Ex-coworker hanged himself

[kache]

No, you can't just redefine words as you see fit.

Killing terrorists is not murder, it's doing the right thing (unless they surrender in which case they should be arrested).

Murder is the unlawful taking of a life (intentional), killing enemies as a soldier isn't unlawful. If the enemies are terrorists then killing them is commendable since terrorists are indeed murderers per definition.

See, we have our soldiers and they have their combatants, we fight each other and so far so good but with terrorists the main goal isn't to fight us, their main goal is to indiscriminately kill our civilians.

It doesn't matter what the nationality of the soldier is, a soldier doing his job is not a murderer.

Right or wrong is entirely up to the individual person to decide. Afterall, the families of those killed terrorists think that the wrong one is you. They just wanted to convert you to islam, no?
Interpretations aside, a murderer is someone who kills another being, in this case a human being.
Whether that is right or wrong it's for every human being to decide for himself.
And whether that's legal or illegal depends on the country it was done in. But what are laws if not x amount of powerful people agreeing on what's right and what's wrong?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Right or wrong is entirely up to the individual person to decide. Afterall, the families of those killed terrorists think that the wrong one is you. They just wanted to convert you to islam, no?

It is most definitely not up to the individual to decide, are you fucking insane?

It's well regulated by international law.

Interpretations aside, a murderer is someone who kills another being, in this case a human being.
Whether that is right or wrong it's for every human being to decide for himself.
And whether that's legal or illegal depends on the country it was done in. But what are laws if not x amount of powerful people agreeing on what's right and what's wrong?

It fucking doesn't matter what nation it is in, murder is STILL the unlawful taking of a human life.

Killing another human being in self defense or an enemy combatant in war isn't murder in any sane human beings life.

I won't discuss further with you because you're clearly 12 years old and drunk or have the mental capacity of a drunk 12 year old.

 

[kache]

It is most definitely not up to the individual to decide, are you fucking insane?

It's well regulated by international law.



It fucking doesn't matter what nation it is in, murder is STILL the unlawful taking of a human life.

Killing another human being in self defense or an enemy combatant in war isn't murder in any sane human beings life.

I won't discuss further with you because you're clearly 12 years old and drunk or have the mental capacity of a drunk 12 year old.

And you're so clearly mindwashed by the society you live in that you're not capable of individual reasoning.
So, yeah, we're kinda incompatible.

 

[kache]

Actually that was a statement of facts up until "i believe" which obviously is what i believe.

And no, i put children in front of the child abusers (whoever they may be) which is something EVERY sane human being should do. You'd do well to use your evolved empathy to empathize with the children rather than their abuser.

And what would jailing the guy who 20 years ago abused a child while drunk achieve?
It wouldn't make the act disappear, because you can't change the past.
It wouldn't make him a better person, since the current jails only make people better criminals.
It wouldn't re-educate him, since he himself already did that on his own with the AA volu teering work. He was perfectly aware of what he did, and he regretted it.
It wouldn't avoid him repearing the act, because there is no risk of that in the first place (plus, again, prison just making better criminals).
What fucking purpose would jailing him for something he did 20 years ago, when he was a completely different person, both mentally and biologically, achieve?

 

[AreaCode707]

And what would jailing the guy who 20 years ago abused a child while drunk achieve?
It wouldn't make the act disappear, because you can't change the past.
It wouldn't make him a better person, since the current jails only make people better criminals.
It wouldn't re-educate him, since he himself already did that on his own with the AA volu teering work. He was perfectly aware of what he did, and he regretted it.
It wouldn't avoid him repearing the act, because there is no risk of that in the first place (plus, again, prison just making better criminals).
What fucking purpose would jailing him for something he did 20 years ago, when he was a completely different person, both mentally and biologically, achieve?

You have no way of knowing whether the discovered incident of abuse was isolated to 20 years ago or still ongoing. You would be putting activity into motion that would safeguard current children, and help bring validation, closure and possibly justice to the original victim.

 

[AreaCode707]

What if that has happed BEFORE the marriage?

It should still be reported to the proper authorities. The act of getting married does not dissolve the heinousness of a past crime like murder or child abuse.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

And what would jailing the guy who 20 years ago abused a child while drunk achieve?
It wouldn't make the act disappear, because you can't change the past.
It wouldn't make him a better person, since the current jails only make people better criminals.
It wouldn't re-educate him, since he himself already did that on his own with the AA volu teering work. He was perfectly aware of what he did, and he regretted it.
It wouldn't avoid him repearing the act, because there is no risk of that in the first place (plus, again, prison just making better criminals).
What fucking purpose would jailing him for something he did 20 years ago, when he was a completely different person, both mentally and biologically, achieve?

The children would get resolution as their abuser gets punished for his crimes.

We're a society of laws (you only have Europe specified but since you live in a nation in Europe you live in a society of laws just like me) where we punish those who commit crimes against others.

If you don't believe in laws or punishments for crimes then that is ok, it is irrelevant though since you live in a society that does.

 

[AreaCode707]

Amoral is relative. A man can be a murderer (=soldiers) im outside life, and a loving father and husband in family.

Amoral is not relative. Leaving your soldier example aside, since JoS already demolished that, a murderer who is a loving father and family man is still a bad person who deserves none of the happiness he has, having stolen that happiness and good life from others. You can have a 1,000 gallon tank of water and one gallon of sewage contaminates it. Similarly there are acts that are so filthy that they contaminate an otherwise good life.

 

[kache]

You have no way of knowing whether the discovered incident of abuse was isolated to 20 years ago or still ongoing. You would be putting activity into motion that would safeguard current children, and help bring validation, closure and possibly justice to the original victim.

And wouls ruin the entire life (that's nearly 90 yrs, current statistics) of a person for a mistake he did long time ago while drunk...

 

[kache]

It should still be reported to the proper authorities. The act of getting married does not dissolve the heinousness of a past crime like murder or child abuse.

No, but it allows it to be a secret shared by 2 people, instead of a burden weighting down 1.

"I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life."

 

[kache]

The children would get resolution as their abuser gets punished for his crimes.

We're a society of laws (you only have Europe specified but since you live in a nation in Europe you live in a society of laws just like me) where we punish those who commit crimes against others.

If you don't believe in laws or punishments for crimes then that is ok, it is irrelevant though since you live in a society that does.

Fixed. Since I am always travelling I didn't know what country to write.

Amoral is not relative. Leaving your soldier example aside, since JoS already demolished that, a murderer who is a loving father and family man is still a bad person who deserves none of the happiness he has, having stolen that happiness and good life from others. You can have a 1,000 gallon tank of water and one gallon of sewage contaminates it. Similarly there are acts that are so filthy that they contaminate an otherwise good life.

A gallon tank whose water is changed completely every 7 years...

It's not like I don't believe in laws, but I can't put up with ruining a person's life now for something he did ages ago, when he wasn't the person he is now.

 

[Circlenaut]

No, it's really not. Being alone isn't the same as being lonely.

Bingo. Alone is a state of being, loneliness is a state of mind.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

And wouls ruin the entire life (that's nearly 90 yrs, current statistics) of a person for a mistake he did long time ago while drunk...

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time is a saying that seems awfully apt here.

Being drunk isn't an excuse for ANYTHING.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

No, but it allows it to be a secret shared by 2 people, instead of a burden weighting down 1.

"I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life."

Not by two people, by those two and all the children, some of which have a ruined life because of him.

But you seem to forget that those children were his victims, probably because it's hard to argue that he shouldn't be punished if you consider that his innocent victims already have been punished for a lifetime by him for no reason what so ever aside from him wanting to hurt them.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Fixed. Since I am always travelling I didn't know what country to write.

Then you are in a society of laws which you will adhere by or be punished accordingly. I'm English.

A gallon tank whose water is changed completely every 7 years...

It's not like I don't believe in laws, but I can't put up with ruining a person's life now for something he did ages ago, when he wasn't the person he is now.

No, it's never changed because the act doesn't disappear, these children will have to live with it their entire lives.

Ever considered that some of those children may have committed suicide because they couldn't live with what he had done to them? We don't know that, of course, but it's not far fetched either.

No forgiveness can be had until the punishment is served, such are the laws of all civilised nations, you pay your debt to society and then but ONLY then are you free.

 

[AreaCode707]

And wouls ruin the entire life (that's nearly 90 yrs, current statistics) of a person for a mistake he did long time ago while drunk...

Yeah. When you molest a child, you completely and entirely forfeit your right to a normal happy life. You are subject to the penalties society has decided fit your crime.

You keep talking about this like it's a past event. For a victim of molestation, this is something they will live with every day for the rest of their life. It can prevent them from having normal romantic or other close relationships, sexual relationships, feeling safe at home, feeling safe with family, etc.

Save your sympathy for the falsely accused; they deserve all the sympathy they can get. Sympathize with those that have served their time and reformed and yet may never have a chance at a reasonable life, if you want to be in defense of something controversial. Don't sympathize with someone who raped a defenseless innocent child for their own sick pleasure and has never even had to admit to it or make any type of reparation to society or their victim. Those people are flat out evil; that action is not an accident that can be dismissed. It is an incomprehensibly selfish act by someone who is demonstrating their complete inability to exist in society with even the most basic adherence to right or wrong.

 

[AreaCode707]

No, but it allows it to be a secret shared by 2 people, instead of a burden weighting down 1.

"I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life."

Some secrets should not be secret. Period. You can love someone and still not want them to get away with the horrific. If you will stand by your spouse in good times and in bad and they are a child molester, report them, testify against them, and then wait out their prison sentence while remaining faithful to them and moving your home so they can live with you when they get out, and then follow them carefully and loyally so they are never alone with children again and you can help them guard against any possible recurrence of the behavior.

Don't help them hide their illness. If you love someone you do whatever you can to help them get better. Pedophilia is a straight up sickness, something is WRONG with your spouse. You do whatever you have to to fix that, including sending them to jail.

This is why even medical professionals can break confidentiality, I believe, to report a circumstance of child abuse.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

*hung

:thumbsup:

 

[z0mb13]

Wow this thread really developed into something else.. Ok I'll guess ill take a bite and join the discussion

The reason why this one particular case really got to me is not only because he was my ex-coworker, but also because I can probably relate to the feelings that drove him to make this decision.

My company is a really tough place to work for. The industry that we are in really reward performers and penalizes underperformers (think invesntment banking equivalent industry). So good performers really have big egos, while underperformers or people that think their true potential is higher can be really stressed and depressed.

I myself was in really deep depression in the middle of this year. I really thought that this career was not for me and was ready to quit in AUgust. But good thing my wife is very supportive and gave me different perspective altogether: whats the worst thing that could matter? If I lost my job, I can still find other jobs just from the fact that I graduated from a top tier university in the US. Also we had no mortgage because we own our apartment. So I stuck in there, and lo and behold actually my performance was not as bad as I thought it was. The learning curve for this job is very high, especially for someone like me that did not come from a banking background previously. My bosses commended my performance and since then I felt SO much better about myself and my career has improved tremendously since.

So again this goes back to the point that if you ever contemplate suicide or ever feel heavily depressed (stressed and depressed are two different things entirely), you should really put your situation in perspective and for gods sake TALK to someone about your problems!!! chances are your current situation is temporary and if you look at things from a different angle, you will be happy about urself.

There is a saying: "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

I couldn't agree more.