EVE!

[KaOTiK]

It really is better to just use an alt to train for manufacturing cause you'll need to invest a lot of time to get your skills high enough to actually compete with either selling against others or just making items for cheaper then you could buy them for.

I also seriously doubt your skills are all up to par for PvP before moving into cap ships unless you are just wanting to specialize in one ship only.

 

[Fallen Kell]

The jump to capital ships is expensive in terms of isk. It isn't really too bad in terms of skill points if you really trained your character to begin with. I think the only skill that most people wouldn't have is shield operations 5 (for capital shields) jump drive operations and advanced spaceship command.

 

[TheVrolok]

The jump to capital ships is expensive in terms of isk. It isn't really too bad in terms of skill points if you really trained your character to begin with. I think the only skill that most people wouldn't have is shield operations 5 (for capital shields) jump drive operations and advanced spaceship command.

There is a vast, vast difference between being able to get INTO a cap, and being able to FLY the cap with any sort of competence. From day 1, you can get INTO a cap in say.. 3 months, but it would take another maybe 9-10 months to be able to fit/fly it well. At least.

 

[Martimus]

It really is better to just use an alt to train for manufacturing cause you'll need to invest a lot of time to get your skills high enough to actually compete with either selling against others or just making items for cheaper then you could buy them for.

I also seriously doubt your skills are all up to par for PvP before moving into cap ships unless you are just wanting to specialize in one ship only.

While this is true, you also have to take into account that it is something different that can be interesting and fun. I do some manufacturing on the side, and I find it fun to make my own stuff. While it is best to speciallize in a few things, it can get boring when you don't get into anything new for a while - and probably the best part of this game is that there are so many things possible to do that you can try new things out when you get bored. (It is still a game, and is meant to be fun)

I do have most of the basic manufacturing and refining skills maxed out, which only took maybe 2 months of game time to do. I am sure there are others as well, but I usually refine and manufacture near 100% efficiently, (refining was at ~99% last time I checked, and I get perfect manufacturing on all the BPO's I have) so it isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Martimus]

There is a vast, vast difference between being able to get INTO a cap, and being able to FLY the cap with any sort of competence. From day 1, you can get INTO a cap in say.. 3 months, but it would take another maybe 9-10 months to be able to fit/fly it well. At least.

I am training to fly a carrier, and I have found that the skills I want to fly it will only take about 3 months from where I am. I don't doubt that I am missing some things, so can I ask you what carrier specific skills I need to fly that I should train? I currently have capital armor, energy transfer, and shield transfer set to train to L4, all the Jump Drive skills to L4, and Fighters to L4 (and the triage skill to L4, but I can't remember what it was called). Are there any skills that I am missing there?

 

[TheVrolok]

I am training to fly a carrier, and I have found that the skills I want to fly it will only take about 3 months from where I am. I don't doubt that I am missing some things, so can I ask you what carrier specific skills I need to fly that I should train? I currently have capital armor, energy transfer, and shield transfer set to train to L4, all the Jump Drive skills to L4, and Fighters to L4 (and the triage skill to L4, but I can't remember what it was called). Are there any skills that I am missing there?

That sounds about right to me. You're an early '09 char, so I imagine you had a pretty sound base. I just grabbed EVEMon and checked what it would take to get into a properly fit Niddy from where he is currently (he's just a ~3mil SP freighter/transport alt), and the skill plan was about 320d with all learning skills at 4, and a full set of +4's.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I am training to fly a carrier, and I have found that the skills I want to fly it will only take about 3 months from where I am. I don't doubt that I am missing some things, so can I ask you what carrier specific skills I need to fly that I should train? I currently have capital armor, energy transfer, and shield transfer set to train to L4, all the Jump Drive skills to L4, and Fighters to L4 (and the triage skill to L4, but I can't remember what it was called). Are there any skills that I am missing there?

I think you have it from what I understand. Again, that really isn't too bad and not very hard if you had already had your character trained properly to begin with for flying T2 BS's and crusiers.

 

[v8envy]

IMO you need the cap ship jump range affecting skill to V. It's a pain in the butt to re-plan your jumps just because one guy can't make it all the way. You can leave jump drive compensation (fuel savings) at IV or lower, it's not that critical to save a few hunred K per jump.

Unfortunately, the difference between all skills at IV and all at V is pretty drastic when it comes to caps. If enemy intel is at all good they'll notice a young-ish pilot driving a cap ship and act appropriately.

Niddy is a bad example -- you need perfect projectile, missile and drone skills to make one work. Try the Revelation if you want to shave at least a month off the training time. Phoenix is even faster. Also, factor in 2 skill remaps (assuming new character).

I grew competent cap pilot from nothing in about 2 years, but that was the only focus from creation day. She was usable for carrier hauling/logistics after about 6 months. I'd guestimate 20M as bare minimum to be competent behind the wheel of a carrier OR dread (not both) assuming no "wasted" skills -- and that's with 4 of that in navigation (remember there's no need for MWD or afterburner on a cap). Closer to 30M to fly both.

 

[TheVrolok]

I
Niddy is a bad example -- you need perfect projectile, missile and drone skills to make one work. Try the Revelation if you want to shave at least a month off the training time. Phoenix is even faster. Also, factor in 2 skill remaps (assuming new character).

Yeah, but who wants to fly a lolpheonix?

 

[KaOTiK]

In my experience cap fleets plan their jumps around a dread pilot with jump skill at 4. Taking it to 5 is nice, but certainly isn't a big deal either.

 

[Martimus]

IMO you need the cap ship jump range affecting skill to V. It's a pain in the butt to re-plan your jumps just because one guy can't make it all the way. You can leave jump drive compensation (fuel savings) at IV or lower, it's not that critical to save a few hunred K per jump.

Thanks. I will add that to my queue. I think I have the skills I need down now, and I am glad I asked here where I ended up with a few people that said that I wasn't missing any major skills. I feel a little more confident that I am not missing some major skill that I will need when I actually use my Carrier.

 

[TheVrolok]

In my experience cap fleets plan their jumps around a dread pilot with jump skill at 4. Taking it to 5 is nice, but certainly isn't a big deal either.

That's what we usually do, 5 is great, but the train blows.

 

[Michael]

I have carrier 5, Jump Calibration 5 and am doing Fighter 5 now. Of course, I am a 2006 character with over 70M SP ...

Michael

 

[ichy]

All this talk of cap ships is making me start training capital ship skills. I feel like a flake bouncing from one skill area to another, but most of the time I fly a Drake and there isn't too much left I can do to boost my skills for that. Heavy missile and HAM skills are all maxed, as are my shield tanking skills along with battlecruisers and caldari cruisers.

Oh yeah, I also realized I'm going to lose several hours of training time on my alt because I'm finishing Electronics Upgrade 5 and don't have another skill queued. Damnit.

 

[Martimus]

All this talk of cap ships is making me start training capital ship skills. I feel like a flake bouncing from one skill area to another, but most of the time I fly a Drake and there isn't too much left I can do to boost my skills for that. Heavy missile and HAM skills are all maxed, as are my shield tanking skills along with battlecruisers and caldari cruisers.

Oh yeah, I also realized I'm going to lose several hours of training time on my alt because I'm finishing Electronics Upgrade 5 and don't have another skill queued. Damnit.

I have done that on more than one occasion. A lot of times when I clone jump, I forget to start the training queue again as well. If you lose a few hours, it is no big deal really.

 

[Fallen Kell]

But it does suck. I will usually put a long train skill at the end of an alt after the specific skill I am training the alt for, so at worst, there is someone still training. I need to get my butt moving on my "main" character... He is still setup for int/mem because there are too many of those basic skills he needs to max.

 

[ichy]

For those of you who do know something about cap ships, what's a good place to read up on the basics of using dreadnoughts and carriers? As you've probably figured out I generally stick to battlecruisers or smaller ships, so once I have the skills I have no idea how I'd go about fitting or using a carrier or dread.

 

[KaOTiK]

It really depends on which one you are planning to fly (though dreads and carriers share a lot the same needed skills) and what you plan to do with them.

For a dread they are POS bash mobiles and for use against other caps. They can't hit shit if a ship isn't cap size unless it is painted to hell and webbed.

Carriers, you get some options. If you are going to use it for PvE then you can play to whichever carriers strength they have, but for a cap fleet you'll have to armor tank.

Basically for either of them you'll need your armor tanking skills high as well cap repair. For carriers you'll need cap RR and excellent drone skills across the board. Dreads you'll need excellent gun skills.

For most people caps aren't worth it imo and you probably wont be using it as much as you think unless you are running anomalies. If you are in an alliance that supplies the cap during a CTA then it is worth it but for the average person na.

IMO ichy, since you are use to smaller ships just work your way up slowly. Get comfortable with a BS as the skills used for that will transfer over to a cap anyways. Or start looking into other ship types like a HAC. All depends on what your goals are.

Caps are nice but they have limited use really and for pvp situations you really need to be in the company of a couple of other caps cause otherwise everyone and their mother that knows a single cap is around get a fleet together to kill it, everyone loves a cap killmail

 

[ichy]

IMO ichy, since you are use to smaller ships just work your way up slowly. Get comfortable with a BS as the skills used for that will transfer over to a cap anyways. Or start looking into other ship types like a HAC. All depends on what your goals are.

I've got pretty good BS skills already, but I don't use them much for PvP at this point. Most of my skills are geared toward Caldari ships, and Rokhs and Ravens aren't really used much in small scale PvP. HACs aren't really worth the expense. The Cerberus is a cool ship, but unless you need a long range missile sniper it's far too expensive compared to the Drake.

Don't worry, I'm not going to run out and buy a dreadnought and promptly get it blown to bits. I just want to start learning the basics of how to use a capital ship.

 

[KaOTiK]

Maybe cross train into another races ships? Caladari caps are rather lackluster next to the others.

Best way to learn is really doing ops alongside cap ships. See how they are used and and what the FC expects from them.

HAC's are awesome btw

 

[ichy]

Maybe cross train into another races ships? Caladari caps are rather lackluster next to the others.

I've been training the skills to fly a Hurricane properly on and off for a while. A lot of Caldari ships aren't the greatest, but the Drake is pretty good for my purposes. With HAMs it's a great PvP ship, and with heavy missiles it works well for ratting & plexxing. I have heard that Caldari capital ships, especially the Phoenix, are pretty mediocre, so I might work on my ship skills for another race.

 

[JSt0rm]

I've been training the skills to fly a Hurricane properly on and off for a while. A lot of Caldari ships aren't the greatest, but the Drake is pretty good for my purposes. With HAMs it's a great PvP ship, and with heavy missiles it works well for ratting & plexxing. I have heard that Caldari capital ships, especially the Phoenix, are pretty mediocre, so I might work on my ship skills for another race.

I think as a caldari pilot minmitar is the best next move. Your missile skills wont be wasted and you get into some of the highest skill ships in the game.

 

[Merad]

Do any of you guys do much in the way of trading? I'm dabbling in it in the hopes of funding my pew pew this time around with something other than pure mission grinding or ratting. The main thing that's frustrating so far is finding what's worth trading, since the EVE market is kind of clunky and only lets you view one item at once. Are there any 3rd party tools that help out with this?

 

[Ross Ridge]

There's EVE Central, but finding stuff to trade isn't that hard. I'm not sure why being able to view the market details about more than one item a time would be particularily helpful. One in game tool that can be helpful is the market history graph. You can at a glance see what the volatility is like, whether the volume is large enough to bother with, and if there might be chance to buy or sell an item at better price than the current average.

 

[JSt0rm]

Do any of you guys do much in the way of trading? I'm dabbling in it in the hopes of funding my pew pew this time around with something other than pure mission grinding or ratting. The main thing that's frustrating so far is finding what's worth trading, since the EVE market is kind of clunky and only lets you view one item at once. Are there any 3rd party tools that help out with this?

thats the golden goose. Learn to read the history of a few items and really "know" them. I personally go for high % returns even if its slower moving and low maintenance on the orders. I use trading/datacores/pi to fund my pvp. Although I have been doing some 0.0 ratting and those items should bring good money if I can get them through 40 jumps of null sec lmao :twisted:

When I first started I noticed a great opportunity in jita trading and grabbed hold (its gone now, some fuck is running 2% margins). I flipped my money on that into a nice nest egg of around 700 million. Now I'm sitting on a billion of inventory and a billion cash. I could lose drakes forever.