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1ceHacka

Senior member
Mar 3, 2006
565
1
0
haha I have my own small fleet of freighters and orcas now. Since on both alt accounts i have 2 characters (so 4 total) that can use both. So I have 2 orcas and 2 freighters. Works out great, like a revolving door of goodies I like the orca the most though cause I can haul tons of stuff in isk value in the corp hanger and do it afk and no one will bother with you since it wont drop, while I keep the freighters to 800m for my afking and load them with large items instead, freighters are also better for afking cause they are faster moving to the gate when they warp to it (freighter is 100m/s orca is 65m/s) so youll get to a spot quicker with the freighter afk.

I've spent way too much time doing that stuff as you can see lol.

How are you liking Perpetuum Fallen? I've been hearing mixed things about it, it looks interesting though.

So you guys are making stuff by just buying things in Jita and auto-pilot flying out 20+ jumps and re-selling? Seems too good to be true >< Also, I'm guessing since you are flying such big ships that there is no risk of being alpha'ed. I currently have a jump freighter that I used to move ore every once and a while, but nothing huge.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
So you guys are making stuff by just buying things in Jita and auto-pilot flying out 20+ jumps and re-selling? Seems too good to be true >< Also, I'm guessing since you are flying such big ships that there is no risk of being alpha'ed. I currently have a jump freighter that I used to move ore every once and a while, but nothing huge.

You can make money pretty easily that way, but it's not that easy to do it in the quantities that they're talking about. I will buy high-tech missiles in Jita and re-sell them in low-sec stations, but the profit there is a few million isk per week, not a few billion.
 

1ceHacka

Senior member
Mar 3, 2006
565
1
0
I need to only train Freighter I to get in the Prophecy. But it would be interesting to hear more about the 400m/day. I'd be happy with 20m/day lol!
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
I'm still wondering what sorts of items people are hauling. The two most profitable things I've been able to do are buy salvage in nul-sec and sell it in high sec and sell high-end ammo in low-sec that I bought in Jita. Neither is a great cash cow.
 

1ceHacka

Senior member
Mar 3, 2006
565
1
0
I found a few write-ups on trading. I honestly have never done anything like this in the game. I spent the better part of a year as a Goon just doing fleet battles, then moved to a smaller corp without an Alliance doing gang stuff. Moved onto level 4's after taking a break and coming back. Done a little bit of mining operations, Industry, and PI. Never really got into the trading market, but it sounds like it might fit my current play style of Eve.

Here are the write-ups:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Trading_&#37;28Profession)
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Advanced_Trading
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Ok, I'll give you some info but not much, cause it was a lot of homework for me to get this info and I don't want to bring competition on myself, so you'll have to excuse some of the vagueness.

Biggest thing is: location, location, location!

Finding a hi sec system with a station near a 0.0 pipeline
Learning what timezone the alliances that live in that space are in helps a lot with being able to know when to be active on keeping your orders updated

Stuff to sell: Anything and everything!

First you need to figure out what you deem is a good profit margin, my general rule is, I want to make at least 100k off an item (ships more in the 500k range at least and this excludes fuels/ammo). I sell some items that have lower profit margins (like 60-70k) but have extremely high sell rates so I make up for it in volume. I do sell some items that are slow movers (like selling 2 a week) but their profit margins are extremely high (like 20-30m + )

It is all about have a variety of stuff, making yourself specialized into one type of general type of goods will come around to screw you when some douchbag decides they want to test the waters in your are and dumb a bunch of crap on the market at crap margins, it will happen and you need to ride it out so having a diverse portfolio of items to sell helps make it so you are always pulling in good profits regardless if some items got fucked cause of an asshat.

Which items to sell? Well the first way to figure this out is checking the market, start off with the basics that many different fits use regardless (example damage control unit 2). See what the prices are like and compare to Jita (should have 2 accounts for this to make it quicker with on the fly comprising, if not make a caladari alt and park it in jita and write/type stuff down and prices) and also check the sell rate for the pass 30 days to see how much of the product is moving.

Think general, you are catering to 0.0 guys mostly. Look up (if you don't know them) popular ship fits for common pvp ships and start checking prices on ALL that stuff (ship, rigs, mods, ammo, etc). Don't forget, fuels for POS and jump capable ships that will ferry in fuel from high sec.

Buy orders, use it for salvage, those 0 guys don't want to haul the shit to a large trading hub and will be happy to sell it to you. You might only make 20k-4m per item you buy but remember, with salvage you are dealing with large volumes so it makes up for itself.

Ok, so you found a spot and some items you want to sell. Don't go buck wild. Buy small amounts to test the waters. I say this cause, things might not just sell regardless of the homework put into it, or they might slower much slower than you expected. The main reason though is, to see how active the other sellers (your competition) are out there. If you find a station that has very active traders their you might be screwed depending if you are selling the same items as them or you can't put as much time into it as them. Sure things might be selling hot cakes there, but if you are getting undercut every 10 mins after modifying your order it probably wont be worth it.

When you get into this situation where you just can't compete cause competition is to stiff, you have 2 options. You can either try and find other items that they aren't selling at that station and sell off the rest of what you bought to test the waters or, and this is normally better even if it is more work, start over looking for a new location.

As for the actual hauling. If you aren't dealing with lots of big items or battleships, I highly recommend using an Orca. You can load the corp cargohold full of expensive stuff and people wont bother you flying afk cause none of that stuff drops in there if they do attack and they know it. You can fill up the ship bay with ships and even stick 1 BS into the normal cargohold if you need and you will be fine.

If you are going to stick with haul stuff under 800m (that is my personal cut off for afk in freighter) and it takes up lots of room, go with a freighter. If you are just dealing with small stuff, T2 transport with the cov ops is great as long as you are not afking it

Hopefully this helps some, if you have any questions feel free to ask, but I wont give anything super specific away
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
KaOTiK:

Thanks. I obviously would never ask you to give up your trade routes, but it was interesting to hear how you've gone about doing your "research."
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
461
126
Possibly but all of this from CCP shows massive warning signs. They are no longer connected to Eve's community or they don't care, both of which are pretty scary for a game like Eve. Honestly, I have no doubt they are going to sell actual items, it is just a matter of when at this point. IMO whatever we hear from the CSM with their emergency meeting is CCP doing damage control to buy time till they turn on what they said and fuck us.

Bleak outlook on my part sure, but not unjustified giving the current circumstances and info we have.

The writing is on the wall, especially with CCP being in debt due to biting off more then they can chew/handle on their income stream. They have a several million $ loan due at the end of October, and their current spending and current income will not get it done. Which means they are going to do everything they can to increase their income, and since the only income stream they have is EVE, they are double dipping, and will do it in any way possible (hence the reason they were discussing EVERYTHING in the leaked newsletter).

This is why people are leaving now. And this is also why the leaked emails were "stay the course", and "predicted reactions". They know we don't want this, but they painted themselves into a corner and are now having us EVE players foot the bill for Dust and the Werewolves/Vampires games, instead of doing it the proper way with getting investment capital for those specific projects, spin them off into their own dev teams, with their own budgets, and if they failed due to over-expense, that particular project fails, not the other current working income streams.
 

1ceHacka

Senior member
Mar 3, 2006
565
1
0
Killer write-up. I have 2 accounts, though my combat pilot won't be worth much so he'll be the one to sit in Jita.

About hauling, how often do you run into people actually trying to gang you? Unless something has changed, I used to tank gate guns when we found someone worth it the old days. Going into low sec with a freighter and 800m worth of goods would scare the snot out of me. I'll definitely run a scout alt, but may even hire some help if it comes to that. No risk, no reward I guess.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Killer write-up. I have 2 accounts, though my combat pilot won't be worth much so he'll be the one to sit in Jita.

About hauling, how often do you run into people actually trying to gang you? Unless something has changed, I used to tank gate guns when we found someone worth it the old days. Going into low sec with a freighter and 800m worth of goods would scare the snot out of me. I'll definitely run a scout alt, but may even hire some help if it comes to that. No risk, no reward I guess.

I've never been attacked. I stay in hi sec only as well and will not travel through low or 0 with these trade alts. I just make sure my freighter doesn't have more than 800m in it so even if you come across a group capable of jumping a freighter it wouldn't be worth it still. The orca, in the corp cargohold I routinely throw 1b+ into and keep no more than like a BS or few BC's in the normal cargohold. I do 90% of my traveling afk, the freighter is faster for afk'n but like I said, I'm limited to 800m worth of stuff or simply lots of big stuff. Orca gets used a lot simply due to no worries of the amount I put in the corp cargohold even if it is slower.

Oh one other thing, if you can find a station where the freighter you fly sells, it is a nice way to drop the freighter off than clone jump (if you have them for your alts, if you don't there is a corp out there that lets you do it for free ) back to Jita if you are in a hurry to go somewhere else
 

1ceHacka

Senior member
Mar 3, 2006
565
1
0
Spent a few hours checking the star map and then researching prices in my new "home" vs. Jita prices. I started off small with mostly Tech 2 stuff and one ship. Invested around 300m. All the things I bought had a good margin as well as selling history. The system is 1 jump off of null-sec, so hopefully I'll get some bites. If everything sells as is, I stand to profit 60m after fees. I spent some time making a spreadsheet that would compare the Jita prices vs. what I would sell at. Also made sure to have a date/time column so I know when I last checked the Jita prices. I figured in a 0.9&#37; broker fee and a 1.0% tax as well. Here goes nothing!!
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Good luck, hope it works out for you

With the weekend coming up now too things always increase. If you get more serious I would work on getting those trade skills up some to help with the fee/taxes. Also once you find a place to sell out of, the best way to increase your income is to sell more things (as in different not quantity). My main seller is up to up to tycoon 4, which means I have 259 (iirc) market orders and they are all used.

It is a great thing when you sell a ship and the entire fit for it to the same person as you look at your wallets transactions haha. It's like I just made xx millions from that
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
461
126
You can risk a little more in the freighter, but not a whole lot. You will get cargo scanned. I mean, I have risked 800m in an indy a few times, but not without the proper fitting and rigs (warp core stabs, inertia damps, and alignment rigs), as well as some recent scouting.

Really though, the orca is where it is, since nothing drops, it is a lot of ship to gank in high sec with a DCII+Reinforced Bulkheads II will be pretty hard to gank before concord blows the hell out of everyone (212k tank!)
 

BadRobot

Senior member
May 25, 2007
547
0
0
its a miracle i got my 4 year old account back lol. Whew, saved me 6 mil sp. alright so is raven still a good mission runign ship and has mining changed much ?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
its a miracle i got my 4 year old account back lol. Whew, saved me 6 mil sp. alright so is raven still a good mission runign ship and has mining changed much ?

I'm not sure how far back 4 years goes in terms of gameplay and graphics, but probably the newest thing in mining is Orca support, where the Orca pilot runs modules/implants that reduce cycle time, increase strip miner range, and so forth.

Raven is still the same ship it was (I think 4 years is still post great missile nerf)... There are better ships, however, such as Golem (Raven-like "Marauder" class), and Caldari Navy Raven.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Isk is doing me good outside of game time now

Corpmate bought a bunch of new computer parts and he got a copy of Total War Shogun 2 with his new video card. He had no interest in it at all and I offered to buy the serial number with isk and he agreed. 400m for it. Not bad, not bad at all. Downloading now
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
I'm not sure how far back 4 years goes in terms of gameplay and graphics, but probably the newest thing in mining is Orca support, where the Orca pilot runs modules/implants that reduce cycle time, increase strip miner range, and so forth.

Raven is still the same ship it was (I think 4 years is still post great missile nerf)... There are better ships, however, such as Golem (Raven-like "Marauder" class), and Caldari Navy Raven.

think the missle nerf was yet to come as in my limited knowledge of the game for my 4 year dormant account I remember reading about going missile boat early on for the ease.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
New blog out from the CCP/CSM meeting.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=935

Currently reading it now

Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online

Following the series of events surrounding the launch of Incarna, CCP invited the Council of Stellar Management (CSM) to an extraordinary meeting in Reykjavik to discuss and address a variety of topics ranging from ship spinning to performance to virtual goods strategies. The discussions were very productive and both parties came to an understanding and agreement on key topics. That meeting has now ended and a firm resolution reached by both parties.

CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.

It is CCP&#8216;s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCP&#8216;s plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis.

CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system. We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items.

The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.

The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with &#8222;ship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.

We are very happy with the results of the meetings and appreciate the commitment to EVE the CSM members have shown by attending the meeting on short notice.

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


Statement on behalf of the Council of Stellar Management from The Mittani, Chairman of CSM 6


The CSM came to Reykjavik for this extraordinary summit to address the cloud of suspicion and fear which has descended upon CCP and the EVE community in the aftermath of the Incarna expansion and the various internal leaks.

The issues we have addressed and discussed with CCP are:

Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden.

Noble Exchange Rollout Debacle: We were shocked and appalled to discover how badly the planning and implementation of the Noble Exchange was executed. Despite the fact that they did not have enough assets of the right types to do a proper rollout, they launched anyway. The CSM believes that if CCP had properly communicated the details of their vanity goods pricing strategy and had sufficient low-tier items available at launch, the controversy would have been greatly reduced. CCP will issue a dev blog in the near future explaining their vanity goods strategy and how it will be implemented in the Noble Exchange.

Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for &#8216;gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared &#8216;game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.

The Fearless "Greed is Good?" Leak: We accept CCP's position that Fearless is a deliberately controversial internal publication and does not represent the policy of CCP Management or of CCP Zulu, the Senior Producer of EVE Online, nor the direction of game design.

The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it.

Arnar (CCP Zulu)'s Angry Friday Blog: We were disappointed by the tone taken in Arnar's Blog, but we understand that he was in a state of extreme agitation and reacting to the leaks coming from within his company, which he saw as a breach of trust. While we may disagree with some of his decisions, we are united in our support of Arnar as the Senior Producer, and were pleased with his followup Apology Blog. We hope that his statement today will begin to restore your trust in his leadership and vision.

We believe that the situation that has unfolded in the past week has been a perfect storm of CCP communication failures, poor planning and sheer bad luck. Most of these issues, when dealt with in isolation, were reasonably simple to discuss and resolve, but combined they transformed a series of errors into the most significant crisis the EVE community has yet experienced.

We hope that this meeting will be the first step in the restoration of trust between CCP and the EVE community, and we will keep the community informed as to CCP's efforts in delivering on the commitments they have made to us and to you.

Let the resubbing begin?
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Still leaves a bit to be desired, but really, though this really did have the best possible response we could hope for really.

The only thing that makes everything very uneasy for me is the word "plan".
It is CCP&#8216;s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.

Otherwise like I said, this was probably the best outcome we could have hoped for from this right now.
 
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