EVE!

[Malladine]

So how effective are ECM drones? I'm gonna take a couple flights of the mediums with me when i hit null sec ratting again...hoping they'll at least allow me to warp out.

 

[cirrhosis]

Originally posted by: Dell John B
bitter stuff

Internets Space Boat Violence and nub alliances. It's srs bizness, folks!

Eve University is a decent bunch from experience, and they have an alright reputation when it comes to embracing noobs.

If you are looking to become involved in PvP, check out Agony Unleashed. They help newbs that are eager to get their teeth into some real meat and bones rather than the hum-drum of AIs.

 

[Dell John B]

Originally posted by: cirrhosis

Originally posted by: Dell John B
bitter stuff

Internets Space Boat Violence and nub alliances. It's srs bizness, folks!

Eve University is a decent bunch from experience, and they have an alright reputation when it comes to embracing noobs.

If you are looking to become involved in PvP, check out Agony Unleashed. They help newbs that are eager to get their teeth into some real meat and bones rather than the hum-drum of AIs.

Bitter stuff? SRSLY?

I'm sorry about your reading comprehension issues.

+1 on the Agony Unleashed recommendation. Those guys rock!

Edit: Had I known there were so many IVY guys and IVY sympathizers on this board, I would have just kept it to myself. After all, E-UNI spews out more victims for me than any other single corp.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: Dell John B

Originally posted by: cirrhosis

Originally posted by: Dell John B
bitter stuff

Internets Space Boat Violence and nub alliances. It's srs bizness, folks!

Eve University is a decent bunch from experience, and they have an alright reputation when it comes to embracing noobs.

If you are looking to become involved in PvP, check out Agony Unleashed. They help newbs that are eager to get their teeth into some real meat and bones rather than the hum-drum of AIs.

Bitter stuff? SRSLY?

I'm sorry about your reading comprehension issues.

+1 on the Agony Unleashed recommendation. Those guys rock!

Edit: Had I known there were so many IVY guys and IVY sympathizers on this board, I would have just kept it to myself. After all, E-UNI spews out more victims for me than any other single corp.

Do you realize a lot of the Agony Unleashed guys came from EVE-Uni? That is the normal progression if you utilize the EVE-Uni contacts when you decide you are ready for bigger and better things.

 

[Saga]

My alliance recently grew quite a bit in size and then decided to turn every single alliance surrounding us in the three directions leading to empire red and go on some jihad, effectively cutting off ANY viable and safe path to empire. Amusingly, they did this when I was two seconds away from lighting a cyno and jumping two carriers into a blue gatecamp in GW. You can imagine my surprise when my covert ops ship was suddenly surrounded by 30 reds when I was about to hit the cyno button. Was a HUGE "wtf?" moment and I almost hotdropped two carriers into a hostile 30+ man gate camp.

Both carriers were triage + ECCM setups capable of tanking 9k DPS cap-stable and had 700 drones on them, so I actually probably would have been able to kill their dictors and heavy support and jumped out, and it genuinely would have been one HELL of a fight, especially if they didn't know what was going on until I had already nailed a few of their bigger ships.

Now I'm mellowing out. I'm POSing it up in empire doing some carebear money-making fiasco's with market, trade, and industry. Who knows when I'll be back in deep 0.0 again.. now that they've isolated any ability for me to get out there without potentially losing the cap ship in the process I won't be risking my neck to rejoin the good fight anytime soon.

 

[Dell John B]

Originally posted by: hooflung


Do you realize a lot of the Agony Unleashed guys came from EVE-Uni? That is the normal progression if you utilize the EVE-Uni contacts when you decide you are ready for bigger and better things.

Yes, I do.

I also realize that most of my current corp came from IAC, though I thought IAC was a horrible alliance, and largely lacked organization and talent. I like my corp a great deal. IAC gave me heartburn (in-game).

Most Uni pilots don't go on to Agony Unleashed. The two are unaffiliated, and have different structures and goals. EU has some friendly corps that hop in and out of their alliance, and I would guess more EU pilots flock to those than any others. This last bit is just conjecture, mind you.

People are free to play however they want. I think there are far better and more fun ways to learn how to play EVE than joining up with Eve University though. That's all I was trying to convey...

You're an E-UNI alumni, I take it?

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Martimus
I just got kicked out of the Epic Arc about half way through it. Not sure what happened, but the lady from the sister of Eve suddenly wrote me an e-mail saying that I wasn't quick enough for her; even though I didn't take the mission from her yet (I had completed one for her about 8 hours before I read the e-mail, but I really don't know what happened). It stopped right after the "Royal Jelly" mission.

I think it is just a bug, but now I guess I am ready to move on to the rest of the game.

It looks like they fixed this in the current patch (based on the release notes). I stopped home at lunch and started downloading the patch, but it is going pretty slow. I won't be able to check it out until I get home from work this afternoon to see if it fixed the issue.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Dell John B

Originally posted by: cirrhosis
If you are looking to become involved in PvP, check out Agony Unleashed. They help newbs that are eager to get their teeth into some real meat and bones rather than the hum-drum of AIs.

+1 on the Agony Unleashed recommendation. Those guys rock!

I'm going to try to sign up for their next class. The only issue is that it costs 12M ISK, which would take me a few days to come up with, and I would rather keep that much on hand for emergencies in case my ship gets killed.

 

[JRich]

Originally posted by: Malladine
So how effective are ECM drones? I'm gonna take a couple flights of the mediums with me when i hit null sec ratting again...hoping they'll at least allow me to warp out.

I love them. That Megathron kill I posted a while back I was using EC-600's and the poor soul didn't get a lock until it was too late

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Martimus

Originally posted by: Dell John B

Originally posted by: cirrhosis
If you are looking to become involved in PvP, check out Agony Unleashed. They help newbs that are eager to get their teeth into some real meat and bones rather than the hum-drum of AIs.

+1 on the Agony Unleashed recommendation. Those guys rock!

I'm going to try to sign up for their next class. The only issue is that it costs 12M ISK, which would take me a few days to come up with, and I would rather keep that much on hand for emergencies in case my ship gets killed.

Eh? Someone wants you to pay for something intangible? Wtf. Paying a "cover charge" to get into a corp... no thanks.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Martimus

Originally posted by: Dell John B

Originally posted by: cirrhosis
If you are looking to become involved in PvP, check out Agony Unleashed. They help newbs that are eager to get their teeth into some real meat and bones rather than the hum-drum of AIs.

+1 on the Agony Unleashed recommendation. Those guys rock!

I'm going to try to sign up for their next class. The only issue is that it costs 12M ISK, which would take me a few days to come up with, and I would rather keep that much on hand for emergencies in case my ship gets killed.

Eh? Someone wants you to pay for something intangible? Wtf. Paying a "cover charge" to get into a corp... no thanks.

Not quite. They actually run PVP classes, where they charge 12M ISK per class. They run two a month (at least of the basic type), and you do not need to be a member of their Corp to attend, unlike Eve-University.

http://www.agony-unleashed.com.../forum_viewforum.php?2

Still, that is a hefty entry fee for a beginner, so I don't know if I will do it.

 

[Canai]

I haven't been playing too much recently. We're now at war with a Russian alliance, so I've just been roaming around highsec in my scanathema and ishkur plexing and doing radar sites. Much better than missioning!

 

[Specop 007]

Is Eve currently down for the patch? Game says protocol incompatible and the website doesnt load.......

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Is Eve currently down for the patch? Game says protocol incompatible and the website doesnt load.......

From the site:

EVE Online: Apocrypha 1.1 will be deployed on Thursday, 16th April, 2009. Downtime is scheduled to start at 11.00 GMT and is expected to be completed by 16.15 GMT.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Is Eve currently down for the patch? Game says protocol incompatible and the website doesnt load.......

From the site:

EVE Online: Apocrypha 1.1 will be deployed on Thursday, 16th April, 2009. Downtime is scheduled to start at 11.00 GMT and is expected to be completed by 16.15 GMT.

Damn so the site loads for you?

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Is Eve currently down for the patch? Game says protocol incompatible and the website doesnt load.......

From the site:

EVE Online: Apocrypha 1.1 will be deployed on Thursday, 16th April, 2009. Downtime is scheduled to start at 11.00 GMT and is expected to be completed by 16.15 GMT.

Damn so the site loads for you?

At the time it loaded and I was even able to get to the forums, which often we're not able to when they upgrade. Right now I'm installing the patch.

 

[Coldkilla]

I need some advice. I'm in sort of a panic mode right now and I don't know what to do. I've trained all my 11 learning skills to level 4, I've got a Drake, a bunch of tanking and missile skills.. I've been playing for about 5+ weeks (at about 1,800,000 skill points) and I'm at a point where I need some direction.

Eventually I would like to pilot an Orca, and ultimately a Charon. Trading seems like a fun career but I honestly have no idea how you can make a living off of trading at this stage in the game. I'd love to haul the ore my corp (along with my brother) mines and try to sell it for higher prices at other stations in order to turn a higher profit... or sell manufactured ships & goods at other stations etc..

My impression of the game at this point is that you HAVE to be a miner, no matter what. So what if I eventually want a 450 million isk orca, that won't happen for a few months. In the mean time I need a career... Manufacturing blueprints? That requires materials/ore, which require mining. Doing missions? I've done SO MANY damned missions and I'm still level 1 with a 0.44 faction standing. I even did 12 missions today for my faction (Caldari) and went backwards in standings. I'm hardly making any cash from that. Salvaging helps but will only be truely beneficial at level 3-4.

Can any of you guys recommend some ways I can generate a good income for someone like me at this point in the game? I have $65 million isk and am willing to invest $40 million if it means I'll turn a profit. Anything but mining.... Thats like the only thing people seem to do. It's like I have a goal, but have no idea on how to go about the means towards achieving it that doesn't involve mining.

If mining is the best way, I will consider it - but I'd like honest suggestions so I can make an informed decision. Thanks a bunch

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
I need some advice. I'm in sort of a panic mode right now and I don't know what to do. I've trained all my 11 learning skills to level 4, I've got a Drake, a bunch of tanking and missile skills.. I've been playing for about 5+ weeks (at about 1,800,000 skill points) and I'm at a point where I need some direction.

Eventually I would like to pilot an Orca, and ultimately a Charon. Trading seems like a fun career but I honestly have no idea how you can make a living off of trading at this stage in the game. I'd love to haul the ore my corp (along with my brother) mines and try to sell it for higher prices at other stations in order to turn a higher profit... or sell manufactured ships & goods at other stations etc..

My impression of the game at this point is that you HAVE to be a miner, no matter what. So what if I eventually want a 450 million isk orca, that won't happen for a few months. In the mean time I need a career... Manufacturing blueprints? That requires materials/ore, which require mining. Doing missions? I've done SO MANY damned missions and I'm still level 1 with a 0.44 faction standing. I even did 12 missions today for my faction (Caldari) and went backwards in standings. I'm hardly making any cash from that. Salvaging helps but will only be truely beneficial at level 3-4.

Can any of you guys recommend some ways I can generate a good income for someone like me at this point in the game? I have $65 million isk and am willing to invest $40 million if it means I'll turn a profit. Anything but mining.... Thats like the only thing people seem to do. It's like I have a goal, but have no idea on how to go about the means towards achieving it that doesn't involve mining.

If mining is the best way, I will consider it - but I'd like honest suggestions so I can make an informed decision. Thanks a bunch

Have you trained up any social skills (connections, etc.)? They will increase the rate at which you gain standings when doing missions.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
I need some advice. I'm in sort of a panic mode right now and I don't know what to do. I've trained all my 11 learning skills to level 4, I've got a Drake, a bunch of tanking and missile skills.. I've been playing for about 5+ weeks (at about 1,800,000 skill points) and I'm at a point where I need some direction.

Eventually I would like to pilot an Orca, and ultimately a Charon. Trading seems like a fun career but I honestly have no idea how you can make a living off of trading at this stage in the game. I'd love to haul the ore my corp (along with my brother) mines and try to sell it for higher prices at other stations in order to turn a higher profit... or sell manufactured ships & goods at other stations etc..

My impression of the game at this point is that you HAVE to be a miner, no matter what. So what if I eventually want a 450 million isk orca, that won't happen for a few months. In the mean time I need a career... Manufacturing blueprints? That requires materials/ore, which require mining. Doing missions? I've done SO MANY damned missions and I'm still level 1 with a 0.44 faction standing. I even did 12 missions today for my faction (Caldari) and went backwards in standings. I'm hardly making any cash from that. Salvaging helps but will only be truely beneficial at level 3-4.

Can any of you guys recommend some ways I can generate a good income for someone like me at this point in the game? I have $65 million isk and am willing to invest $40 million if it means I'll turn a profit. Anything but mining.... Thats like the only thing people seem to do. It's like I have a goal, but have no idea on how to go about the means towards achieving it that doesn't involve mining.

If mining is the best way, I will consider it - but I'd like honest suggestions so I can make an informed decision. Thanks a bunch

I am also a newbie, and I also very much enjoy trading. However, I never mine anything (it is boring to me). So you can do it without mining a thing. Just find a station with good agents, and find common ammunition, fittings or drones that appear heavily overpriced in those stations.

Next, buy the blueprint for that item (or items), buy the materials at the station (it is best to buy the materials with orders and not pay the mark-up by buying instantly) and then manufacture the parts. I find it easiest to calculate how many parts I can run in a day and do that in a run if Iam going to be at that station a lot. For stations that I won't be at a lot, I make longer manufacturing runs (say 3 days, or a week).

When your run is done, put it on market for 0.01 ISK less than the lowest price part currently selling (there are exceptions, say if one is much lower than the rest and has low volume - just ignore it as it will sell out soon and then yours will sell at a much higher profit margin). Make sure you keep it on market long enough to sell out as well. (Ammo sells the fastest)

Finally, if you don't want to get into maunafacturing, you can put in orders for parts at all sorts of stations for 1% of their value. This is best for low value parts, and for parts that are common NPC drops from the missions that the agents in the station give out. People will come in and sell off their loot after missions and won't bother finding the best price for cheap items. Take these items and resell them at market value (or above if the station is ripe for it) In quantity, this can make you a lot of money.

This is my way of making money while not playing a whole lot. It helps make the grind of missions far more bearable. Playing the market like this takes time, but unlike missions/mining all of the real work is done while you are offline, and your active work is only 5-10 minutes.

EDIT: This is only what I came up with through trial and error in the three weeks since I started playing. You can probably find a much better guide out on the net that will do a much better job explaining the process than from a newbie like me with no outside guidance.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: stevty2889

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
I need some advice. I'm in sort of a panic mode right now and I don't know what to do. I've trained all my 11 learning skills to level 4, I've got a Drake, a bunch of tanking and missile skills.. I've been playing for about 5+ weeks (at about 1,800,000 skill points) and I'm at a point where I need some direction.

Eventually I would like to pilot an Orca, and ultimately a Charon. Trading seems like a fun career but I honestly have no idea how you can make a living off of trading at this stage in the game. I'd love to haul the ore my corp (along with my brother) mines and try to sell it for higher prices at other stations in order to turn a higher profit... or sell manufactured ships & goods at other stations etc..

My impression of the game at this point is that you HAVE to be a miner, no matter what. So what if I eventually want a 450 million isk orca, that won't happen for a few months. In the mean time I need a career... Manufacturing blueprints? That requires materials/ore, which require mining. Doing missions? I've done SO MANY damned missions and I'm still level 1 with a 0.44 faction standing. I even did 12 missions today for my faction (Caldari) and went backwards in standings. I'm hardly making any cash from that. Salvaging helps but will only be truely beneficial at level 3-4.

Can any of you guys recommend some ways I can generate a good income for someone like me at this point in the game? I have $65 million isk and am willing to invest $40 million if it means I'll turn a profit. Anything but mining.... Thats like the only thing people seem to do. It's like I have a goal, but have no idea on how to go about the means towards achieving it that doesn't involve mining.

If mining is the best way, I will consider it - but I'd like honest suggestions so I can make an informed decision. Thanks a bunch

Have you trained up any social skills (connections, etc.)? They will increase the rate at which you gain standings when doing missions.

Missions are actually pretty lucrative (if repetitive..) stevty2889 is right, you need to train up the Social, Connections, and Diplomacy skills to more quickly gain standings. That'll help you to move to better agents, and along with that come harder (more lucrative) missions and better rewards.

 

[Martimus]

I just got into a cruiser a couple of days ago, and I have had to change my whole style of fighting. I can't hit crap the way I was playing, orbiting fast and tight and hitting with blasters. Now I need to web them, approach close, then unleash my blasters and hope my tank is better than theirs. I actually find frigates funner to fly, as you rarely get hit unless the opponent has missiles.

Maybe I need to upgrade some skills to be able to hit the broadside of a barn while moving, since I can't imagine my cruiser standing up to a battleship or battle cruiser (I ran away the one time I came up against one). Any suggestions for how to fly and fight in a cruiser?

I have a Vexor right now, with plans on a Thorax once I can fit it the way I want to fit it. I have 4 heavy electron blaster 1's on the Vexor, with a Nos in the highs (I will probably change that once I can fit a Drone Link Augmenter); 10MN Afterburner/MWD (depending on whether I am doing missions or not), Status Webifier, and med Cap Booster (w/ 800 boosters) in the Mids; Med Armor Rep 1, Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane, 400mm Rolled Tungsten, and a Damage Control in the Lows. I have pretty much fit it the same way I fit frigates, so I may have done it completely wrong.

 

[aigomorla]

oh gowd i got a free trial for 20 days with my evga board.

i absolutely hated it.

The interface is kinda complicated if your new to eve online.
The whole thing is complicated.

I miss the old style games like earth above and beyond where ship interface was so much easier.

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: Dell John B
Doesn't that violate one of the main rules of the game? I.E. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Most of the corporations I've been in require a certain amount of independence from its members. The reason is simple: if one can't manage their own affairs well enough to have ships on hand when needed, how can that person be beneficial to the group?

In short, I don't think it's silly at all.

I've seen people get kicked from corps I've been in for flying their best ship, losing it in PvP, and then whining about how they now can't afford a ship worth flying. I honestly didn't disagree with the decisions as they were made. They violated logic by flying what they couldn't afford to lose. If I ran a corp, that member would be kicked quickly, as their decisions are dragging down the group.

Also, most of the PvP corps I've had experience with have NO joint assets, and for very good reasons. Joint assets are a liability and a weakness. Look what happened to BoB. Or Ubiqua Seraph. Or countless others. You PvP, and you will end up making enemies. Unless you restrict membership to only those you know, you'll always be vulnerable to infiltration, and a corporation or alliance that heavily relies on joint assets to maintain it's combat viability is just BEGGING for disaster.

any pvp outfit worth a damn has some sort of socialist backing,

I'm in Pandemic Legion we used to be ultra capitalistic, and we would hold our own in skirmishes and gorilla warfare but we relised to fight and beat bob we needed to have socialist elements to fun dreads and titans and other expensive alliance assets. When we took fountain, we leveraged our new R64 moons to fund our capital fleet, titans, offensive towers, and now full ship replacement program. Granted not every alliance makes 150B a month from R64 moons, but I'm just saying name me a alliance/corp that is worth a damn in the big picture of eve that doesn't do something similar to this and I will be surprised.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: stevty2889

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
I need some advice. I'm in sort of a panic mode right now and I don't know what to do. I've trained all my 11 learning skills to level 4, I've got a Drake, a bunch of tanking and missile skills.. I've been playing for about 5+ weeks (at about 1,800,000 skill points) and I'm at a point where I need some direction.

Eventually I would like to pilot an Orca, and ultimately a Charon. Trading seems like a fun career but I honestly have no idea how you can make a living off of trading at this stage in the game. I'd love to haul the ore my corp (along with my brother) mines and try to sell it for higher prices at other stations in order to turn a higher profit... or sell manufactured ships & goods at other stations etc..

My impression of the game at this point is that you HAVE to be a miner, no matter what. So what if I eventually want a 450 million isk orca, that won't happen for a few months. In the mean time I need a career... Manufacturing blueprints? That requires materials/ore, which require mining. Doing missions? I've done SO MANY damned missions and I'm still level 1 with a 0.44 faction standing. I even did 12 missions today for my faction (Caldari) and went backwards in standings. I'm hardly making any cash from that. Salvaging helps but will only be truely beneficial at level 3-4.

Can any of you guys recommend some ways I can generate a good income for someone like me at this point in the game? I have $65 million isk and am willing to invest $40 million if it means I'll turn a profit. Anything but mining.... Thats like the only thing people seem to do. It's like I have a goal, but have no idea on how to go about the means towards achieving it that doesn't involve mining.

If mining is the best way, I will consider it - but I'd like honest suggestions so I can make an informed decision. Thanks a bunch

Have you trained up any social skills (connections, etc.)? They will increase the rate at which you gain standings when doing missions.

Missions are actually pretty lucrative (if repetitive..) stevty2889 is right, you need to train up the Social, Connections, and Diplomacy skills to more quickly gain standings. That'll help you to move to better agents, and along with that come harder (more lucrative) missions and better rewards.

Combine with salvaging of rig parts, collecting of tags, cashing in loyalty points and refining of modules and selling of T1 Meta 4 items you can make tons of additional ISK on top of the ISK made from completing the mission itself. You just have to have the refining, salvaging and production skills to get at this potential ISK. It doesn't take long to develop these skills maybe 2-3 months total.

 

[nsafreak]

Originally posted by: Martimus
I just got into a cruiser a couple of days ago, and I have had to change my whole style of fighting. I can't hit crap the way I was playing, orbiting fast and tight and hitting with blasters. Now I need to web them, approach close, then unleash my blasters and hope my tank is better than theirs. I actually find frigates funner to fly, as you rarely get hit unless the opponent has missiles.

Maybe I need to upgrade some skills to be able to hit the broadside of a barn while moving, since I can't imagine my cruiser standing up to a battleship or battle cruiser (I ran away the one time I came up against one). Any suggestions for how to fly and fight in a cruiser?

I have a Vexor right now, with plans on a Thorax once I can fit it the way I want to fit it. I have 4 heavy electron blaster 1's on the Vexor, with a Nos in the highs (I will probably change that once I can fit a Drone Link Augmenter); 10MN Afterburner/MWD (depending on whether I am doing missions or not), Status Webifier, and med Cap Booster (w/ 800 boosters) in the Mids; Med Armor Rep 1, Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane, 400mm Rolled Tungsten, and a Damage Control in the Lows. I have pretty much fit it the same way I fit frigates, so I may have done it completely wrong.

The thing to remember about the Vexor is that it is a drone ship and your primary damage is going to be coming from drones. Most folks don't even bother fitting guns in the high slots instead fitting a couple of neuts and a NOS or two. Skill wise so that you can hit better with the thorax you will want to train some gunnery skills. Specifically you will want to train the following:

Gunnery (try to get it to lvl 4 or 5)
Sharpshooter (try to get it to lvl 4 or 5)
Rapid Firing (try to get it to lvl 4 or 5)
Surgical Strike (try to get it to lvl 4 or 5)
Trajectory analysis (try to get it to lvl 4 or 5)
Motion Prediction (try to get it to lvl 4 or 5)

The main one that will increase your falloff is trajectory analysis and motion prediction will increase your turret speed. The rest mainly increase damage but those are a few of the key gunnery skills to get. For the vexor you pretty much want to abandon damage dealing from blasters and rely on your drones. You don't get a damage bonus on guns with the vexor instead its on your drones. Not quite sure if you'll be able to get this to fit but here's what I would recommend:

High slots:

3 medium energy neutralizers (best named you can afford)
1 medium energy nosferatu (best named you can afford)

Med slots:

1 warp disruptor (tech II if possible)
10mn Microwarpdrive (tech II or best named)
1 X5 Energy Enervator (not best named web but decent budget solution)
1 medium electrochemical capacitor booster

Lows

1 medium armor repairer (best named you can afford)
1 energized adaptive nano membrane
1 damage control
1 800mm reinforced rolled tungsten plate

Drones:

5 hammerheads
5 warriors

There are other variations to the above fit, some folks fit no tank and all speed, and other folks go with other fits. I find this to be a good fit for newer players. I don't recommend flying a vexor though unless you have some drone skills because otherwise you won't be using it to its full potential.