EVE!

[TheVrolok]

Yup, EvE got nerfed and dumbed down...slippery sloped has begun.

Now you're just trolling. Unless you can tell us how exactly it got nerfed and dumbed down.

 

[nsafreak]

Well I'm what most folks would consider a person that's been playing the game for a while (been playing since 2005 to be specific) and pretty much everybody that I've talked to is glad for this change. Keep in mind these are well experienced players that have been playing as long or longer than I have. Nobody has ever liked the learning skills and vets and newbies alike have hated to wait around a month to get done with all of the learning skills so the rest of our skillplans could complete. The vets understood why we needed to train the learning skills but it doesn't mean that we liked it. Now it'll be much quicker to train up characters that'll be useful for whatever purpose we're working. Plus we get the bonus of redistributing our learning skill SPs when they remove them. For me personally I figure that should put a fair dent into Gallente Carrier V.

 

[JSt0rm]

Its a good change. I station spinned a alt for 4 months. Imagine being new with no contacts in game. Ok you dont know if you even like the game but you were intelligent enough to read that you need learning skills to min/max the sp (we all want to min/max sp) so 2 or 3 months later you can begin to try and play without a gimp.

 

[TheVrolok]

I'm guessing Lonbjerg is just one of those guys who made isk making new chars with +5's/max learning skills and selling them on the bazaar. Only reason to be bitter about this change.

 

[heat901]

I don't play anymore but I did find it absurd how you had to train skills before training to fly and use other modules. I think this was a good change and nor do I think it dumbs down eve considering eve is still a brick wall of learning curve.

 

[Michael]

I'm in favour of the change and I'll get 2.8M SP to decide what to spend them on. Maybe dread to 5, maybe will take Caldari BS to 5 and then spend on a few other skills. The benefit of Dread to 5 is that they are "expensive" SP in terms of time.

Myrdin

 

[Lonbjerg]

EvE was about the choices you make...and every choice has consequences.

One of those were learning skills.
Invest and benefit in the the long run.
No instant "WFTPWNLOL!!!"...but a long term reward.

Now the ADHD crow won once again (remaps being the begining)...EvE is bein umbed down, in order to get more subcribers.

It's gone form "we care about THE game" to "we care about more money".

Slippery slope.

Soon there wil be a "Battleships are to hard to train to max"...you just wait and see.

EvE is getting to carebearish...I don't care care the I get +5 mil SP to redistrubte.

I go from 2772 SP/H to 2700 SP/H, (and don't eve get to +60 mil ISK refunded for my injected learing skills)...now every acme ADHD teens start on the same level as the rest...for free....that is dumbing down EvE...but I guess the need more teens...due to Dust514 and "walking in stations"...

 

[Drift3r]

EvE was about the choices you make...and every choice has consequences.

One of those were learning skills.
Invest and benefit in the the long run.
No instant "WFTPWNLOL!!!"...but a long term reward.

Now the ADHD crow won once again (remaps being the begining)...EvE is bein umbed down, in order to get more subcribers.

It's gone form "we care about THE game" to "we care about more money".

Slippery slope.

Soon there wil be a "Battleships are to hard to train to max"...you just wait and see.

EvE is getting to carebearish...I don't care care the I get +5 mil SP to redistrubte.

I go from 2772 SP/H to 2700 SP/H, (and don't eve get to +60 mil ISK refunded for my injected learing skills)...now every acme ADHD teens start on the same level as the rest...for free....that is dumbing down EvE...but I guess the need more teens...due to Dust514 and "walking in stations"...

What the hell are you talking about? You still have to make choices in EVE when it comes to training and setting up your attributes and creating a training plan for skills. Not to mention the actual in game knowledge and skill needed to actually accomplish a myriad of goals in eve such as being proficient in pvp (fc'ing, tackling, solo gank work, knowledge of what the pro's and cons of different ship types, etc..) or market and industry dynamics all of which have nothing to do with the time sink known as learning skills or the time it takes to train said learning skills. Then there is the issue of the EVE developers mentioning that they wanted to remove these learning skills for about 3 years now but only until recently have they gotten around to doing so while implementing a method to refund those skill points to players. You also don't seem to understand how this will help new players (and old players rolling alts) get into the meat of the game faster and thus help the population and keep the game going with new active subs.

In the end you haven't presented any valid or persuasive reasons to back up your assertion that they are "dumbing down the game" and why removing learning skills is not a wise decision. In fact your points pretty much fall flat and moot when takes in considerations the flaws in your argument.

 

[Ross Ridge]

Now the ADHD crow won once again (remaps being the begining) ...

Uh, remaps aren't going away.

Not wanting to wait months to play a game you've just spent $20 doesn't mean you have ADHD. Indeed being willing to do so with your first character in EVE suggests that you might have far more serious issues.

I don't care care the I get +5 mil SP to redistrubte.

I go from 2772 SP/H to 2700 SP/H, (and don't eve get to +60 mil ISK refunded for my injected learing skills)

So you don't care about getting 5,376,000 SP back, but do care about losing 72 SP/hour. Do you really think you're still going to be playing in 8.5 years? I'm sensing a rage-quit coming from you much sooner than that. Even if you're still playing in 10 years (and EVE still exists), can't you invest that 5M SP in something that will make those 10 years a lot more productive and fun?

(And, really if not getting that 12M ISK per character back in the injected skill books really matters to you, just quit already.)

Seriously, all you've lost is the right to brag that you had what it took (eg. OCD) to spend three months doing nothing but training up the learning skills to max. That is, assuming those characters had an additional 3.6 years of training time and could actually start benefitting from it.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Uh, remaps aren't going away.

Not wanting to wait months to play a game you've just spent $20 doesn't mean you have ADHD. Indeed being willing to do so with your first character in EVE suggests that you might have far more serious issues.

EvE is diffrent from other MMO's...now not so different.

So you don't care about getting 5,376,000 SP back, but do care about losing 72 SP/hour. Do you really think you're still going to be playing in 8.5 years? I'm sensing a rage-quit coming from you much sooner than that. Even if you're still playing in 10 years (and EVE still exists), can't you invest that 5M SP in something that will make those 10 years a lot more productive and fun?

(And, really if not getting that 12M ISK per character back in the injected skill books really matters to you, just quit already.)

Seriously, all you've lost is the right to brag that you had what it took (eg. OCD) to spend three months doing nothing but training up the learning skills to max. That is, assuming those characters had an additional 3.6 years of training time and could actually start benefitting from it.

I didn't train those skills in one sweep, I "somehow" managed to get them in between other skills going fra Frigs -> Cruisers -> BC -> BS and still have fun...and make ISK.

And this is what I am talking about, the game catering to the masses, not like from the begining, catering to those who could think long term.

I don't intended to rage quit...I will just take it out on new players...that made the false assumption that EvE is safe...or easy.

My bet is that I can make more people ragequit than the learning skills ever could...so I too get something out of this...although my Security status will fluctuate quite rampant...

EvE...still the best place for tears...not matter how soft CCP tries to make the game.

 

[CrazyAznDriver]

I've just bought this game during the steam sale. Should I wait until these changes take place to start or start now?

 

[TheVrolok]

I didn't train those skills in one sweep, I "somehow" managed to get them in between other skills going fra Frigs -> Cruisers -> BC -> BS and still have fun...and make ISK.

And this is what I am talking about, the game catering to the masses, not like from the begining, catering to those who could think long term.

I don't intended to rage quit...I will just take it out on new players...that made the false assumption that EvE is safe...or easy.

My bet is that I can make more people ragequit than the learning skills ever could...so I too get something out of this...although my Security status will fluctuate quite rampant...

EvE...still the best place for tears...not matter how soft CCP tries to make the game.

Again.. how exactly does removing learning skills MAKE THE GAME ANY EASIER? ABSOLUTELY NO MECHANIC HAS CHANGED.. except now, you don't need to waste time training learning skills. How, exactly, does people getting some skills a few days earlier make the game easy? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

 

[Ross Ridge]

I've just bought this game during the steam sale. Should I wait until these changes take place to start or start now?

Other than the fact the first installment of the next expansion is coming out on the 30th, there's no reason to wait. You'll start earning SP now, so you'll always be ahead of where you'd be if you waited until the December 14th (or possibly later if things get delayed). However, Tuesday is a patch day, and patch days can be very messy. If you start now your second day of EVE could consist of just waiting around for the servers come back up. I'd wait until December 1st, hopefully everything will be back to normal by then.

 

[ibex333]

Is it just me or is it really difficult to find a good corporation in EVE? Every time I join a corp, they end up gettign into a stupid, pointless war which hinders my trading activities and leaves me sitting in a station.

I tried joining a corp that would teach me PvP, but that is always a complete faliure. Most corps dont concern themselves with logistics, and they damn well should! I remember how many times the corpmates would tell me to come join them 25 jumps from my location. Off course no one bothered to drag all the necessary components there, so I have to waste my time flying around to purchase all the necessary junk to fit my ship, wasting several hours i nthe process, then I fly 25 jumps to meet these guys, just to hear them tell me that my ship sucks, and so does my setup, and I do not have the necessary skills to contribute to their gatecamp.... Then they end up flying from gate to gate hunting down a few targets.... We finally find a command ship near a station and everyone starts shooting him. So what? He just crawls back to the station and docks... We just wasted 5 hours on this nonesense. I have to go to work the next day, and I wanted to have some FUN before this, but I ended up just wasting 5 hours!

What about those silly pirate corps that allow anyone to join, in any ship, gather up into a big blob and go to lowsec to fight aimlessly with no particular direction and no order? I been playing eve for 4 years but I never found such a corp.

The biggest issue I see most of the time is that people recruit members but they dont actually DO the stuff they advertized to be doing in that corp. I joined plenty of PvP corps to find out there's virtually no PvP going on, and plenty of mining corps just to find out that there's no mining going on. and then they tell me... Waht do you want? People have real life to worry about!!!

Well excuse, me, I have a life too, but I allocate 2-3 hours in the evening or weekends to play EVE and I actually want to DO somethign during that time. If the corp in quesion doesnt do anyting or does things very randomly, and rarely, why recruit people at all?

It seems like CCP is doing so much to make the process of findign and joining a corp as easy as possible but for me this is a truly impossible task.

 

[TheVrolok]

Is it just me or is it really difficult to find a good corporation in EVE? Every time I join a corp, they end up gettign into a stupid, pointless war which hinders my trading activities and leaves me sitting in a station.

I've only been in 2 corps (my main, that is - my alts sometimes rotate through random corps for different purposes) for the nearly 3 years I've been playing EVE. Why? Because they are a fantastic fit.

Your corp really depends on what you want to do. If you want to learn PvP, I'd honestly just say try joining one of the Faction Warfare corps for a bit, or join one of the newbie friendly FW PC corps. I honestly believe that FW is a fantastic way to learn the fundamentals for skirmish PvP. Obviously there will be certain things you won't be as exposed to, but I've found much better PvPers in FW than I ever did in null. Or, try joining up with the corp the other ATers are in. I'm sure Michael/Martimus would be happy to have you around, seems like they've brought a few ATers under their wings.

 

[Martimus]

Sometimes corps get into lulls. I am currently in a lull in the game myself. I went out and spent a few hours blowing up two cruisers and a Cane two days ago, then I led a fleet to take out a small gang of a Tengu, Pilgrim and Myrmidon yesterday (each has a good story behind it, with failure to go along with the success). Before that, I haven't been doing much since I have a lot of things to do in preparation of Christmas.

I see the problem as people expecting others to organize all the activities. If you want to go on a roam, organize it yourself. If there are a lot of likeminded people in your corp/alliance/coallition, then you will get a bunch of volunteers to join you and you will have a good time. If not, you should probably find a new corp that has people who have the same types of interests that you do.

At the moment, our activity level seems to have come back to normal with the new expansion out so I dont' see it as much of a problem at the moment. Although, everyone seems to wait for me to lead all our roams the last few days. I'm not sure why?

 

[nsafreak]

Is it just me or is it really difficult to find a good corporation in EVE? Every time I join a corp, they end up gettign into a stupid, pointless war which hinders my trading activities and leaves me sitting in a station.

It all depends on how you go about finding the corp in question that you want to join. When I first got involved in the game I just went solo and went pirating. I came across some other guys that shared the same interest and were in a corp and I joined them. I didn't join them just because we shared the same interest in pirating but because I got to know them by chatting with them for a couple of weeks. I flew with them for a few years before I moved on to my next corp which I found in pretty much the same manner. I got into my current corp (EVOL) by word of mouth as well although I had heard of them long before putting in an application. I mean, who hasn't heard of SirMolle? I think in EVE it's very similar in some ways in getting a real job in the real world. The key is networking with other players and finding out which corps are worth your time in trying to join and which corps are total jokes. So what I recommend doing is hang out in the public channel of the corp you're interested in, if they have one, and see if you mesh with them. See what they're doing on a regular basis and after a week or two you should have a decent idea as to whether the corp is for you or not.

 

[Ross Ridge]

... Every time I join a corp, they end up gettign into a stupid, pointless war which hinders my trading activities and leaves me sitting in a station.

You might want to create an alt in a NPC corp for this. You don't need much in the way of skills to make money trading.

 

[ibex333]

I do about 110m/hour missioning. It adds up quickly. I have 0 income (outside of loans) in RL, so I won't be buying GTCs anytime soon .. although with the rise in PLEX prices it's quite a bit more cost effective than it used to be. Like 40 bucks for 650m or so?

Please dont lie. Why is it that so many people lie in EVE? I keep hearing how everyone makes 50-100m/hour missioning, but I personally tested this to be completely untrue.

1)Missions are extremely time consuming it takes several hours to tomplete a typical L4.
2)Missions are extremely hard, and most setups that people list dont actually work in practice. I flew a T2 Raven, and never had enough cap to do BOTH good damage and have my shield lasting permanantly. Some people run shields in bursts, but I found this to be way too stressful.
3)I trained up to a Golem and yet I still cant to missions. Cruises and Torps cant efficiently kill anyting smaller than a Battleship, and painters require too much training. I have good drone skills but they are very inefficient i nmission and they constantly die. The worst thing though is that the enemy in missions always manages to break my tank. I am using a good, popular fit, my skills are very high, with most maxed out, and yet my shield still gets broken, plus, it doesnt last! It runs out only i na few minutes forcing me to warp out.

I get about 20m in rewards for every 2-3 hour mission. The loot is complete and utter garbage most of the time. Not worth it at all imho. I may have gotten more if I was salvaging, but who has time for that?

 

[KaOTiK]

Please dont lie. Why is it that so many people lie in EVE? I keep hearing how everyone makes 50-100m/hour missioning, but I personally tested this to be completely untrue.

1)Missions are extremely time consuming it takes several hours to tomplete a typical L4.
2)Missions are extremely hard, and most setups that people list dont actually work in practice. I flew a T2 Raven, and never had enough cap to do BOTH good damage and have my shield lasting permanantly. Some people run shields in bursts, but I found this to be way too stressful.
3)I trained up to a Golem and yet I still cant to missions. Cruises and Torps cant efficiently kill anyting smaller than a Battleship, and painters require too much training. I have good drone skills but they are very inefficient i nmission and they constantly die. The worst thing though is that the enemy in missions always manages to break my tank. I am using a good, popular fit, my skills are very high, with most maxed out, and yet my shield still gets broken, plus, it doesnt last! It runs out only i na few minutes forcing me to warp out.

I get about 20m in rewards for every 2-3 hour mission. The loot is complete and utter garbage most of the time. Not worth it at all imho. I may have gotten more if I was salvaging, but who has time for that?

He isn't lying, people can do make 100m + per hour missioning. It is possible but you need to know exactly what missions to run and have very good skills for it. Most people can't make that but there are some that can.

50m an hour is pretty normal for a dedicated mission runner, just cause you aren't pulling those numbers doesn't mean it is possible.

 

[Martimus]

He isn't lying, people can do make 100m + per hour missioning. It is possible but you need to know exactly what missions to run and have very good skills for it. Most people can't make that but there are some that can.

50m an hour is pretty normal for a dedicated mission runner, just cause you aren't pulling those numbers doesn't mean it is possible.

I made about 40M ISK for a good mission using a tank/drone Domi back when I would run L4 missions for ISK. I would just run one a day, and farm the good ones. The one that I could make 40M from was the Blood Raiders version of Blockade, where I would make ~15M from bounties, and ~25M from the large Trimark that I made out of the salvage I got from the wrecks.

The Domi could easily tank the whole room, with about 900 DPS tank to blood raider damage, although clearing the room with only drones took time. That was fine, because while my drones killed all the rats, I would salvage with the two tractor, two salvager setup I had in the high slots. The other two slots were for a rail gun for aggro, and a drone link augmentor for additional drone range. The Domi is cap stable with 3 CCC's and 5 Cap recharger 2's when you are running 2 large armor reps and 4 hardeners.

That said, I don't run missions anymore, since I am very flashy red, and my mission hub is in High Sec. (plus my style was very AFK, and you can't use that AFK style in low-sec.)

 

[Lonbjerg]

Please dont lie. Why is it that so many people lie in EVE? I keep hearing how everyone makes 50-100m/hour missioning, but I personally tested this to be completely untrue.

1)Missions are extremely time consuming it takes several hours to tomplete a typical L4.

Not even Enemies Abound or Worlds Collide takes hours to complete.
Some even take ~15 minuttes max (eg. Dou of Death)

Skill up EvE please.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Please dont lie. Why is it that so many people lie in EVE? I keep hearing how everyone makes 50-100m/hour missioning, but I personally tested this to be completely untrue.

3)I trained up to a Golem and yet I still cant to missions. Cruises and Torps cant efficiently kill anyting smaller than a Battleship, and painters require too much training. I have good drone skills but they are very inefficient i nmission and they constantly die. The worst thing though is that the enemy in missions always manages to break my tank. I am using a good, popular fit, my skills are very high, with most maxed out, and yet my shield still gets broken, plus, it doesnt last! It runs out only i na few minutes forcing me to warp out.

Please post you Golem fit, something tells me it's a bad fitting issue as a I know 3 x TP Golems that do +9000 Volley...

 

[JSt0rm]

My problem with blitzing level 4 missions is I only picked the missions vs pirate factions and that does slow you down. But if you dont give a shit about standing you can blow through them quick.

 

[Lonbjerg]

My problem with blitzing level 4 missions is I only picked the missions vs pirate factions and that does slow you down. But if you dont give a shit about standing you can blow through them quick.

Look at the location of your agent.
I (running from Caldari space) get Guristas, Serpentis or Blood Raider mission.
I could pick a different agent (also in Caldari space) and get mostly missions against Gallente.

Perhaps you shold find a agent with a better location than your current?