Ever seen a business close due to being unable to find employees?

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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,851
13,792
146
I'd never take a job where they expect me to be on call after work hours, that's just insane that some employers expect that.
Early in my career I was a contractor working at a job I loved that included being on call. I didn’t love being on call but it was a sacrifice I was willing to make. (It also helped that being called in was due to a real need and not because I had a workaholic boss who had a ‘brilliant’ idea at 10:00PM on a Friday night)

After 7-8 years and a growing family, being on-call and working nights and weekends on a semi-frequent basis for less as a contractor became less desirable even though I still loved the job. So I quit and went to a different contractor and a different position for a raise.

Turned out my old group ended up so shorthanded that they offered me a direct hire position to comeback at an equivalent amount to my new higher salary and would have more job mobility.

To me that was worth it, so I put up with it for another 3-4 years before taking advantage of the job mobility. Now I’ve been on call about once in the last 10 years.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,161
136
I worked construction as a crane operator. I was always willing to stay on the job one minute longer than they were willing to pay me for...no more. For most of my career, I worked 50 hour weeks, but 60 hours was preferable to me. I worked 7-12s for months at a time...with my average commute of 4 hours per day, that made for long weeks. I'd usually take a week or two off following a job like that.

That’s not the flex you think it is. In fact I’m guessing most feel sorry for you more than anything.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,440
11,767
136
That’s not the flex you think it is. In fact I’m guessing most feel sorry for you more than anything.

Why? Most of the extra hours were voluntary...I generally had the option of not taking the dispatch from the union hall...or of turning down the employer when they called and offered...but construction tends to be "feast or famine." This year, I might work 3000 hours, next year, maybe 2000...or 1500. I almost always worked all the hours I could get...
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,719
25,063
136
Why? Most of the extra hours were voluntary...I generally had the option of not taking the dispatch from the union hall...or of turning down the employer when they called and offered...but construction tends to be "feast or famine." This year, I might work 3000 hours, next year, maybe 2000...or 1500. I almost always worked all the hours I could get...
Makes sense
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,784
2,336
136
Extra hours are bullshit if you work salary (no overtime). A bit of crunch time right at the end of a project...ok. Weeks or months of crunch time, not ok. That's called bad planning and taking advantage of people. And we are talking non-union workplaces, so all it takes are a couple of young guns without families to say "sure I'll be happy to give up my life for weeks!" and the rest of us look like assholes for not being "team players."

In the long run, companies that pull this will lose people good enough to move on somewhere that doesn't pull this crap. So it's not a benefit even if you save money in the short term. If they pay so much more that it ends up the same on average, then maybe...but some of us value having a life and are willing to leave money on the table to have one.

Same mentality when big execs call out rank and file to fix the network at their house for free (something I've seen a number of times). Cheap bastards who treat people like disposable assets.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
Extra hours are bullshit if you work salary. A bit of crunch time right at the end of a project...ok.
Nope it's still not okay at the end of a project. It's only okay if you are getting paid your hourly rate for those extra hours.

As you said, it's a result of piss poor planning. And it's typically piss poor planning from people not doing the actual work, it's higher ups who set unrealistic deadlines. There is no way the one doing the ground work should be the one taking the fall for that by working for free.

People are too scared though because they look at companies doing them favors by giving them a job and will be walked all over.

About 6-7 years into my career I totally changed my mentality from that way into me being the one doing the company a favor for working for them. They aren't helping me out by giving me a job. I am helping them out by working for them. For that, I demand a certain salary and if you won't give it to me, then I'm not working for you.

And since then, my salary has nearly gone up about 5x from my starting salary out of school.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
Nope it's still not okay at the end of a project. It's only okay if you are getting paid your hourly rate for those extra hours.

As you said, it's a result of piss poor planning. And it's typically piss poor planning from people not doing the actual work, it's higher ups who set unrealistic deadlines. There is no way the one doing the ground work should be the one taking the fall for that by working for free.

People are too scared though because they look at companies doing them favors by giving them a job and will be walked all over.

About 6-7 years into my career I totally changed my mentality from that way into me being the one doing the company a favor for working for them. They aren't helping me out by giving me a job. I am helping them out by working for them. For that, I demand a certain salary and if you won't give it to me, then I'm not working for you.

And since then, my salary has nearly gone up about 5x from my starting salary out of school.
Salaried positions are inherently that way though as you're paid to accomplish a job, not paid to work for a set number of hours.

I think anyone accepting a salaried position should expect to work late at least once in a great while. I do agree if this is a common thing though that is either poor planning or a shitty boss.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,131
6,001
136
People are too scared though because they look at companies doing them favors by giving them a job and will be walked all over.
Which is why homelessness will never be solved in the US. It's there to scare the shit out of you and keep you obedient since it's so easy to fall into it in a nation where 36% of the jobs are now crap gig work like Doordash. That kind of shit makes even the most soul crushing jobs of ten years ago like Walmart look half decent in comparison.
 
Reactions: Drach and Fenixgoon

nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,900
1,919
136
Salaried positions are inherently that way though as you're paid to accomplish a job, not paid to work for a set number of hours.

I think anyone accepting a salaried position should expect to work late at least once in a great while. I do agree if this is a common thing though that is either poor planning or a shitty boss.

My salaried contract actually has my working hours on it (7-4) and it mentions not working weekends. I mostly will skip lunch when I am busy, rather than stay late. I try not to get into the habit of it, otherwise it becomes expected behavior. Around here some people think busting your butt by working longer makes them more valuable to the company. My experience is that everyone is expendable.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
Salaried positions are inherently that way though as you're paid to accomplish a job, not paid to work for a set number of hours.

I think anyone accepting a salaried position should expect to work late at least once in a great while. I do agree if this is a common thing though that is either poor planning or a shitty boss.
I mean, that's just not true. I am paid my salary based on an hourly rate and working for 2080 hours a year. That is how my salary was determined.

If I'm to work 2081 hours a year, I am getting paid or I'm not working.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
I mean, that's just not true. I am paid my salary based on an hourly rate and working for 2080 hours a year. That is how my salary was determined.

If I'm to work 2081 hours a year, I am getting paid or I'm not working.
Then you are paid an hourly rate, not a salaried rate.

By the way contrary to popular opinion hourly rates are way better than salaried positions for exactly this reason! If you work more you get paid more.
 
Reactions: IronWing

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,071
7,495
136
Now you've met a 57 year old with zero regrets about anything in life. Your metric for success is a miserable little withered up version from my POV. Things don't make me happy, the people I love make me happy. My experiences make me happy. Getting up when I want. Cooking because I enjoy it. Playing with my new kitten while shitposting with you lot. Just about anything makes me happier than having to go be around some workbots like yourself. Tricked into thinking of success as material possessions and job titles.

-Now I know why @DAPUNISHER seems to be on 24/7 ready to lay the smackdown on anyone and everyone.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,071
7,495
136
This thread is now about all the cool shit we could be doing instead of being wageslaves.

- I want to kayak the Colorado river (like, the whole goddamn thing and camp along the way, sort of like Powell did with less having everyone around you die).

- I want to experience a Hurricane, and I want to see a Tornado.

-I need to learn an instrument. I keep starting, then life and exhaustion keep getting in the way.

-I want to participate in a protest. Like a proper one with tear gas and shit.

There is more but that is all for now.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,978
2,582
136
I was barely raised at all to be honest. I realized as a young kid that if I wanted to eat, survive, I had to work my ass off.
You mean just like most kids of your generation, the millenials, and the last couple years of Generation X? The very ones who you are calling lazy, as if you are uncommon and unique? I have news for you, you are among the majorty, not the minority.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,667
12,783
146
You mean just like most kids of your generation, the millenials, and the last couple years of Generation X? The very ones who you are calling lazy, as if you are uncommon and unique? I have news for you, you are among the majorty, not the minority.
He also doesn't realize that's just a trauma response, and he's playing it out the way most people who go through the same thing do. It's cliché and frankly boring.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,850
21,653
146
We also know why @DAPUNISHER is good at cool interesting shit like fighting and not corporate boring garbage that no one cares about.

"Dude. Why is this guy always beating everything up?"

Hurricanes are not fun. Worrying your house is going to get Wizard of OZ'd is horribly stressful. Same for Tornadoes. Which we have also had very close to the house due to Hurricanes.

I have never kayaked white water, but surfing storm swells will get the blood pumping. This is a few miles from where we paddled out that Halloween.


You've already played an instrument; the skin flute.

You have also protested. Don't tell me you never had to fight...for your right... to paarrrrty!
 
Reactions: GodisanAtheist

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,604
29,321
136
This thread is now about all the cool shit we could be doing instead of being wageslaves.

- I want to kayak the Colorado river (like, the whole goddamn thing and camp along the way, sort of like Powell did with less having everyone around you die).

- I want to experience a Hurricane, and I want to see a Tornado.

-I need to learn an instrument. I keep starting, then life and exhaustion keep getting in the way.

-I want to participate in a protest. Like a proper one with tear gas and shit.

There is more but that is all for now.
- Two chicks at the same time.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,978
2,582
136
I can't reply to each person saying this, but I have no more trouble finding employees than anyone else in my industry. Most of our staff actually reached out to us. Knowing full well that they have to work hard, but get paid well also. Thankfully, I'm an industry where I can raise my rates directly in proportion of salary.

I made this post because I feel bad for all of the small independent shops I see closing down who don't have those kinds of margins. They can't just raise pay to $30/hr for low skilled labor, because their customers will just go to wal mart instead. Meanwhile we have large segments of the population who resort to living in their parents basement, refusing to work unless it's full WFH and 6 figures. With some useless degree and 3-400k in student loan debt they should've never taken out.

I think we are going to see some real repercussions of this in our lifetime, as these kids hit mid late 30's with zero skills and zero work history. Just holding out for "fair wage". Everyone nowadays wants to walk out of college into this utopia of a job that doesn't exist, and unfortunately their boomers parents aren't forcing them to get a job and be productive, and learn marketable skills.[/B]

BOLD: That statements is telling.. if you actualy paid more than your competitors, as you believe, you wouldn't be having simular troubles as your competition, you woldn't be having any troubles at all. But you admit, you have no more troubles than your competition, which indicates that you do not pay any better than your competition, as your troubles in finding employees are simular. I don't know how you "think" the job seaking, hiring process works, but 99.9% of all positions are filled by people seaking employment.. aka, by reaching out to companies, including yours, summitting their resume, and/or application, in hopes of gaining employement. That's how it works for every business in every industry.

The old "they can't raise prices because they will just go somewhere else" line.. that is the preverbial bullshit fear tactic line.. guess what, that is 100% bullshit. If a company has quality products and services, the company will strive along with their employees. The ones that believe that fear tactic bullshit are the very ones who go bankrupt and don't survive, and/or they do raise prices, but offer a substandard product or service, which has nothing to do with wages if the pay is appropriate. I took over running a company that was on the verge of bankruptcy. The owners where afraid to raise prices, and chose not to increase wages even though they had exceptional products and services, which is why they where on the verge of bankruptcy. They where watching their competition who where doing the same thing slowly go out of business around them. What did I do, I raised prices, and increased wages as they tried to object. But they had nothing else to lose. Over the 15 years I ran that company, they stayed lucrative, business increased, and they survived as they watched their competition close up shop. They strived as those around them went bankrupt. The claim "you can only charge what the market can bare" is a bullshit ideology if you are not charging enough to cover your costs, and a fair profit margine, you are at fault, not the market.

You are right, we are going to see a change.. we are going to see the job market revert back to where people are actualy paid for a fair days pay for a fair days work, as everyone's time is equally valuable, and not just based on a title, or some imaginary belief that there are jobs that require no skill, so they shouldnt be paid a decent wage. Every job requires skill, every job in this world is important to society. And no company should be making huge profits off the backs of low paid labor.
 
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Reactions: ivwshane

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,978
2,582
136
I have managers who are much younger than me. I’m good with it. I tried supervising and it sucks. It isn’t particularly difficult it’s just annoying as hell. So I stick to doing the job I enjoy and managers leave me alone to do it; everyone is happy.
Managers are just glorified baby sitters.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,131
6,001
136
- Two chicks at the same time.
It's a little overrated since there is always one you like better than the other and wanna fuck a lot harder. Except for getting head from two bitches at once, that shit's pretty good. But main event is better with one girl.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,131
6,001
136
- I want to experience a Hurricane, and I want to see a Tornado.
Most of the list is great but tornados are scary as shit. When I was a kid I had one hit my house while my brother, parents, dog, and I were huddled up in the hallway with the doors closed so as not to get by flying glass. Heard my parents' bedroom window get taken out by a flurry of hail and then felt all the air being sucked out from under all the doors and up through the attic and thought I was dead right then. The air being sucked up through the attic snapped the piece of sheet rock that was the 'door' to the attic but got off pretty easy. Tore off a bunch of shingles so my dad I and I just redid the entire roof, pulled the power box of the wall, took down a tree, and ripped a huge branch off another, but all in all we came out OK. Neighbor across the alley had a tree pulled up and pushed into his living room so a lot of damage but no one got hurt thankfully. Scary as hell though, especially since it happened about 9-10PM.

Hurricane Harvey was pretty scary too since we were forecast to have around 25 inches of rain as it stalled out over San Antonio and saw the first squall lines coming in and they were pretty intense with 60-70 mph winds and about 20 minutes of biblical rain, but then the thing turned right back around and went into the gulf. Good for me but sucked for Houston since it literally parked itself in the gulf outside Houston and dropped 52 inches there.
 
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