EVE!

[ichy]

Fallen Kell:

I looked at your plan to train up for heavy interdictors, but if you're interested in PvP my best advice would be to get your skills for flying a battlecruiser as perfect as possible. BCs are relatively affordable and flexible, and a couple extra percentage points of damage or tank here and there can make the difference in a close fight.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Thanks ppatin. That sort of is in my plan. The heavy interdictor would be for when it is needed. I have always had getting BC's to at least lvl IV (currently at lvl III, but I am not flying them yet, heck I am not even flying cruisers yet since I don't have good enough gun skills).

 

[ichy]

IMO it's worth training Battlecruisers all the way to lvl V. Also get your tank and weapons skills for that size ship as high as they will go. I spent a lot of time training for HAC, interdictors, etc, and in hindsight I wish I'd completely maxed out my skills for battlecruisers first. HACs and other Tech II ships are cool, but most of them are so expensive that they're a lot less useful than a properly fit BC.

 

[Michael]

Plus all the skills you learn for a BC translate right over to HACs anyways.

Michael

 

[v8envy]

And HAC/HIC skills + BC V leaves you just a hair short of command ships. Now *those* IMO are "worth it." A better tank than most battleships with comparable DPS, with the agility of a BC. And highly useful in a gang. Command ship skills are not race specific, so you're just cruiser V and a weapon system away from flying command ships for multiple races.

 

[KaOTiK]

I love my Damnation. I have move SP in leadership skills then any other category though lol

 

[ichy]

So I know that sommand ships have a really good tank, but looking at their stats I can't figure out why. They don't seem to have significantly more HPs than battlecruisers, and the shield recharge rate isn't that much higher than a BC's. What am I missing?

 

[Martimus]

So I know that sommand ships have a really good tank, but looking at their stats I can't figure out why. They don't seem to have significantly more HPs than battlecruisers, and the shield recharge rate isn't that much higher than a BC's. What am I missing?

They have T2 resistances. So the effective tank is much greater than the T1 resistances of T1 BCs.

Example:
Damnation
Armor hit points : 4805

Armor EM Damage Resistance : 50%
Armor Explosive Damage Resistance : 80%
Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance : 62.5%
Armor Thermal Damage Resistance : 35%

Prophesy
Armor hit points : 4883

Armor EM Damage Resistance : 50%
Armor Explosive Damage Resistance : 20%
Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance : 25%
Armor Thermal Damage Resistance : 35%

 

[KaOTiK]

Yup, love those resistances. My standard fleet setup has 83/88/87/93 resistances. My roam one has 85/89/87/94.

I use my faction stuff for my roam one since since the fleet has a higher chance of dying

 

[ichy]

Duh, I knew I was missing something. It's a pity that all Caldari ships have non-existent EM resistances.

 

[TheVrolok]

Duh, I knew I was missing something. It's a pity that all Caldari ships have non-existent EM resistances.

There's just so much to pity about Caldari ships.

 

[ichy]

The Drake is a very solid solo or small-scale PvP ship. I'm slowly trying to cross train auto-cannon skills so that I have more variety, but for now it seems to offer great value for money.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Well, command ships have quite a bit of skill requirements before you can jump into them from what I see (well at least for the first race). Some require Heavy Assault IV (and all the associated skills). In other words a lot more time for a new character.

I am still working on my tanking skills, but it is difficult since with minmatar, that means both shield and armor... In anycase, I still have a lot of basic skills that need to get trained up to V. I have been focusing mostly on skills needed to use tech II versions of most ship equipment. Aside from weapons, armor hardeners, and drones, I can use most tech II gear now (well, once Shield Upgrades IV finishes). I really don't want to train many non-int/mem skills until I have to while I am mapped the way I am. And there are still plenty of those skills that I need still for my intended plan.

Also, for autocannon, unless you are using a minmatar ship, I would say forget about it. The ships are what makes them have the damage, as they all give speed and damage bonuses. Otherwise you would see plenty of Amarr ships fitted with projectile weapons because of the no capacitor use and just be super tanks that no one can break while doing massive damage at the same time.

 

[Martimus]

Also, for autocannon, unless you are using a minmatar ship, I would say forget about it. The ships are what makes them have the damage, as they all give speed and damage bonuses. Otherwise you would see plenty of Amarr ships fitted with projectile weapons because of the no capacitor use and just be super tanks that no one can break while doing massive damage at the same time.

Yes, but since he is already flying a Drake proficiently, training for a hurricane only takes ~5 days of training. (Training Minmatar Frigate to 4, Min Cruiser to 3). The autocannons would be useful for a second PvP ship to fly. Although most Hurricanes are armor tanked, to make use of the mid slots for support modules.

Probably more useful would be to train for the Cyclone, since it uses missiles, and doesn't require the extra skills to fit new guns. But it takes the same skills to train both ships, so training for the Hurricane will automatically allow you to fly the Cyclone.

 

[TheVrolok]

The Drake is a very solid solo or small-scale PvP ship. I'm slowly trying to cross train auto-cannon skills so that I have more variety, but for now it seems to offer great value for money.

My "primary alt" account is a Caldari pilot as I wanted some strong EWAR backup, but man, aside from that, Caldari ship pickings are slim. The Drake is definitely awesome though. Great for PvE, and great for PvP.

 

[ichy]

My "primary alt" account is a Caldari pilot as I wanted some strong EWAR backup, but man, aside from that, Caldari ship pickings are slim. The Drake is definitely awesome though. Great for PvE, and great for PvP.

They also make good PvE ships. Running missions sucks, but sometimes you need to bust out the Raven to earn some ISK.

Other Caldari ships also have their uses. The Cerberus is great at its rather specialized role, although way too expensive for what I currently do. The Caracal isn't bad as cruisers go, although I don't see very many of them out in low/null-sec. In hindsight I'm not sure I would've gone Caldari as my first choice, but right now the Drake serves me very well.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think the caldari chips require lots of skills to pilot effectively. Look at all of the shield tank skills vs armor tank skills. Its no comparison in skill point sink.

 

[Martimus]

I think the caldari chips require lots of skills to pilot effectively. Look at all of the shield tank skills vs armor tank skills. Its no comparison in skill point sink.

I noticed that too when I went to train for shields. Also, how many missile skills are there? I decided to make my Caldari alt have the ability to actually fly a Raven to run L4 missions while I run fleets, but there are like 20 different missile skills! I have no idea what they do, and am too lazy to figure out which ones I need to train. I started training for a Domi with him instead, since I have a Missioning Domi stuck in High-sec from my main anyway.

 

[TheVrolok]

I think the caldari chips require lots of skills to pilot effectively. Look at all of the shield tank skills vs armor tank skills. Its no comparison in skill point sink.

I'd agree with that, they're ships are spread pretty well over EWAR/hybrids/missiles. More so than say, Amarr, which is essentially just lasers/neuts

 

[Fallen Kell]

I noticed that too when I went to train for shields. Also, how many missile skills are there? I decided to make my Caldari alt have the ability to actually fly a Raven to run L4 missions while I run fleets, but there are like 20 different missile skills! I have no idea what they do, and am too lazy to figure out which ones I need to train. I started training for a Domi with him instead, since I have a Missioning Domi stuck in High-sec from my main anyway.

In terms of missile skills it really isn't any different than any other weapon system skills. The only addition is a basic operations skill. After that it is short range or long range, you choose, and then frigate/cruiser/bs/cap/titan variants. Again, no different than any other weapon.

I do agree with you about the shields. There are a lot of skills, but part of that is because you really can truly have a passive shield tank, unlike with armor (you still need to repair your armor with an active skill). They also broke up the upgrades and capacity (shield upgrades and shield operations), so you have individual skills for each of those things unlike armor where it is the same skill (Hull Upgrades).

And unfortunately for the Caldari, there is just no overcoming the EM hole in their resistances for shield. Both Amarr and Minmatar will simply switch to high EM damage ammo (if they are not already using it), and even Gallente will switch to EM damage droids and missiles/rockets. I mean, even their Tech II ships have no EM resistance!

 

[KaOTiK]

Lasers don't get the luxury of switching damage types. Primary damage type for lasers if EM and secondary is Thermal. The only option lasers gets is short or long range crystal types lol.

 

[v8envy]

Missile skills are a lot easier to get "decent" (read: tech2) than guns. For starters, you don't need 'V's in the lower level guns to use the higher level ones -- you can use T2 torps without having trained rockets or HAMs to the max, in other words. Also, since the missile support skills give you relatively little return compared to gunnery support skills those can be skimped on (read: only trained to IV). Missiles are *very* newbie friendly.

Likewise passive (read: buffer) shield tanking. For an active tank, whether armor or shield, you need great capacitor and fitting skills. For a passive tank, not so much.

That's why I recommend training Caldari first, whether it's for pve or pvp. You can be effective quicker, then spend the next year or two on support and drone skills while effective enough out of the gate. Amarr may rock, but I've seen waaay too many new characters get behind the wheel of an Amarr BS and wonder why they can't shoot, move and work their tank at the same time.

Most smallish gang PvP is all about the mid slots. Guess which race has the most mid slots?

As far as viable caldari ships: eagle, cerb, onyx, blackbird, scorpion, drake and raven are all very solid ships which do their role admirably well with plenty of flexibility in fit and tactics.

Oh yes, and projectiles work very well on the Myrm.

 

[Martimus]

Most smallish gang PvP is all about the mid slots. Guess which race has the most mid slots?

You keep saying that, but since Caldari are exclusively shield tankers, they actually usually have the fewest useful mid-slots. The Myrmidon has the most useful (non-tank) mid slots of the BCs, not the Drake. I can fit a SEBO, MWD, Point, Web and Cap booster on my Myrmidon, while even with the light tank I put on my Ferox, I can only fit a MWD, Point, and Web on the ship in terms of support equipment.

You could always bastardize the ships to get more support equipment, but then you would be ignoring the inherent bonuses of the ships and there are likely more specialized ships that would work better.

I love having Caldari pilots, since they can bring out Scorpions and Falcons, but to say that all their ships have useful mid-slots isn't really accurate.

 

[Lonbjerg]

You keep saying that, but since Caldari are exclusively shield tankers, they actually usually have the fewest useful mid-slots. The Myrmidon has the most useful (non-tank) mid slots of the BCs, not the Drake. I can fit a SEBO, MWD, Point, Web and Cap booster on my Myrmidon, while even with the light tank I put on my Ferox, I can only fit a MWD, Point, and Web on the ship in terms of support equipment.

You could always bastardize the ships to get more support equipment, but then you would be ignoring the inherent bonuses of the ships and there are likely more specialized ships that would work better.

I love having Caldari pilots, since they can bring out Scorpions and Falcons, but to say that all their ships have useful mid-slots isn't really accurate.

That is why a Caldari only truley shines in gangs, with dedicated tacklers...and ECM
But there Caldari is actually quite nasty...

 

[Michael]

Ravens get primaried and die quick. However, they do good damage before they die.

Drakes are only good in blobs at medium range. They really shine there.

Michael