Europe: Shining light of tolerance

[Czar]

Originally posted by: glenn1
Sorry for the confusion, i'll try to clarify my question. I've re-read this thread, and the closest i see you coming to stating a definitive position on what happened is this:

No I wouldnt, I would find the decision stupid as with this one but thats all.

Sorry to seem if i'm splitting hairs, but saying a decision is stupid doesn't necessarily mean you disagree with it.... you may agree with the end result of the decision, but simply think that the method in which it was carried out or that the messenger was "stupid," but not the message. I respectfully ask you to state definitively one way or the other whether you support or oppose the notion that a "boycott" of Israel is a legitimate goal. And if you believe that a boycott is legitimate, do you believe that the firing of the two people in question because of their nationality a legitimate method of enforcing that boycott?

ah ok
First of all I originaly posted here to say that this decision was not based on the fact that it was taken by Europeans, just that its not surprising considering how people are.
Secondly, I find this decision stupid and I disagree with it because the reason given is absurd.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Czar First of all I originaly posted here to say that this decision was not based on the fact that it was taken by Europeans, just that its not surprising considering how people are.
Secondly, I find this decision stupid and I disagree with it because the reason given is absurd.

Was it morally wrong?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Czar First of all I originaly posted here to say that this decision was not based on the fact that it was taken by Europeans, just that its not surprising considering how people are.
Secondly, I find this decision stupid and I disagree with it because the reason given is absurd.

Was it morally wrong?

morally?

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Czar
morally?

That's what I said. Can you answer the question?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Czar
morally?

That's what I said. Can you answer the question?

sorry, but I dont entirely understand what you mean by it

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Czar
morally?

That's what I said. Can you answer the question?

sorry, but I dont entirely understand what you mean by it

One last time: Was the woman's decision to fire two people solely because of their nationality morally wrong?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Czar
morally?

That's what I said. Can you answer the question?

sorry, but I dont entirely understand what you mean by it

One last time: Was the woman's decision to fire two people solely because of their nationality morally wrong?

yes definetly, thats why it was absurd

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: CzarOne last time: Was the woman's decision to fire two people solely because of their nationality morally wrong?

yes definetly, thats why it was absurd[/quote]
That's all I wanted. Thanks for the answer.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: CzarOne last time: Was the woman's decision to fire two people solely because of their nationality morally wrong?

yes definetly, thats why it was absurd

That's all I wanted. Thanks for the answer.[/quote]
anytime

 

[Jimmyjammer]

One last time: Was the woman's decision to fire two people solely because of their nationality morally wrong?

I'm kind of curious as to what she hoped to acomplish or say by dismissing those two people based on them being from Israel. If she took that point of view because she feels that by doing so she is saying to those people:

"Sorry, I've nothing against you personally but I disagree with what your country has done/is doing. So, you're refused entry here, go back and add to the pressure your government is feeling about the Palestinian issue. When your government changes tack then you'll be allowed entry."


I've put myself in their position. If I was fired because my country did something and I hadn't expressed opinion or didn't care about that 'something' then I'd feel righteous indignationand feel slighted. If, however, I had a strong obvious opinion on what my country was doing and agreed with it, then my dismissal wouldn't be that much of a surprise to me.

The fact that it's such a public ousting throws it into a whole new light. Should someone in her position know better? Or should someone in her position be willing to take a stand for what she believes in?

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer I'm kind of curious as to what she hoped to acomplish or say by dismissing those two people based on them being from Israel. If she took that point of view because she feels that by doing so she is saying to those people:

"Sorry, I've nothing against you personally but I disagree with what your country has done/is doing. So, you're refused entry here, go back and add to the pressure your government is feeling about the Palestinian issue. When your government changes tack then you'll be allowed entry."


I've put myself in their position. If I was fired because my country did something and I hadn't expressed opinion or didn't care about that 'something' then I'd feel righteous indignationand feel slighted. If, however, I had a strong obvious opinion on what my country was doing and agreed with it, then my dismissal wouldn't be that much of a surprise to me.

The fact that it's such a public ousting throws it into a whole new light. Should someone in her position know better? Or should someone in her position be willing to take a stand for what she believes in?

It's not difficult to understand.
1. Is the United Kingdom at war with Israel?
2. Does the United Kingdom have normal relations relations with Israel?
3. Has the UK government in any way suggested that the Israeli government is threatening the security of the UK?
4. Given the answers to the questions above, is it clear that this woman fired those two professors for the sole reason that she did not like their nationality?

That is why it was wrong.

 

[Martin]

Get this perfectly straight: No European countries fought Germany because of it's treatment of Jews. Only because they didn't want to be/already were invaded. Of the countries that were invaded by Germany, Germany had NO PROBLEM finding tons of local help in rounding up Jews for the death camps.

Oh please, stop with the bull A1. Before the war, jews were treated as second class citizens, much like the blacks in america (or do you consider segregation and lyunchings by the KKK to be ok?). Furthermore, anti-sematism was common worldwide during the 30s, including the US and canada. I can't remember the names of the ships, but both the US and Canada turned back several ships full of jewish refugees.

Furthermore, the extent of the holocaust was not known until after the war. I remember reading in history books that during the war, a lot of people thought that concentration camps were Allied propaganda.


As for the original topic, this happens all over the world, believe it or not. Let's not forget that many muslims and mosques recieved threats after 9/11. It happened in the US and it happened here in Canada too, despite our reputation for racial harmony. IIRC, several white officers in miami were fired because they were white (they sued and won), but I didn't see anyone starting a thread telling everone how the US was a beacon for intolerance because of tha one event.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: CzarOne last time: Was the woman's decision to fire two people solely because of their nationality morally wrong?

yes definetly, thats why it was absurd

That's all I wanted. Thanks for the answer.[/quote]



Now, can I ask you two questions?

1. Does this sort of thing happen elsewhere in the world?

2. Does this event mean that all of Europe and everyone in it is like that?

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak Now, can I ask you two questions?

1. Does this sort of thing happen elsewhere in the world?

2. Does this event mean that all of Europe and everyone in it is like that?

This does not happen in the United States

There was no reaction to this event from anywhere in Britain, so I can only assume that mainstream European academics are all like this.

 

[aphex]

By firing these professors, it shows that intellectuals will not stand for what Israel is doing, and they have to stop their brutal war crimes against Palestine.

Firing Professors for being israeli = racism

No matter which way you put it.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak Now, can I ask you two questions?

1. Does this sort of thing happen elsewhere in the world?

2. Does this event mean that all of Europe and everyone in it is like that?

This does not happen in the United States

There was no reaction to this event from anywhere in Britain, so I can only assume that mainstream European academics are all like this.

Can I ask two more questions?

1. How dense are you?
2. Does light bend around you?

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Can I ask two more questions?

1. How dense are you?
2. Does light bend around you?

I will respond with two more:

1. Do you have anything relevant to say?
2. Do you ever have anything relevant to say?

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: glenn1

"It is horrific what is going on there. Many of us would like to talk about it as some kind of Holocaust which the world will eventually wake up to, much too late, of course, as they did with the last one."

Sadly, i think that many Europeans secretly hope that's the case, regardless of the reality of the situation. They think that will finally allow them to throw the monkey of the real Holocaust off their backs, by pointing to Israel and saying, "stop picking on us, look at how Israel treats the Palestinians, those damn Jews are just as evil as the Nazis were!"

Oh please! The majority of Europeans don't feel any guilt for the holocaust. Why should they? It's akin to saying that all American school kids feel guilt for what the two nutters in Colombine did. Why should Europe feel guilty about what one country did, over 50 years ago when they obviously disagreed with that country enough to fight it.

Many of the early zionists pointed to the Balfour agreement as a reason for the recognition of an Israeli state, Balfour was British, but how could that be? All Europeans want Israel gone because they hate jews and Israel right? Please.

Get this perfectly straight: No European countries fought Germany because of it's treatment of Jews. Only because they didn't want to be/already were invaded. Of the countries that were invaded by Germany, Germany had NO PROBLEM finding tons of local help in rounding up Jews for the death camps.

So don't even try acting as if Europe battled with Germany to help the Jews. Had Germany not invaded Poland and started WWII, there wouldn't be a Jew left in Germany and the entire world wouldn't have given two sh!ts about it.

Yes. Didn't Germany try deporting them first, but no other country wanted them? Including the US and Canada. At least Canada got involved in the war right away, the US waited until Pearl Harbour (or did they do something before then? I"m not 100% sure).

I wonder if WW2 would have happened if WW1 had ended differently. I think everyone learned their lesson though which is why things were different after WW2, and Germany and Japan are now good friends.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Ultima
Yes. Didn't Germany try deporting them first, but no other country wanted them? Including the US and Canada. At least Canada got involved in the war right away, the US waited until Pearl Harbour (or did they do something before then? I"m not 100% sure).

I wonder if WW2 would have happened if WW1 had ended differently. I think everyone learned their lesson though which is why things were different after WW2, and Germany and Japan are now good friends.

Nazi leaders talked about deporting the Jews, but never seriously, and they certainly never tried to initiate such a policy. It was clearly Hitler's intent to annihilate the race.

Canada is hardly a fair comparison as it was a Commonwealth nation and had only been independent for 8 years when WWII started.

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

I'll give you an example. In the U.S., i think it's safe to say that no current citizen was a slaveowner. The vast majority probably aren't even descendents of slaveowners, or Southerners, or really even indirectly tied to the slavery legacy in this country. Yet, there is a very real, distinct, and proper sense of shame that it occurred here.

Quite correct. And in Germany there's a sense of shame that it occured there. However, if you're looking for that same sense of Shame in Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland,Spain,Italy,Portugal etc etc etc you won't find it.

Please don't equate Germany with Europe.

There's a difference. Slavery was a business in the states that many of the citizens were involved in, while the holocaust was a sick military thing perpetrated by the nazis that the common populace didn't even know about (supposedly).

 

[StinkyPinky]

What the heck is with the Euro bashing on this forum? I was hoping this place would be a cool place for small talk, but instead it seems to be overun by xenophobes.

So ONE lady wrongfully dismissed two people. Big deal. Is that a fair reason to insult all of Europe? I'm sure there are numerous cases in the US where people are wrongfully fired as well.

Get over it Sciponix. Geez. Did some European seduce your wife or something?

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
What the heck is with the Euro bashing on this forum? I was hoping this place would be a cool place for small talk, but instead it seems to be overun by xenophobes.

So ONE lady wrongfully dismissed two people. Big deal. Is that a fair reason to insult all of Europe? I'm sure there are numerous cases in the US where people are wrongfully fired as well.

Get over it Sciponix. Geez. Did some European seduce your wife or something?

That would mean that there is a straight European??? :Q

 

[StinkyPinky]

That would mean that there is a straight European???

Heh...I thought San Francisco was the gay capital of the world? Not Europe. Although those French.......

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
What the heck is with the Euro bashing on this forum? I was hoping this place would be a cool place for small talk, but instead it seems to be overun by xenophobes.

So ONE lady wrongfully dismissed two people. Big deal. Is that a fair reason to insult all of Europe? I'm sure there are numerous cases in the US where people are wrongfully fired as well.

Get over it Sciponix. Geez. Did some European seduce your wife or something?

I suggest YOU get over the Euro bashing.

I guess you havent been around this forum long enough to have seen the countless US bashing posts since Sep 11?

The mud gets slung both ways...

 

[StinkyPinky]

I suggest YOU get over the Euro bashing.

I guess you havent been around this forum long enough to have seen the countless US bashing posts since Sep 11?

The mud gets slung both ways...

Why should I get over it? It's hypocritical.

And I've been here on and off for about four years, but never bothered to post as I'm busy. I remember nothing but support from 99% of any Europeans on this board after Sep 11.