you should a Palestinian in the same situation.

"I do not buy this argument that, just because there are more fee-paying Arab students at UMIST and elsewhere, their views should prevail. In every university in the UK today there are problems between the two groups. They must try to insulate themselves from what is happening in the Middle East or else you are going to get the most terrible conflicts seeping into our university campuses."

Prof John Garside, the vice-chancellor of UMIST, distanced himself from the debate. Even though Prof Baker uses UMIST's logo in her promotional material for the journals, he said: "The position of UMIST is that the two journals Prof Baker is involved with have nothing to do with UMIST.

"These are activities that she is involved with in her own time. What happens on those journals and the editorial policy on those journals are entirely a matter for those journals. It's an issue that we are dealing with internally and not something I want to make any public statement about at this stage."


A spokesman for the Israeli embassy said: "We think the Palestinian cause is not helped in any way by people trying to shut down those who communicate across boundaries through dialogue and the exchange of ideas. It's the rejection of the legitimacy of the state of Israel itself which lies at the core of the Israeli-Arab conflict."

 

HappyPuppy

Lifer
Apr 5, 2001
16,997
2
71
Would somebody please tell me what it is that the Europeans want the Israelis to do? Do they want them to line up ten abreast and march into the Mediterranean? Or, maybe, cook themselves in ovens? Oh, wait, Europeans helped them do that once before, didn't they?

The only solution the Euros suggest is for the Israelis to quit defending themselves. The result of that action would be annihilation.

 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
"It is horrific what is going on there. Many of us would like to talk about it as some kind of Holocaust which the world will eventually wake up to, much too late, of course, as they did with the last one."

Sadly, i think that many Europeans secretly hope that's the case, regardless of the reality of the situation. They think that will finally allow them to throw the monkey of the real Holocaust off their backs, by pointing to Israel and saying, "stop picking on us, look at how Israel treats the Palestinians, those damn Jews are just as evil as the Nazis were!"
 

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Would somebody please tell me what it is that the Europeans want the Israelis to do? Do they want them to line up ten abreast and march into the Mediterranean? Or, maybe, cook themselves in ovens? Oh, wait, Europeans helped them do that once before, didn't they?

The only solution the Euros suggest is for the Israelis to quit defending themselves. The result of that action would be annihilation.
That too would "raise no public opposition from within British universities."
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
It's about time we unite with our brothers to the north and invade Europe.

France goes first.
 

Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
10,358
5
0
Originally posted by: MacBaine
It's about time we unite with our brothers to the north and invade Europe.

France goes first.

France surrendered 2 weeks ago. A Canadian tourist scared the French Prime Minister by his ability to speak French. The Prime Minister panicked thinking the Canadian must be a spy sent from the USA and surrendered.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
this has more to do with how we as human beings are than where we live in the world
 

HappyPuppy

Lifer
Apr 5, 2001
16,997
2
71
___________________________________________________________

France surrendered 2 weeks ago. A Canadian tourist scared the French Prime Minister by his ability to speak French. The Prime Minister panicked thinking the Canadian must be a spy sent from the USA, and surrendered.

____________________________________________________________

I hate it when I blow an entire swallow of beer out through my nose. Sheeiit, it burns!
 

Jimmyjammer

Member
Apr 30, 2002
141
0
0
Originally posted by: glenn1
"It is horrific what is going on there. Many of us would like to talk about it as some kind of Holocaust which the world will eventually wake up to, much too late, of course, as they did with the last one."

Sadly, i think that many Europeans secretly hope that's the case, regardless of the reality of the situation. They think that will finally allow them to throw the monkey of the real Holocaust off their backs, by pointing to Israel and saying, "stop picking on us, look at how Israel treats the Palestinians, those damn Jews are just as evil as the Nazis were!"


Oh please! The majority of Europeans don't feel any guilt for the holocaust. Why should they? It's akin to saying that all American school kids feel guilt for what the two nutters in Colombine did. Why should Europe feel guilty about what one country did, over 50 years ago when they obviously disagreed with that country enough to fight it.

Many of the early zionists pointed to the Balfour agreement as a reason for the recognition of an Israeli state, Balfour was British, but how could that be? All Europeans want Israel gone because they hate jews and Israel right? Please.



 

Kilgor

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
3,292
0
0
Oh how sad sounds like a leftist getting mad because 2 leftist didn't get left enough.
 

AZGamer

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,545
0
0
Finally, some logical action recognizing Israel for the terrorist state that it is. Now, will US universities have the guts to follow suit? I can only hope so.
 

snow patrol

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2000
8,377
0
76
This is merely a case of one prejudiced individual. Yet certain people seem to see this as a good enough reason to bring out a barrage of anti-European sentiment. Ridiculous.

And as for what Glenn said about Europe having to feel guilty about the Holocaust...I'm actually in shock that someone could say something so unreasonable and nonsensical.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: AZGamer
Finally, some logical action recognizing Israel for the terrorist state that it is. Now, will US universities have the guts to follow suit? I can only hope so.


Thankfully most of our universities are smarter than them and even more importantly, smarter than you. Assgamer, how fitting. Maybe you could explain to us how firing them is going to change one thing in Israel.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,477
16,120
146
Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer
Originally posted by: glenn1
"It is horrific what is going on there. Many of us would like to talk about it as some kind of Holocaust which the world will eventually wake up to, much too late, of course, as they did with the last one."

Sadly, i think that many Europeans secretly hope that's the case, regardless of the reality of the situation. They think that will finally allow them to throw the monkey of the real Holocaust off their backs, by pointing to Israel and saying, "stop picking on us, look at how Israel treats the Palestinians, those damn Jews are just as evil as the Nazis were!"


Oh please! The majority of Europeans don't feel any guilt for the holocaust. Why should they? It's akin to saying that all American school kids feel guilt for what the two nutters in Colombine did. Why should Europe feel guilty about what one country did, over 50 years ago when they obviously disagreed with that country enough to fight it.

Many of the early zionists pointed to the Balfour agreement as a reason for the recognition of an Israeli state, Balfour was British, but how could that be? All Europeans want Israel gone because they hate jews and Israel right? Please.

Get this perfectly straight: No European countries fought Germany because of it's treatment of Jews. Only because they didn't want to be/already were invaded. Of the countries that were invaded by Germany, Germany had NO PROBLEM finding tons of local help in rounding up Jews for the death camps.

So don't even try acting as if Europe battled with Germany to help the Jews. Had Germany not invaded Poland and started WWII, there wouldn't be a Jew left in Germany and the entire world wouldn't have given two sh!ts about it.
 

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: snow patrol
This is merely a case of one prejudiced individual. Yet certain people seem to see this as a good enough reason to bring out a barrage of anti-European sentiment. Ridiculous.
Maybe you missed something:

"The dismissals raised no public opposition from within British universities." I.e. they agree with the firings.

"Francis Robinson, a professor of history at London University, said: 'Whatever anyone feels about Israel, this is absolutely appalling. Certainly there are strong feelings, not often spoken but nevertheless strongly felt, shared by the majority of British liberal intellectuals about the problems with Israel. Nonetheless, this sounds dreadful. It runs counter to the very principles of academic freedom.' " I.e. it wasn't wrong to do this per se, it was just an issue of "academic freedom."

"Prof John Garside, the vice-chancellor of UMIST, distanced himself from the debate. Even though Prof Baker uses UMIST's logo in her promotional material for the journals, he said: "The position of UMIST is that the two journals Prof Baker is involved with have nothing to do with UMIST.
'These are activities that she is involved with in her own time. What happens on those journals and the editorial policy on those journals are entirely a matter for those journals. It's an issue that we are dealing with internally and not something I want to make any public statement about at this stage.' " I.e. whether I agree with the firings or not, which I probably do, I am to chickenshit to do a damn thing about them.

 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: Scipionix
Originally posted by: Czar
this has more to do with how we as human beings are than where we live in the world
Uhh, what?
How people react to the world. Something alike to this is happening all over the world, then I'm not talking about Israelis, but minorities in general.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,477
16,120
146
Originally posted by: AZGamer
Finally, some logical action recognizing Israel for the terrorist state that it is. Now, will US universities have the guts to follow suit? I can only hope so.



 

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: Scipionix
Originally posted by: Czar
this has more to do with how we as human beings are than where we live in the world
Uhh, what?
How people react to the world. Something alike to this is happening all over the world, then I'm not talking about Israelis, but minorities in general.
Then what ARE you talking about?
 
Aug 10, 2001
10,420
2
0
Originally posted by: AZGamer
Finally, some logical action recognizing Israel for the terrorist state that it is. Now, will US universities have the guts to follow suit? I can only hope so.
Yeah, damn those Israelis for wanting to go to pizzerias without having their limbs blown off their bodies!
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Scipionix
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: Scipionix
Originally posted by: Czar
this has more to do with how we as human beings are than where we live in the world
Uhh, what?
How people react to the world. Something alike to this is happening all over the world, then I'm not talking about Israelis, but minorities in general.
Then what ARE you talking about?

You have to understand something Scipionix. If this had happened in the US or Israel, Czar would have been all over us or them. But since this happened in Europe/England Czar will do his best to make it look not so bad. Of course if we (Americans ) do that he's outraged. You have to understand Czar's MO when you're dealing with him because his posts are very one-sided.

 

Jimmyjammer

Member
Apr 30, 2002
141
0
0
Get this perfectly straight: No European countries fought Germany because of it's treatment of Jews. Only because they didn't want to be/already were invaded. Of the countries that were invaded by Germany, Germany had NO PROBLEM finding tons of local help in rounding up Jews for the death camps.

So don't even try acting as if Europe battled with Germany to help the Jews. Had Germany not invaded Poland and started WWII, there wouldn't be a Jew left in Germany and the entire world wouldn't have given two sh!ts about it.

No country fought Germany specifically because of their treatment of jews, it was one of the many reasons they fought them. America was no different, it even had quite a popular Nazi party before Germany went nuts. I'm not in a position to comment on whether Germany had easy help in recruiting people to get rid of the jews for them, but it would seem a natural reaction to me. If a German points a gun at someone (either literally or by word of mouth) and says "Gather all your jews or we'll shoot your family", well that's an easy choice for most people. I somehow doubt the Germans asked the rest of europe kindly to round up the jews, they weren't the kindest people.

And if Germany hadn't invaded Poland no one would have cared about them exterminating Jews? Interesting how you know so much about a past event that never happened. You might as well say that if Israel hadn't invaded the west bank no one would have given a toss about their treatment of the local palestinians.

Don't equate Germany with Europe.

 

Scipionix

Golden Member
May 30, 2002
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
You have to understand something Scipionix. If this had happened in the US or Israel, Czar would have been all over us or them. But since this happened in Europe/England Czar will do his best to make it look not so bad. Of course if we (Americans ) do that he's outraged. You have to understand Czar's MO when you're dealing with him because his posts are very one-sided.
Sounds like typical Lefty "thougnt." When something like this happens in America or Israel, it's "racism." When something like this happens anywhere else, it simply says something sad about the human condition.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
No country fought Germany specifically because of their treatment of jews, it was one of the many reasons they fought them. America was no different, it even had quite a popular Nazi party before Germany went nuts. I'm not in a position to comment on whether Germany had easy help in recruiting people to get rid of the jews for them, but it would seem a natural reaction to me. If a German points a gun at someone (either literally or by word of mouth) and says "Gather all your jews or we'll shoot your family", well that's an easy choice for most people. I somehow doubt the Germans asked the rest of europe kindly to round up the jews, they weren't the kindest people.

I disagree, the Holocaust wasn't even generally known about until late in the war.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |