EVE!

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin

Originally posted by: SunnyD
What everyone fails to understand is that EVE is a simulation, not a game.

It is certainly not a simulation of space flight. Physics is thrown out the window.
As people have commented:

Submarines in space.

Noone ever said it was an accurate simulation.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
I can't believe people are bitching about the autopilot NOT warping you to 0 and automatically jumping? Do you want the game to hold your hand, too? The autopilot is a convenience in high/mid sec, but you really believe you should be able to fly around low sec space while AFK and have nothing to worry about? Please go play WoW on a PvE server, carebears.

Who said anything about low sec? If you're going to get all insulting you need to muster up some reading comprehension first:

Originally posted by: Smilin
Travel from point A to B in the game gets boring as all sh1t. It is the most unpleasant part of the game that I have found. It's worse than grinding.

So if I want to autopilot through a bunch of high security space while I go grab a snack I should be able to do so. Getting "punished" for using autopilot was the last straw.

It's NOT a convenience in high sec (let alone mid). That's where I got podded. I had a 12 jump run back to home at the end of my night. I stuck things on autopilot through high sec space while I got a drink or something. When I got back to the computer I'm dead and like 2 days of work in the game was gone. Screw that. How is that fun by any stretch of the imagination?

Sure you can manually warp to 0 from gate to gate and it's actually faster getting places than autopilot. But look I work all day in front of a computer and I don't feel like doing it when I get home. You have to go beyond like 5 gates and frankly that crap gets BORING. So you should be able to autopilot and do something else for a few (I'm not asking for a free pass through Sec 0 space here, but Sec .9+ ?)

I shouldn't have to sit in front of a frickin computer watching it autopilot itself for 30 minutes to get somewhere. It's an utterly retarded game concept. When left with my own thoughts the first thing that comes to mind is "I'm paying for this??".

One time I literally put things in Windowed mode and played a different game on the second monitor while I was waiting. Yeah, let that sink in... Eve sucks so bad that I had to play another game at the same time to remain entertained.

Odds are you either got suicide ganked, your corp was war decced, or your auto-pilot was not setup correctly and you went through low sec somewhere along that 12 jump journey. Either way auto-pilot is still a convenience but not a 100% insurance against getting popped. High sec is about as safe as your own neighborhood you live in but in reality anything can happen there. For example a gang of home invasion thugs breaking in and holding you hostage, etc. Sure you are safe in high sec but you are not 100% safe period and never will you be unless you decide never to undock. If that doesn't work for you then to bad. EVE isn't a game for people who like to have their hands held.

I think the contents of my cargo hold at the time where what got me. The loss of which greatly increased my dissatisfaction.

Let me tone down my original harsh statement about EVE. It has a LOT of cool things going for it. It's just not for me right now. I've got a second kid now and I can't afford the large blocks of time to do guild raids in most MMOs.

By the same token I can't play eve because sometimes I need to get up in the middle of something and go make a bottle or whatnot. I can't afford to have a ship I've been working on for weeks get blown up because the captain was off the bridge changing a diaper for a couple of minutes (captain incompetence while at the helm is acceptable ).

If the game is still alive and thriving 2 years from now we'll see.

 

[JRich]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: jRaskell
You shouldn't be putting other racial weapons on Minmatar ships. The Thrasher gives bonuses to autocannons and artie, so stick to autocannons and artie. And that pretty much goes for all Minmatar ships. It actually goes for all ships in general. Amarr ships use lasers, Gallente use rail/blasters, Minmatar use projectile. Caldari use rail/blasters as well, but they're primarily missile boats with turrets as support. So stick to Projectile weapons and missiles. You're gimping yourself fitting any other weapons to Minmatar ships. Keep your training focused on those skillsets as well until you've sufficiently mastered them to fly the ships and fittings you want.

Also, in general, don't mix ranges either. Fit all autocannons, or all artillery, and learn to maintain the proper range for the guns fitted.

thanks jR and everyone else who said this, good advice - i replaced the Thrasher I lost with another one last night and fitted all 7 turret points with 200mm autocannons, 6 with fusion ammo 1 with plasma for extra shield damage. It's pretty badass now

Originally posted by: JRich
Thrasher:

Arties in the highs
AB + shield extenders/booster in the mids
Gyros in the lows

Basic PVE setup. Just guessing though. I'm a Gallente spec'd character.

Sounds good, i haven't tried artillery yet. I currently have AB, Shield extender, shield regenerator in the mids and armor repairer + armor plating in the low. Problem now is my capacitor...the shield regen is a tech 1 "named" (yeah that made sense Vrolok) and it's powerful (for me, don't laugh), 25hp regen for 20 cap, but it drains my capacitor in probably 60 seconds

Get rid of the armor plate/rep. Fit a pair of gyrostabs in or a speed mod.

Autocannons are short range and Artillary is long range. For my Mega I fit 425mm railguns to slap targets out past 100km which helps a lot with missions since the rats can't hit me.

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin

You sound like someone that didn't get deep into it and understand Eve for what it is.
You have some skill that is going to end at a time not convenient for you? Start another skill or suck it up. I have. I say oh well 5 hours lost no big deal.
Eve isn't about grinding your skills. It is about making your way, not CCP doing it for you. You can haul goods for people / NPC station goods.
You like to play the market? Create a business character and play the market board. Do R&D. Sell your goods.

Combat is more than hitting the auto orbit at xxx distance button. You have to learn and understand transversal velocity, optimal & falloff range, target and your signature resolution, Electronic Warfare (no battleship can hope to win against specialized EW ships when it has no help to take down those EW ships), etc.
You can also learn about exploration, where you use special scan probes and astrometrics ships to find hidden asteroid belts you may not normally find in the security level
of the system your are in, or find archeological or 'hacking' sites where you use the appropriate skill to open containers that may have blueprint copies (BPC), datacores, etc, worth millions or billions.

Please get out of the habit of calling them 'quests' . They are 'missions'. They are not meant to be THE DEFACTO Eve Online experience. Some people love them for what they are,
and for what they offer. They are easy carebear ways of getting cash (salvaging level 3 and 4 missions after the fact). In a recent patch, they added more missions.
It is obvious from your post you have an outdated and ignorant view of Eve Online.

Lol no. I had two chars around 14 or 15 mil SP. One was a mini that I was actually working up both mini ships and gallente to use some of the special ops. I was already using a cruiser although I was only in a Typhoon. I was also using an Amarr for mining and hauling. I was in a good corp that was part of an alliance at the time which was only second in size to BoB and was visiting 0.0 sec with my char. I had a great setup and funny thing is, I actually only lost one rifter in battle at over a year of play time. I'm serious. Never lost another ship even in some big PVP fights. I knew at the time how to play and knew all about the transversals and othe crap. Sure, the last time I played was right after they did the Nos nerf, so it was a few years ago, but I knew and did just about everything there was to do in Eve really. Doesn't make my post any less valid then or now.

Yes, in Eve there is "some" minor differences in combat, but it breaks down to PVE versus PVP. PVP, it's all about tackling and then overwhelming the opposition. If you are new amd are actually a part of a big group doing PVP then you are a tackler. Which means your job is to fly in fast, and slow down the big targets. You basically get to do about 6 clicks of the mouse to "setup" your ship to complete your job in a PVP scenario as a new guy. It's really just sitting there and slowing them down, scramming them and rotating as fast around them as possible and hope you don't get blown to bits before your group can take them out. Yay, what fun. For a new player it's basically Space Ballet and I KNOW it's not any different today than it was back then.

As for others, sure some have some fun ships for "situations" like the dagger class spec op boats are interesting, but mostly it's about being at optimum range and pounding the target. With a few people mounting EWAR and sitting around hoping their jammers or whatever are doing enough. Yay.

As for PVE, it about have the defenses to survive anything you'll encounter and whittling away at everything thrown at you in a mission. In low level missions it's basically frigs and a couple destroyers. Maybe an occasional BC. The only "strat" involved with PVE is figuring out what defense to set up for whatever current ship you are using. For new players, this is a bit difficult as they usually don't know, but it doesn't take much to find. Ask the rookie channel and get about 3 dozen or so replies giving the same basic answer. Or you could read the forums and the plethora of stickies. But as I said, PVE is really simple because once you set up your boat defensively, every mission is fairly straight forward.

Basically, combat in Eve, whether PVE or PVP is very simple. You are limited to the boat you are using and the skills you have. But at least combat is more interesting than the other mind numbing things you can do. The only slightly fun thing to do in EVE is combat, everything else is ridiculously tedious.

Mining and hauling. Good for cash, but good gawd it's the basic concept of watching paint congeal. If you plan to mine, don't do it as a main char. Get a second account and either run multiple instances of the Eve game, or use another computer. Basically mining consists of sitting there staring at a "rock" and it doesn't matter what color or texture or whatever you are mining because they are really all the same. Then you click on the rock and wait a predetermined period of time and get a piece of candy, err mineral, for the long wait. Then you do that over and over. Spending hours on end clicking on a rock to fill a cargo hold is not exactly "fun" in any sense of the word.

Hauling is basically flying your ship constantly from point A to point B. Usually fairly long distances. So if you are hauling in this game, your play time consists of watching your ship "fly" across a pretty back drop. You don't really need to do anything. Very little interaction is required. Step one is to click warp to zero for the gate to go where you wait. Step two is to click on the gate to teleport in. Step three is to click warp to zero to the next gate. Step Four is to wait 3 to 10 minutes to reach that gate. Now constantly repeat those 4 steps. That's hauling in a nutshell. Oh what drudgerous fun.

As for the other suggestion of making stuff or playing the "market" that is pretty effing boring as well. Seriously, I don't understand how people can sit around for hours looking at the same screen of numbers and actually find that fun? I mean you literally stare the screen constantly checking numbers. It's plain stupid. Nothing more than watching an excel spreadsheet with a nice background image day in and day out. F*ck that.

Just to reiterate, the game is fun at the very beginning or at the very "end" but much of the middle is very boring. At the beginning it's fun because you are constantly getting new skills, learning new things, and doing new stuff. At the end, it's fun so long as you like PVP really and are constantly doing that while having other means of making tons of ISK to fund your PVP. Everything else in the middle is just boring.

Look, I'm not saying EVE doesn't have it's charm and good facets. I'm just brutally stating out all the flaws that existed before and still exist. You can make claims all you want that I am "out of date" but serious nothing has changed in that game except occasional graphical overhauls and tweaks to ships and equipment be they nerfs or buffs. Usually nerfs though. EVE isn't as big of a sandbox as everyone claims.

 

[TheVrolok]

Jesus. Thanks for paragraphs but damn, tl;dr.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin

Originally posted by: Canai

Originally posted by: Drift3r
This is why you pick agents and npc corps with agents that don't lead you into low sec much. Empire agents who are combat oriented will never send you more then 2 jumps away from their home system. With this knowledge you can pick a npc corp with a agent who will not send you into 0.0 space. Hint usually the most populated systems have high quality agents in prime mission running areas which may border or be surrounding by 0.5 systems but nothing lower then that.

It was one of those random Evemail story missions.

They aren't random.

Every 15 missions you get a storyline mission that raises your faction standing.

This is with a storyline agent that is the closest to you.
You need to do research and find the storyline agent that is part of the NPC corporation you want to raise standings with (lower waste on refines, jump clone use, etc).
Use both Eve Agents and Grismar's Eve Wiki, specifically the Explorer, that uses a database query style, to find storyline agents located for your needs.

Aha! That makes sense. Thanks for the links, I'm going to have to do a bit of research.

 

[SunnyD]

I'm curious, is there any way to get an account reactivated for a few days/trial week or whatnot? I'm thinking of logging in my old account to see what it's up to, but can't bring myself to actually pay for EVE.

 

[Mide]

If someone sends you an ETC then you could activate that in lieu of a CC payment....but then who would give you that for free?

 

[SunnyD]

http://myeve.eve-online.com/in...=topic&threadID=945010

The latest and greatest on why EVE sucks. Because they don't give a shit about exploits until it becomes public how little they care.

 

[ITPaladin]

I don't see how your comment relates to the EO post. They find out about an exploit, they fix it.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin
I don't see how your comment relates to the EO post. They find out about an exploit, they fix it.

... 4 years after they found out about it.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: JRich

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: jRaskell
You shouldn't be putting other racial weapons on Minmatar ships. The Thrasher gives bonuses to autocannons and artie, so stick to autocannons and artie. And that pretty much goes for all Minmatar ships. It actually goes for all ships in general. Amarr ships use lasers, Gallente use rail/blasters, Minmatar use projectile. Caldari use rail/blasters as well, but they're primarily missile boats with turrets as support. So stick to Projectile weapons and missiles. You're gimping yourself fitting any other weapons to Minmatar ships. Keep your training focused on those skillsets as well until you've sufficiently mastered them to fly the ships and fittings you want.

Also, in general, don't mix ranges either. Fit all autocannons, or all artillery, and learn to maintain the proper range for the guns fitted.

thanks jR and everyone else who said this, good advice - i replaced the Thrasher I lost with another one last night and fitted all 7 turret points with 200mm autocannons, 6 with fusion ammo 1 with plasma for extra shield damage. It's pretty badass now

Originally posted by: JRich
Thrasher:

Arties in the highs
AB + shield extenders/booster in the mids
Gyros in the lows

Basic PVE setup. Just guessing though. I'm a Gallente spec'd character.

Sounds good, i haven't tried artillery yet. I currently have AB, Shield extender, shield regenerator in the mids and armor repairer + armor plating in the low. Problem now is my capacitor...the shield regen is a tech 1 "named" (yeah that made sense Vrolok) and it's powerful (for me, don't laugh), 25hp regen for 20 cap, but it drains my capacitor in probably 60 seconds

Get rid of the armor plate/rep. Fit a pair of gyrostabs in or a speed mod.

Autocannons are short range and Artillary is long range. For my Mega I fit 425mm railguns to slap targets out past 100km which helps a lot with missions since the rats can't hit me.

What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Malladine
What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

Megathron. It's a battleship. 100km isn't nuts, in fact with the right ship and fittings, you're looking at max ranges in the 200's with optimals in the mid 100's. That's nuts.

 

[ITPaladin]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: ITPaladin
I don't see how your comment relates to the EO post. They find out about an exploit, they fix it.

... 4 years after they found out about it.

You could say the same thing about Microsoft's recent patch of a known 4-5 year exploit in XP.

Link the specific post where it states they knew about it for 4 years. I seem to recall reading something about alchemy being part of the exploit, which that skill hasn't been in the game for 4 years.

 

[ITPaladin]

Originally posted by: Malladine
What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

Megathron, Gallente bs.
Using EW on NPCs is mostly fruitless, as they do not work the same as against PCs.

 

[Riverhound777]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Malladine
What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

Megathron. It's a battleship. 100km isn't nuts, in fact with the right ship and fittings, you're looking at max ranges in the 200's with optimals in the mid 100's. That's nuts.

Ahh yes, 1-shotting frigs at 200+km with my 1400mm IIs was always fun. Man I'm starting to miss eve. I left about 2 years ago with 40+mill skillpoints.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin

Originally posted by: Malladine
What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

Megathron, Gallente bs.
Using EW on NPCs is mostly fruitless, as they do not work the same as against PCs.

fruitless? i'd call not being able to target them at all fruitless, the ew is kinda key. How does it work differently against players?

and i meant 100km is nuts, for me, haha.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: ITPaladin

Originally posted by: Malladine
What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

Megathron, Gallente bs.
Using EW on NPCs is mostly fruitless, as they do not work the same as against PCs.

fruitless? i'd call not being able to target them at all fruitless, the ew is kinda key. How does it work differently against players?

and i meant 100km is nuts, for me, haha.

As a min with the rifter I believe you can get optimal range out to something like 70km. Of course that's a LOT of skills to get there. ~50km is more than plenty for NPC ratting.

 

[ITPaladin]

It works differently in that EW modules don't affect them well enough to lose a slot, especially if you haven't trained the appropriate EW skills high to make it more effective. The best place EW mods belong is on an EW ship.
Just ask on the Eve forums how effective is using EW mods vs rats.
This is one advantage Gallente have in missions: Drones.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin
It works differently in that EW modules don't affect them well enough to lose a slot, especially if you haven't trained the appropriate EW skills high to make it more effective. The best place EW mods belong is on an EW ship.
Just ask on the Eve forums how effective is using EW mods vs rats.
This is one advantage Gallente have in missions: Drones.

Yeah, i've yet to try drones out.
That makes sense, but not affecting them well depends on the players' ECM capabilites right?
As far as my ECCM effectiveness against rats goes...like i said it's the difference between completing the mission and not. Yeah it's taking a med. power slot, but nothing else I put there is going to allow me to destroy them.

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: ITPaladin

Originally posted by: Malladine
What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

Megathron, Gallente bs.
Using EW on NPCs is mostly fruitless, as they do not work the same as against PCs.

fruitless? i'd call not being able to target them at all fruitless, the ew is kinda key. How does it work differently against players?

and i meant 100km is nuts, for me, haha.

As a min with the rifter I believe you can get optimal range out to something like 70km. Of course that's a LOT of skills to get there. ~50km is more than plenty for NPC ratting.

Interesting. My tactics have so far been to use shield and armor regeneration to allow me to get close, under 7km, and unleash my autocannons. That and the one missile launcher I have that can start @ 20km Once I'm within range even very high threat pirates don't stand too long. Guessing that doesn't work against players so well

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: ITPaladin

Originally posted by: Malladine
What's the mega? cruiser? 100km is nuts.
I ended up with a ECCM Ladar unit last night, the damn npc pirates on my missions kept jamming me!! got em anyway, and the armor repairer saves me a lot of ISK right now, I regularly take serious hits to my armor which amounts to 20-70k repair bills. Now free

Megathron, Gallente bs.
Using EW on NPCs is mostly fruitless, as they do not work the same as against PCs.

fruitless? i'd call not being able to target them at all fruitless, the ew is kinda key. How does it work differently against players?

and i meant 100km is nuts, for me, haha.

As a min with the rifter I believe you can get optimal range out to something like 70km. Of course that's a LOT of skills to get there. ~50km is more than plenty for NPC ratting.

Interesting. My tactics have so far been to use shield and armor regeneration to allow me to get close, under 7km, and unleash my autocannons. That and the one missile launcher I have that can start @ 20km Once I'm within range even very high threat pirates don't stand too long. Guessing that doesn't work against players so well

It will work okay provided (what I said a few days ago) you can warp into range quickly, and you have warp scramblers, webifiers and a microwarp drive to get into position quickly.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Malladine
Interesting. My tactics have so far been to use shield and armor regeneration to allow me to get close, under 7km, and unleash my autocannons. That and the one missile launcher I have that can start @ 20km Once I'm within range even very high threat pirates don't stand too long. Guessing that doesn't work against players so well

It will work okay provided (what I said a few days ago) you can warp into range quickly, and you have warp scramblers, webifiers and a microwarp drive to get into position quickly.

Might go for that with a cruiser when I have the isk!
Or perhaps i'll wait til I can afford a battlecruiser. That's the next step right?

 

[ITPaladin]

What I and another person were meaning when making side remark about you using shield and armor tanking is:

Don't do it. You are decreasing your effectiveness.

Use one or the other, what ever your racial advantages are. I don't know much about Minmatar.

Gallente are armor tankers 99% of the time. The Myrmidon can be shield tanked because of all the low and mid slots. If your ships have a bonus to armor or shield tanking, then you should be using that skill.

 

[Malladine]

yeah, understood, don't mix +shield and +armor on the same ship because you're likely going to be half as effective in both.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Malladine
Interesting. My tactics have so far been to use shield and armor regeneration to allow me to get close, under 7km, and unleash my autocannons. That and the one missile launcher I have that can start @ 20km Once I'm within range even very high threat pirates don't stand too long. Guessing that doesn't work against players so well

It will work okay provided (what I said a few days ago) you can warp into range quickly, and you have warp scramblers, webifiers and a microwarp drive to get into position quickly.

Might go for that with a cruiser when I have the isk!
Or perhaps i'll wait til I can afford a battlecruiser. That's the next step right?

I loved my battle cruiser (Caldari). In fact I believe my old account has both - the Drake had just come out a month or so before I quit. Battlecruisers are nice, but they're a hefty investment. Honestly, depending on what you want to do - I'd say skip BC until you train up Battleships. You have to sink a lot of points into the BC skill to make it super-effective, though it is worth it in some cases. A tier 3 cruiser is generally "almost" as nice as a battlecruiser, and honestly if you're going to sink time into skilling up, get yourself into a battleship.

Your bread'n'butter ship though should probably be a mid-range cruiser. Not too expensive, not costly to lose. Battlecruisers (last I knew) bordered on cost vs. insurance tradeoffs, meaning you'll tend to lose money no matter what even if it's insured.

A mid-range cruiser is cheap enough to lose without breaking the bank, so you won't feel bad if you're ganked along the way somewhere. That and they're powerful enough to run most missions without too much trouble. Best bang-for-the-buck.